Changed my views on Homosexuality

[ATraveller]

Love doesn’t mean condone which is the conflation we often see.
If a Christian is in persistent sin, in this case engaging in homosexual sexual activity, excommunication is a possibility if the evidence shows repentance hasn’t occurred.

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings,
Before Abraham started a new covenant w God, at Gods persuasion, there was paganism or nothing… Homosexuality was common but smaller than Heterosexuals. (Guess). The Sumarians, Greeks and Romans were “available.” Each society started a marital state and “family” concept.
So, I find it interesting that in this New Covenant made, Homosexuality is forbidden. God gives us SELF CONTROL to overcome sin.
Think of a tapestry or Quilt. God is not the Author of Confusion but a Sound mind.
His tapestry would be smooth. The quilt a neat pattern. Homosexuality would be scattered chaos and Knots. It’s interesting about the Tapistry. A beautiful pattern on the front(a successful life) is loaded w Knots and chaos on the back. It’s meaning is,in every life, problems will come.
There is a ministry of Mary, concerning troubled marriages. One prays to Mary, the Untier of the Knots.
Read my past threads. I discuss possible physical reasons (medical) for Homosexuality.
We don’t believe in Incarnation, but I discuss how that could influence us.
This thought comes through me…Who do you allow to define HAPPY! We are commanded to love ourselves, our neighbors and God. The beauty of marriage and family is offered. Sex in marriage is a wonder. Sometimes it feels Holy. Don’t laugh too long here. Sex is for procreation. Pope John Paul II stated,”It is OK to enjoy sex in marriage.” THANK YOU! Were we suppose to stop sharing a marital bed after menopause? Tell that to a guy. God created man and understands.
Then, ERD!! Bad joke. Find humor, in whatever you can! Respectful humor.
We can paint the image God wants in our mind. That is Happy and fulfilled. Holding your children. Raising them in Godly ways. It’s a wonder. Painful at times, but a wonder.
Now, Satan runs amok on the earth. He started the lie w sexual freedoms and perversions. Even for a married couple, Fifty Shades of Grey ain’t allowed. I never read the book or saw the movie. I was told about some of it and saw trailers. The marital bed can have some variety as far as positions and lingerie. But, I’m not sure looking for the biggest earthquake is for a Christian couple(?). Pornography is a NONO on so many level. That is someone’s daughter or son! There soul is in jeopardy. A normal woman or man cannot compete w those bodies. One would feel dissatisfied in his own bed w that for competition. Our bodies are TEMPLES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!
As the population increases and openness in this area, we need to love them and ask them,”Is this worth your death,in body and soul,for a thrill?
Or register your loving concern for their soul.
Political correctness won’t help.
I gotta go
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice

 

[ConstantLearner]

I still don’t know how God could allow an innocent child to be born with a predisposition to homosexuality if He considers the inclination that might arise from that to be disordered. If I thought that that were the case, I would indeed think God is rather cruel. How can He punish someone for something He made possible.

The same way he can allow an innocent baby to be born with spina bifida or a harelip or a hole in his or her heart or a predisposition to debilitating anxiety or depression. The same way he can allow an innocent child to suffer horribly and die of cancer, never having had a carefree day of play like most children. I don’t know why he allows it, but he does. It happens every day, and it makes homosexuality seem mild by comparison.

 

[ConstantLearner]

If a Christian is in persistent sin, in this case engaging in homosexual sexual activity, excommunication is a possibility if the evidence shows repentance hasn’t occurred.

All that shows me is that the Catholic Church is not loving, but elitist. It would bother me greatly if I thought that were truly the case, but thanks to a loving Pope Francis, I do not believe what you wrote. I believe you think it, but I, myself, do not believe Rome thinks in this unloving, exclusionary manner.

As I wrote in an earlier post: Jesus did not say, “except homosexuals.” He excluded no one.

