Changing the ‘tempo’ before and after Mass

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YourNameHere said:
My point being is that Mass is for us to worship God. We are giving to God what God deserves from us, our praise.

We are not going to Mass to be entertained by a priest or deacon.
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Amen x 10000.

If people are going to decide they don’t want to come to Mass because it’s not “fun” or “entertaining”, they are missing the whole point of why we are there.
 
I love my parish exactly as it is. But…

Why not offer both to those who want it?
 
Please re-read the replies above.

Also, unless you live in some area that only has 1 Catholic church serving four counties, there are probably a dozen or more parishes, each with multiple Mass options, within easy driving distance.
You seem to think the choices begin and end at the one Mass you went to. I go to a lot of different parishes and I could point you to one that has a big Lifeteen Mass on Sunday evenings with an amplified rock band and a pretty good homilist.
I could point you to Masses with preachers like Fr. Blount who I just discussed above.

We don’t have smoke machines because like I said, this is Mass, it is not a Broadway show, and there is a limit as to what elements the Bishops see fit to include in a Mass that is focused on the unbloody sacrifice of Jesus, not on whether some young person finds it as entertaining as the Protestant church. So we don’t have smoke machines, we don’t have liturgical dancers, we don’t have the priest sailing in on an overhead wire wearing angel wings and sprlnkling holy water on everybody’s head and landing in the pulpit.
 
ShowersofRoses said:
It’s so rare to find serenity nowadays, especially as a parent. I can pray and worship and I feel so much closer to God because I can quiet myself in the mass or at adoration and actually hear what He’s saying. I’m blessed that my church is open all day, every day, so I can go whenever I need to and visit with Jesus.
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ShowersofRoses said:
It’s distracting and takes the focus off of Jesus. It “might” not bother me as much at a mass for a teen youth group, but certainly not at normal mass. Mass should be holy and reverent, not entertainment.
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Agree…
 
One thing also you could explain to your friend that I don’t think has been touched on yet is that every single element of the Mass has meaning. It’s all symbolic and is meant to teach us something. So, a smoke machine at the mega-church simply adds to the atmosphere. Incense at Mass is symbolic of our prayers being lifted to Heaven and goes back all the way to Israelites using incense to cleanse and purify the Tabernacle. So, changing elements of Mass is not just a matter of preference. Every part, the tempo, the musical instruments, the style, should be true to the original intentions of the Mass, I believe.
 
Why? Because many mega churches are basically just entertainment with a religious overtone while the Catholic church is centered on the Eucharist.
 
Yes, but it isn’t a free for all. The bishops are responsible for determining what is appropriate for the particular churches entrusted to them. If you want a smoke machine and flashing disco balls in the sanctuary, and the bishop says “no”, that’s final.
 
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Lifeisbeautiful3 said:
You’re pursuing the question as an “or“, not an “and“.

While I agree that I (and many) Catholics enjoy the solemnity of mass, I suspect some others might enjoy this approach. The question I’m posing is whether it could be done by a diocese while remaining true to the Catholic faith

Presumably, someone can come to mass to worship in a “lively, extroverted” environment that might otherwise be attending a Protestant church for that purpose.
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I feel you have a point here. Coming to the mass is usually the first step to know, like and love it. That would be the power of the Eucharist to change a person. A truly grace of God and thus the Sacrament, would make a difference to a person.

But if the person does not come to the mass at all, what chance is there for him to experience the grace of the mass? He has to make the first step, which then a process as a journey.

My own experience with the mass was that I attended it as a kid (daily) because I had to and as a result, it was more like a culture to me. But not all was lost, it also became part of my life. Later when I was touched by the Holy Spirit, the mass suddenly became interesting and profound.

I just want more of the mass. Attending it for its sake and obligation has become not enough. You began to.appreciate a good homily or a gifted speaker or meaningful music; and you even look for them.

I think the problem with us Catholics is that we tend to depend on the mass as a Sacrament. We pride ourselves that nothing more is required, and rightly so.

It is undeniable that good speaker, liturgist, homiles, music, do have roles in making the mass an interesting experience for some people.

I think there is nothing wrong to fullfil that needs. Today young priests would tell us that they learned public speaking in their formative years, which was never done before.

When people become interested in the mass, they also develop preferences in what they want, which also hold true for those who left the Church and those who are nominal.

God bless.
 
As a long time ex-Protestant i can actually understand the concern. However, the Protestants - Evangelicals in particular - happen to be the by-product of this day and age, and so they are looking at any church as what they can get/receive from that, say, pastor, sermon, music, feeling, feeling, feeling and feeling… It naturally becomes all about the individual, rather than God Himself. Moreover, we the Catholics, have the Eucharist which is the focal point and the essential reason why we “celebrate” Mass. Having said that, i still appreciate some Protestant sermons of well known mega-churches in America, as long as they are in line with our Catholic faith! Thank God, i am in a position where i can distinguish the border lines now. Nevertheless, i also relate to the need of having better and more effective homilies in general. It is a fact, by my personal experience, that the Protestants are ahead of us when it comes to sermons, and definitely an average Protestant knows more about his/her Bible than an average Catholic, sadly. However, in our priests’ defense, they don’t simply have the luxury of time to deliver like a Protestant pastor does in an hour, if not more. Perhaps some time in the future the Church could designate a day of the week for, say, Bible Study & Sermon only. Mind you, Evangelical churches have multiple services throughout the week days, too.

