Changing 10 Commandments?

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mmm1 said:
Hi, guys, I’m pretty sure you can straighten something out for me. Ajk19 just posted a collection of videos in the forum Catholic News. Its title is something about the Vatican covering up the sex abuse scandal for 40 years. The video shows a report from CBS news about a secret document that I’m sure was taken out of context & exploited by CBS. A lot of the rest of the video looks like unpolished, typical anti-Catholic stuff.

There was a blurb at the end, though, that I hadn’t heard before. It was some former priest saying that the 2nd Commandment is really to not bow down & worship any idols. That the Catholic Church changed the commandments to hide this one & turned the last commandment into two. They did this, of course, because there is a lot of money in selling idols. Just this morning we were worshipping & selling idols at my parish, I thought this was OK?😉

I know this isn’t true, but do you have any info on how to refute this?
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Go to your bible in the OT and read the 10 commandments in Moses.

Deuteronomy Chapter 5 verse 6
  1. I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.
2 You shall not have other gods besides me.

3.You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the “shape of anything” in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth. You shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to third and fourth generation. but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

4.Take care to keep holy the Sabbath day as the Lord, your God, commanded you.but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord, your God.
  1. Honour thy Father and Mother
  2. Thou shall not kill
7.You shall not commit adultery

8 You shall not steal

9You shll not bear dishonest witness against your neighor

10 You shall not covet your neighbor wife or field, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ***, nor anything that belongs to him.y

YouGod BLess:)
 
TMC said:
This would be silly if you were not seemingly so serious. The Commandments were not numbered in Scripture. Have you read Exodus and Deuteronomy? Did you see numbering in there? Modern Jews also combine what most Protestants call 1 with 2. They say the prohibition on idols is in 2, but combine it with the command to “have no other Gods before Me.” The commandment they put as no 1 is “I am the Lord your God” standing by itself.

Catholicism does not in any way support the worship of idols. Can you show any document or statement from the Church that says otherwise?
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You say that Catholicism does not in any way support the worship of idols so why is our churches filled with them and why do we bless them and cover them in gold and sell them? We know there are ten commandments.Just asking.

God Bless:confused:
 
planter654 said:
You say that Catholicism does not in any way support the worship of idols so why is our churches filled with them and why do we bless them and cover them in gold and sell them? We know there are ten commandments.Just asking.

God Bless:confused:
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Your church is also filled with pews. Do you worship the pews?
 
SolaFide said:
Did you look at that list on Wikipedia? Did you even notice that the ONLY church that doesn’t have the 2nd commandment as no idols or images is the Catholic church? All the other churches have all the others the same, the only one that doesn’t is the Catholic church.
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Did you look at the list? Are Lutherns the same as Catholics to you??

M
 
bankerdavid said:
I guess Jesus was a sinner, then.
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It is not the cross (wood) that saved us it was Jesus who was on the cross that our salvation came don’t you think? The cross was a weapon used to torture don’t you think?

God Bless
 
st_lucy said:
How sad it is when there are those who like to accuss others of failing the first and second commandments when they themselves like to ignor the eighth.

You spread falsehoods when you state what you did in this quote. I am now teaching my 6 year old the ten commandments and just as my mother taught me and her mother taught her and so on. I have taught him that the second commandment does indeed state that we shall not worship idols. Any Catholic and any Christian for that matter would tell you that “Thou shall not have other gods besides me” Means not to worship other gods.

Please stop trying assume that you know the CC when infact you do not. IF you are so bent on teaching the ten commandments to others please always keep in mind the other eight before you run around spreading falsehoods about your brothers.

Just a thought.
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What concerns me is it is not about you or me but rather we are not concerned in pleasing God in what he has commanded us to do. How I ask myself can we say we Love God if we do not do what he has commanded us to do and has told us what pleases him and what offends him? Why do we think it is no big deal God doesn’t mind. Then why did he ask us and command us? I think it is a frightful thing to appease man and slight God, our creator, don’t you think? God will not be mocked! He has given us the wisdom to understand theses simple 10 commandments. It reads in Deuteronomy Chapter 5 starting at Verse 6—21. The whole 10 commandments are there no matter what you or I think where 2 begins or 4 begins it is all there.