 

[ATraveller]

It isn’t elitist. It’s a simple incontrovertible fact.
I’m not Catholic but I have some knowledge of the Bible since I’m a Protestant. Concerning unrepentant attitudes and communion:

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. -1 Cor 11:27

There’s a reason many Catholics have expressed the view they would like to see more Catholics go to confession before partaking in Communion.
Jesus never excluded but He called on all to repent and focus on living lives that honour what God has ordained. One only has to read Mt 22:37-39. That’s the full context not the cherry-picking method some use.

 

[theCardinalbird]

I still don’t know how God could allow an innocent child to be born with a predisposition to homosexuality

Is it scientifically proven people are born that way?

How can He punish someone for something He made possible.

The fall, which caused sin to come into this world, which caused this attraction, was not made by God, but by our earliest ancestors disobedience.

 

[Thorolfr]

The fall, which caused sin to come into this world, which caused this attraction, was not made by God, but by our earliest ancestors disobedience.

If God is truly omnipotent, then that doesn’t mean He can’t do anything to prevent innocent children from dying of disease or prevent people from dying of hunger. Or, are you suggesting that ever since the Fall, God is just sitting back with a completely hands off approach to what’s happening on earth?

 

[Thorolfr]

ATraveller:

If a Christian is in persistent sin, in this case engaging in homosexual sexual activity, excommunication is a possibility if the evidence shows repentance hasn’t occurred.

All that shows me is that the Catholic Church is not loving, but elitist. It would bother me greatly if I thought that were truly the case, but thanks to a loving Pope Francis, I do not believe what you wrote. I believe you think it, but I, myself, do not believe Rome thinks in this unloving, exclusionary manner.

As I wrote in an earlier post: Jesus did not say, “except homosexuals.” He excluded no one.

I don’t think that someone would be excommunicated for being an unrepentant and active homosexual. As an article on excommunication at vaticon.com says:

Excommunication is a rarely used punishment to discipline those who seriously violate the church’s rules especially those who (as per the Vatican Council I) are accused of “spreading division and confusion among the faithful”.

http://www.vatican.com/articles/info/excommunication_in_the_roman_catholic_church-a1113

 

[ATraveller]

I’ll let the Catholic Magisterium decide on their matters. And I did state excommunication is a possibility. I didn’t state it was instant and something done like automated manufacturing.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. -1 Cor 11:27

That has nothing to do with homosexuality, but unworthiness in general:

1 Corinthians 11:27 - Bible Verse Meaning and Commentary

What does 1 Corinthians 11:27 mean? Read commentary on this popular Bible verse and understand the real meaning behind God's Word using John Gill's Exposition of the Bible.

www.biblestudytools.com

And, you have to remember that the Bible was written for first century Jews. The Catholic Church does not follow the guidelines of first century Judaism.

 

[F_Marturana]

No one is saying to not show compassion or philial love towards a homosexual.

Homosexual activity is not permitted, because all sexual acts need to be ordered towards the unitive and procreative.

The attraction in itself isn’t a sin.

 

[ConstantLearner]

The attraction in itself isn’t a sin.

No, it’s not, and I don’t believe the act is. I’d rather be around a loving homosexual than a nasty heterosexual ANY DAY. And all the homosexuals I’ve known have been loving, kind people. Some of the unmarried ones can be melodramatic, but still, nice.

 

[ConstantLearner]

I’ll let the Catholic Magisterium decide on their matters. And I did state excommunication is a possibility. I didn’t state it was instant and something done like automated manufacturing.

Well, yes, that’s true,you’re right, but excommunication is automatic if a divorced and remarried person takes Holy Communion without obtaining an annulment. And there are other things that can cause one to be excommunicated.

 

[ATraveller]

Unworthiness is a catch-all term for all sorts of sins. If someone is partying too hard and getting drunk on purpose, he or she would be unworthy too. No one is saying someone has same-sex attractions is unworthy. What is being said are external acts.
The Bible is the timeless Word of God containing all that’s necessary for salvation and reveals who God is.
From the same site you cited:

Is the Bible relevant today? In the 21st century, is the Word of God still as powerful as it was in Hebrews 4:12, when it was described as “living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword?” Is our Bible today the same divinely-inspired book that Paul spoke of to Timothy in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, praising it as “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work”? The answer is,“Yes!”

