Changes to Mass

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CurtisHouse

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Hello,

I am slowly converting to the Catholic Church. I used to go to Mass for a few times maybe 5-7 years ago at my current parish. There are many things that have changed since then as my whole heart, mind, body and soul are ready to accept the Full Truth of the Catholic Church finally.

Some things do concern me though about Mass at the parish I attend. I don’t remember seeing any of these things in the Mass before. There are altar girls, people holding hands during the Our Father (that really isn’t a big thing to me but I think is for some people), nobody kneeling in the Presence of Jesus Christ during the Holy Eucharist (which seems to be something regular now in NO) and, something that just occurred this week, just about everybody clapped at the end of Mass.

I am trying to keep these things out of my mind during Mass so I can focus completely on God. It is very difficult though.

I wrote an e-mail to the RCIA director about this and hopefully she will get back to me on these concerns. She was trying to contact one of the Priests about setting up some sort of alternative work schedule for RCIA in the Fall since I work nights.

Other than praying about this and hopefully being able to contact one of the Priests about this situation, is there anything else that can be done? I know God put me here for a reason but, as I keep on learning about the faith, these changes can be burdensome at times.

I’m trying not to nitpick but I also don’t want things added to the Mass that aren’t even in the GIRM.

What got to me the most was the clapping after Mass. We were just in the Presence of Jesus Christ and so many got to partake in the Eucharist (myself excluded for the time being). A few minutes later, would the correct response be to clap? It almost feels like clapping right after you see Jesus die on the cross. That is something that should never be done. This is worshiping the Creator of the Universe, not going to a concert. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and God bless you all. Keep me in your prayers for God to reveal what I should do about this. Have a blessed week.

“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.Such attraction fades quickly – it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” (Pope Benedict XVI)
 
CurtisHouse said:
“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.Such attraction fades quickly – it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” (Pope Benedict XVI)
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This bothers me also.
 
CurtisHouse said:
Some things do concern me though about Mass at the parish I attend. I don’t remember seeing any of these things in the Mass before. There are altar girls, people holding hands during the Our Father (that really isn’t a big thing to me but I think is for some people), nobody kneeling in the Presence of Jesus Christ during the Holy Eucharist (which seems to be something regular now in NO) and, something that just occurred this week, just about everybody clapped at the end of Mass.
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The things you mention have been going on regularly at Masses in the USA since I was a child, which was 4 or 5 decades ago. None of it is new. Such things do not happen in every parish or under every pastor, so my guess is that if you didn’t see these things at your parish 5-7 years ago, a new pastor came in and made some changes. Either that or you just didn’t happen to go to a Mass 5-7 years ago where an altar girl was serving or where people felt moved to applaud.

You’re not going to be able to do anything about any of this stuff. If the pastor permits or even encourages it, and the rest of the congregation also likes it, they aren’t going to change it based on your not liking it. Therefore, you’d simply have to find and start attending a more conservative parish, or else start attending EF Mass if one is available in your area.

Edited to add, the quote you posted about “applause breaks out in the liturgy” sounds like it doesn’t apply here because you said this was “clapping after Mass”. “After Mass” means the Mass, also called the liturgy, has ended, so there’s no applause breaking out “in the liturgy” if people are applauding at some point after the priest has said, “The Mass is ended.” I am presuming the “clapping after Mass” was people applauding the musicians’ skills after they finished the closing hymn, which is what usually triggers it at that point.
 
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Ive noticed the clapping and that seems to be a trend in the last few of years. The hand holding for longer. Also people holding their arms open during the Lord’s Prayer.

Doesn’t bother me but those things aren’t liturgical and other than the occasional clapping I don’t do them anyway.
 
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You mean right after the Mass, they are still there to applaud the musicians? I would prefer that to what happens in my church, when 80 percent of the congregation is gone before the end of the last hymn and the musicians are still there playing their hearts out. By the time I am leaving after the last hymn, it looks like somebody phoned in a bomb threat. It’s almost miraculous how fast that church empties out! I would be happier if people stuck around to the end and then applauded the musicians. Given a choice between the two.
 
Sometimes things happen because of one priest doing something different.

Our pastor went on holidays and the priest who replaced him called all children up to the altar for the “Our Father”. They held hands and people thought it was so cute that when the pastor returned they insisted he do the same. So now every Mass sees the priest holding hands with little ones and not assuming the orans posture for the Lord’s Prayer. I just close my eyes and pray.
 
I am sure the pastor was quite capable of saying “no” if he didn’t want to hold hands with the kids.
He probably saw it as a positive that was getting people interested in the Mass, so he went along with it.
 
Unfortunately, we live in a time of decadence and lukearmness, and the liturgy always suffers in such times it seems. I’m not a convert, but converts tend to have a strong passion for the faith, because they had to actively work with God’s grace to have true faith in the sacraments. Many of us who have lived our whole lives in the Church can take it for granted sometimes–so do have some compassion on those who do these things.

In any event, find a traditional Latin Mass (“extraordinary form” as it is called these days) and never have to worry about any liturgical nonsense again. For whatever reason, you won’t find such problems there. Here’s a helpful directory of such approved Masses in the US (assuming that’s where you are):

http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm
 
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It’s not a sign of being"decadent" or “lukewarm” if you aren’t concerned about people holding hands or not during the Our Father, or whether they stand during Communion, or whether they applaud after the end of Mass (after the end, not during the liturgy).