Thou shall not carve idols for yourselves in any shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you sahll not bow down before them or whoship them, for I am the Lord thy God. Is what I have found in Deuteronomy.

God Bless
 
Have you even read Josephus and Philo? They recorded Jewish history they didn’t make it up as they went along. They recorded the Decalogue as the 2nd commandment being against idols and images.

You condemn Jewish history yet you should not be conceited for unto them was entrusted the covenants and the law to:

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
Rom 9:4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

You claim the Jewish traditions are worthless yet your “Pharisees” in the Holy See make up traditions just as bad and worthless as they. That knife of “worthless traditions” cuts both ways buster!!!

Learn well! I would trust their version of the decalogue long before I would trust the bastardized version of the RCC!

Rom 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
 
EphelDuath said:
First of all, you won’t find a single Catholic document that supports idolatry; in fact, anything that speaks of worship of anything but God is always viewed in a negative light.

Second, no. The Decalogue is given in both Exodus and Deuteronomy, and the ordering is different. So the question is how to separate them. The Catholic ordering puts “no false gods” as the same commandment with “idolatry,” and splits up “coveting neighbor’s wife” from “coveting neighbor’s good” since it’s two different sins: lust and greed. But the second commandment is still there, it’s just part of the first.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Commandments#Division_of_the_Commandments

Why do we change what God has written? God is perfect, all wisdom why do we change his Holy word in the first place! If we remove and change a word like remove crave idols to only worship other gods it changes the whole meaning. Shame on us all and may God have mercy upon us. I have 3 bibles and there are many changes of words and it changes the whole meaning this should not be don’t you think?

God Bless

As you can see, Jews, Protestants and Catholics all believe in all of the commandments; they just divide them differently, since it’s a bit ambiguous.
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on_fire said:
the non Catholic 10 Commandments were issued to try and show how Catholics worshipped idols and graven images at the time of the reformation.It was St.Augustine in the 5th century that was the first to list the commandments in a set of 10 if Im not mistaken.also the n-C 10 combine the Catholic 9th and 10th together as if a neighbors wife was also a part of his property.
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ST. Augustine came after Moses were there not the ten commandments given to Moses?

Thanks
 
Joe_Kelley said:
The Ark of the Covenant was built immediately after they received the Commandments to specifications given by God along with the Commandments. Note especially Exodus 37:7-9 These look like images to me. God must not have prohibited all images.
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God Commanded this to be done. Like God also gave Moses the 10 commandments for us to know what not to do.
God is not a foolish God.

thanks
 
SolaFide cannot answer any of the criticisms we give of his theory, so he resorts to more emotional propaganda; that is, that we suppress our Jewish heritage rather than embrace it.

At least we call our clergy “priests.” Not many fundamentalist churches do that.
Why do we change what God has written? God is perfect, all wisdom why do we change his Holy word in the first place! If we remove and change a word like remove crave idols to only worship other gods it changes the whole meaning. Shame on us all and may God have mercy upon us. I have 3 bibles and there are many changes of words and it changes the whole meaning this should not be don’t you think?
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We haven’t changed anything. The Catholics were the first people to order Bible passages into verses, thus the question of how to divide the Commandments was in our laps.

Worshiping false gods is exactly the same as idolatry, so there’s no reason to differentiate them. However, coveting a woman is lust as opposed to coveting goods which is envy; again, the claim that we’re trying to endorse idolatry by slipping the grouping into another imperative is like saying Protestants are endorsing adultery and fornication because they’re sliding the ninth commandment into the tenth.
 
EphelDuath said:
It’s sad that people actually buy this ridiculous propaganda.

“No other gods before me” and “don’t make any idols” mean the same thing. Hence they don’t need to be two different commandments. It’s ridiculous to say we “hid” the Second Commandment because they aren’t numbered in the BIble. To prove such a colossal claim, you would have to show me a single time the Catholic Church has displayed the Ten Commandments and the “have no idols” clause is outright removed. Because if it’s still there, we still follow it.

You’re saying it’s not ambiguous, seemingly unaware that every major religious group that believes in the commandments orders them differently. You even admitted they do so, but you’re still carefully wording your post so it looks like Catholics “don’t get it” but everyone else does.