As far as music is concerned, i have been to contemporary services (masses) in the Catholic Church, and with all due respect, it’s a disgrace. I have seen priests clapping, waving arms in the air and sort of dancing before the altar. I don’t think we should give up so much of Tradition and what is considered respectful veneration just to keep up with the Protestant churches. For example, i will not give up proper table manners just because i want to appeal to a new friend who does not care for it. Also, when you think of music per se, it is all about the Majesty we mean to give to the Lord. And that simply goes in context: Can you imagine playing a pop song or a love song (or how about Despacito? one of my favorites lol) during the most gruesome scene in a horror movie…?
 
Frankly I do not want long homily in a Sunday mass. Long does not equal good. A good homily should be not too long, probably the most fifteen minutes but shorter would be better. More importantly it should bring about a single important message efficiently and perhaps with substance from the readings.

That’s why with time constraint, it helps if the homily content is decisive and delivery satisfactory.

Long sermon is ok if is it incorporated as a teaching/keynote address, perhaps in a seminar for a group of people where a speaker priest/bishop/cardinal takes the session in the program.
 
I’ve heard priests say that homily length is cultural to some degree. In the US culture, people tend to want it very short. However, for Spanish masses it has to be longer because Latinos expect the priest to talk for a longer time, so if the priest finishes the Sunday homily in 5 minutes, they complain.

To some extent, Masses are going to be adapted to the needs of a particular parish or the particular attendees of a Mass. Like I said above, the parish that has a big Lifeteen Mass has the amplified rock band with a drummer playing “Lion and the Lamb” at that Mass. At the other Sunday Masses, the music is more traditional and has an organist, or the church choir. If I go to a Spanish Mass, there is going to likely be a Spanish guitar group with tambourine and maracas etc playing traditional Spanish songs. If I go to a Charismatic Mass, it’s going to be a different atmosphere than if I go to a TLM. I firmly believe all of these things have their place and if somebody doesn’t like what goes on at a particular church or a particular Mass, I would hope they have the choice of going to another one where the music, atmosphere, etc is different.
 
Some say that a good homily is like a good newspaper editorial, short and to the point.
 
Lifeisbeautiful3 said:
The follow-up question he posed (and I think it’s a valid question) is whether a mass could be true to our roots, but with the accoutrements offered in his mega church (different lighting, smoke machines, loud repetitive music, and a charismatic and engaging priest/deacon). While this wouldn’t likely appeal to me, or many traditional Catholics, I do think it would appeal to some who have fallen away from the Church and some younger people. For what it’s worth, his church has annual contributions of $30MM across many ‘campus locations’.
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He wouldn’t like the answer, but no. That kind of service is about entertainment and creating emotion. It is focused on the attendee more than God. That is why those kinds of services are perfectly compatible with the ‘prosperity Gospel’, which is how can God make me rich.

That kind of service has so much appeal because we live in a culture that is based on distraction and entertainment. To anyone who gets away from that, and experiences the discomfort of quietness, a service like that is jarring.

This kinds of churches will burn bright and fast, but die. It won’t be there in one hundred years. They are really based on the personalities in charge. The Catholic Church has lasted two thousand years, and it will be here long after this popular church is gone.
 
I attended a very traditional and reverant ordinary form mass when i lived in New Hampshire. Lots of incense all the time, the priest and deacon permeating with love and reverence for what they were doing, beautiful worship space with lots of art. Good, fairly traditional hymns at the 9:30 AM mass with lay participation. And at 11AM every Sunday they also had a more charismatic mass. Same priest and deacon, same incence and love and care (no dancing, same “movements”, still incense around the altar and prior to the gospel reading, same chant at the times he used it), but instead of a traditional choir there were guitars and drums and more modern and folk hymns, the congregation lifted one hand in the air while singing, and while I preferred the more traditional mass time, it was obviously working for those 11AM people without compromising the integrity of the mass.

My point being that there is room to work within as far as the music goes, though I’d rather only see incense for smoke. No smoke machines or light shows, please. Music is called for, smoke machines and other theatrics aren’t.

I haven’t quite found another church with the same lay participation in singing, though, whether for traditional or modern. And hymn selection can make or break whether the laity participate.

And an eganging or charismatic priest giving the homily fits fine within the mass. There is definitely room for it and they are out there.

I think all these things can really help lift a person up in their worship. All that said, the singing and preaching, while good and uplifting, are not the central reason we gather together.
 
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I’m not convinced by this, to be honest.

We are commemorating the Resurrection as well as Calvary. We are the Easter people.

I take it that those who follow this 'Not suitable at Calvary, not suitable at Mass ’ mantra don’t have joyful hymns or ever smile at their neighbour in the pew?
 
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Ok, we don’t _need_the bells and whistles and the mass is not about entertainment, but does that mean if we had more engaging homilies and more modern music we would then somehow lose the real presence, the praise, the prayer, etc?
 
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