It’s simply recognizing that these things are permitted by the Church officials in charge for the particular location, and also that for many if not most of us, they are pretty minor issues in the grand scheme of being a Catholic, frankly.

If you’re the type of person who prefers a more formal or traditional or conservative Mass, fine, hopefully you will be able to find one - but no need to suggest that people who will continue to attend the OF Mass with the hand-holding and so forth are less passionate or are taking the Mass for granted. Some are, and many aren’t.
 
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CurtisHouse said:
There are altar girls,
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Girls may serve at the altar, and this has been the case for almost 30 years. It is at the priest’s discretion whether he chooses to use both boys and girls or boys only.
CurtisHouse said:
people holding hands during the Our Father
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You are correct, not a rubric but some people do it. Simply keep your hands folded. You are not required to do this.
CurtisHouse said:
nobody kneeling in the Presence of Jesus Christ during the Holy Eucharist
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I think you need to be more specific here, because you don’t say at what point of the mass this is happening. There are some bishops that have instituted postures (legitimately) that differ from the norm in the US.
CurtisHouse said:
something that just occurred this week, just about everybody clapped at the end of Mass.
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Again, no context. We had a parishioner who celebrated his 100th birthday a few weeks ago. Father gave him a blessing from the Book of Blessings at the end of mass— and yes there was a round of spontaneous applause for him. But we don’t have “clapping” every week, or really ever. So, was some special event happening? I mean, it doesn’t seem typical that people just “clap” at the end of mass. But it would be something to ask your priest about.
 
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It is my opinion, but I believe some in the Catholic Church would like to turn the Mass into more of a charismatic experience.
Though I would like for my Catholic brothers and sisters to be more involved and more enthusiastic in their singing and praying during the Mass, I am not for this clapping and stuff that seem more like non-Catholic services.
On the other hand, we all must pray in our own way to God.
I have no problem with Alter Servers being boys or girls. As a matter of fact, I would have no problem with men and women serving in that capacity.
 
Some good points there, TB. An easy test of the health of a parish, recommended the late Father John Hardon, SJ, is to look at how often confession is offered, and how long the lines are at that time. While there are other things about a parish, of course, this is a good start. Unfortunately, I’ve found all too often that the clapping and hand-holding seems to be in inverse ratio to how often confession is being offered, along with other practices like exposition. But then I live in a relatively nutty archdiocese (Los Angeles) and it may be different in other places.

This is not to say there aren’t excellent Novus Ordo priests. There are many, thank God! But as the previous poster mentioned, you might sniff around for a Latin mass near you and see if that’s more congenial.
 
Bixby said:
This is not to say there aren’t excellent Novus Ordo priests. There are many, thank God! But as the previous poster mentioned, you might sniff around for a Latin mass near you and see if that’s more congenial.
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What’s a Novus Ordo Priest ?

My understanding is that a priest is a priest is a priest .

Some celebrate Mass in the OF [ Ordinary Form ] some in the EF [ Extraordinary Form ] BUT they are all priests .

Is the Novus Ordo a Monastic Order or an Association of Priests ?
 
I go to confession every 2 weeks for the last 2 years. There has been a line everyplace I go, and the most happy-clappy parishes near me, which are also very large with attached elementary schools, always have a line. If you don’t get there early on First Saturday especially you might not get to confess before the hour is up.

I’m not sure what causes confession to be more or less popular at some churches, though parish size probably is a factor, and ethnic makeup of the parish may also be a factor, but holding hands at Our Father, applauding after the Mass, and even kneeling to receive Communion doesn’t seem to influence it.
 
Sorry for the confusion! Yes, of course they are all priests; Novus Ordo only means they celebrate the newer mass, promulgated by Paul VI. Perfectly legitimate and also likely the parish you will find around you. They tend to vary wildly in quality. To a degree this has always been the case, obviously.
 
God bless you. That’s wonderful to hear. As I said, it can vary a great deal by diocese and even parish by parish. Again, apologies for my for my sloppy labeling (“NO priests”): 'tis early yet and the tea hasn’t fully kicked in.
 
All allowed, all as important as you want to make them.
The las time we had clapping after mass was for a seventieth anniversary wedding vow renewal.
 
No one has mentioned the obvious so far, so I will: GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) on the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) website. http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/

In short, these are the instructions for saying Mass, approved by the Vatican. They can vary slightly from country to country, and to get very picky, there are certain groups who are authorized to have their own forms–but you ordinarily wouldn’t run across these. From time to time bishops petition the Vatican for an “indult” – permission – to do some particular thing. Sometimes the indults last only for a few years and then are rescinded. Priests are explicitly forbidden in GIRM from changing anything prescribed in GIRM to suit their personal whims. Bishops do have some leeway to change certain things in their own diocese.

There is also a good Wikipedia article, “Mass in the Catholic Church” Mass in the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

As for clapping, someone quoted Pope Benedict above. I can see it if, for example, a baby is baptized in the middle of the Mass. Then it makes sense to clap. It also makes sense after Mass if there is something special–perhaps a visiting cantor or choir would get a round of applause after the Mass has ended, or perhaps at the final announcements there is some special group (Boy Scouts, military, etc.) that has attended this particular Mass; or again, at the final announcements some couple present is celebrating their 50th anniversary or something like that. But, as someone else pointed out, these examples take place AFTER the Mass. It is not forbidden, but applauding the regular choir, ushers, altar servers, etc. is not usually seen as good form - Mass is not a concert, and volunteers presumably are not doing their jobs for the applause. I’ve seen it, but it’s unusual.
 
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