Prove to me Catholics worship idols and I’ll become Protestant. It hasn’t happened yet, because you’re receiving all of your propaganda from Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and Bob Jones. It’s a shame that you put these people before God.
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it is not so much that we worship them but that we disobey God .You shall not carve idols for yourselve etc. And we have done exactly that. We have made them which we were commanded not to do and also have placed them in God’s house of prayer, don’t you think? Why this is so simple to understand and yet we soothsay the oppose of God’s most Holy word to our own pleasure. I simple ask and I think we don’t need a theoligion on this one. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything-------you shall not bow down before them or whorship them…is this not simple to understand?

God Bless

Thanks
 
We have made them which we were commanded not to do and also have placed them in God’s house of prayer, don’t you think?
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No, we haven’t. There’s a difference between statues and idols.
You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything-------you shall not bow down before them or whorship them…is this not simple to understand?
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We don’t worship them. We use them to represent the saints we honor and the God we do worship, just as God ordered two angels to be put on the Ark of the Covenant that David and Israel danced and sang to.
 
SolaFide said:
  1. First of all the Ark of the Covenant NEVER depicted God in any form, it depicted His mercy seat or throne and we know from Scripture that cherubim surround the throne of God.
  2. The Ark of the Covenant was NEVER seen by the people at large after it was placed in the Holy of Holies. It was only seen by the High priest and only once a year. It wasn’t accessible to the average person. That means the cherubim would never be venerated by the average person. Thus God prevented the Ark from becoming an object of worship. Not even the ark was to be venerated…when it was it was taken from the people in war (1 Sam. 4).
  3. The bronze serpent (which I’m sure someone will use as an excuse for idols) was only to be used on ONE occassion as a type or picture of Christ and how he would heal from sin (John 3:14). But since the people began to venerate that too, God had one of the good kings smash it to bits (2 Kings 18:4).
  4. Moses’ body was taken and buried by an angel of the Lord so the people wouldn’t venerate it.
Seems God went to A LOT of trouble to make sure the faithful didn’t venerate images or relics yet why are they so prevalent in some churches?
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Very Very good and we as Catholics are not taught this and why. With all the theologians we have who have studied and are experts and yet we were never taught this or told this when seeking to know the will of God. This troubles me very much. Yes why are these idols so prevalent in churches there is no excuse. Shame on us, God have mercy on us all and forgive us.

In the end God said you will need know one to teach you for I will circumize your heart and all will know me.

Thanks be to God
 
planter654 said:
Very Very good and we as Catholics are not taught this and why. With all the theologians we have who have studied and are experts and yet we were never taught this or told this when seeking to know the will of God. This troubles me very much. Yes why are these idols so prevalent in churches there is no excuse. Shame on us, God have mercy on us all and forgive us.

In the end God said you will need know one to teach you for I will circumize your heart and all will know me.

Thanks be to God
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SolaFide said:
  1. First of all the Ark of the Covenant NEVER depicted God in any form, it depicted His mercy seat or throne and we know from Scripture that cherubim surround the throne of God.
  2. The Ark of the Covenant was NEVER seen by the people at large after it was placed in the Holy of Holies. It was only seen by the High priest and only once a year. It wasn’t accessible to the average person. That means the cherubim would never be venerated by the average person. Thus God prevented the Ark from becoming an object of worship. Not even the ark was to be venerated…when it was it was taken from the people in war (1 Sam. 4).
  3. The bronze serpent (which I’m sure someone will use as an excuse for idols) was only to be used on ONE occassion as a type or picture of Christ and how he would heal from sin (John 3:14). But since the people began to venerate that too, God had one of the good kings smash it to bits (2 Kings 18:4).
  4. Moses’ body was taken and buried by an angel of the Lord so the people wouldn’t venerate it.
Seems God went to A LOT of trouble to make sure the faithful didn’t venerate images or relics yet why are they so prevalent in some churches?
Click to expand...
 
EphelDuath said:
No, we haven’t. There’s a difference between statues and idols.

We don’t worship them. We use them to represent the saints we honor and the God we do worship, just as God ordered two angels to be put on the Ark of the Covenant that David and Israel danced and sang to.
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I don’t care if it is a statue with painted black eyes or idol we are not to do it period.

Thanks God Bless
 
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