The Bible that we hold in our hands today, translated from the original languages and passed down to us over the centuries, is just as profitable for every aspect of our lives in the 21st century as it was for believers in the first century.

Timeless Truths for a New Generation - Bible Study Tips

One of the tragedies of our contemporary culture is that people are not convinced of the Bible’s worth. I have often shared with our congregation the burden that people in the 21st century do not believe the Bible has anything to say to today’s generation...

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[ratio1]

most damage happens in the five or six years between the time that someone realizes that they’re gay and when they start to tell other people about it. It’s quite a heavy burden to bear all of this in secret and at a young age

Agree with this part absolutely. And this is why I’m so angry about it. These young kids get no help. And who is perpetuating this? Partly by the gay lobby. Partly by homophobia. We need to get rid of both influences.
The gay lobby tells society that having homosexual feelings is normal and there is nothing you can do about it. That doesn’t really help the young person who doesn’t want these feelings. Everybody has a biological mother and father and it’s not surprising that yearning for a normal mother and father family is a natural human desire. The gay lobby is basically saying no to these intrinsic primal human desire.
The homophobia of course is bad also. There is no excuse for it.
So my ideal society is that there is zero homophobia so that same sex attraction is a non-issue and it is as mundane as having pimples so that youngsters will have no problem in reporting this and then get help immediately.
So ironically the gay lobby is also partly responsible for all these mental problems that people suffer as well as homophobia. But of course there are also root problems which are independent of these two issues.

 

[theCardinalbird]

If God is truly omnipotent, then that doesn’t mean He can’t do anything to prevent innocent children from dying of disease or prevent people from dying of hunger. Or, are you suggesting that ever since the Fall, God is just sitting back with a completely hands off approach to what’s happening on earth?

Thorolfr, I’m going to be blunt and say that the questions you have just asked, which could all be summed up into one question: “Why does God allow humans to suffer” is a very hard question to answer. I admit that my previous explanation is probably a dull and most likely incorrect in some ways.

Now, there are explanations that could be put out there as to why God allows this suffering to occur, but as of this moment I dont have that answer. Nor do I have the scientifically proven or spiritually proven answer as to why myself and other people experience same sex attraction.
Here are some videos of possible answers, if you choose to listen to them:

I do not know why many people suffer, even innocent kids, and I dont know why people are born that way. All I know is that we are not perfect creatures and have flawed desires that are to be sacrificed to be one with our God.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Christ loved and accepted the woman caught in adultery – but He did not condone her continuing in that way of life. He said, “Go and sin no more.”

I always wonder why He didn’t do the same for the homosexual couple that was busy between the sheets together. And yet, it doesn’t seem to bother a lot of people here that he didn’t. Hmm… Seems as if it was as critical an issue as those who discuss it here would like non - Catholics to believe, He may have met the homosexuals at the well, too. No?

 

[gracepoole]

Arbovirus:

Source for this?

It’s on this thread. Look for it. I didn’t post it, someone else did, but it’s from Church documents.

I’ve just read through 471 posts. An unpleasant experience, to be sure. And yet I have not found what you’re referring to. ???

 

[Arbovirus]

I always wonder why He didn’t do the same for the homosexual couple that was busy between the sheets together.

If the pharisees caught them and brought them to His attention, perhaps it would have been recorded in Scripture.

And yet, it doesn’t seem to bother a lot of people here that he didn’t.

No one’s bothered.

He may have met the homosexuals at the well, too. No?

You really think He only met with people that were recorded in Scripture?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I still don’t know how God could allow an innocent child to be born with a predisposition to homosexuality if He considers the inclination that might arise from that to be disordered. If I thought that that were the case, I would indeed think God is rather cruel. How can He punish someone for something He made possible.

Couldn’t the same be said for a predisposition to alcoholism?