Charismatic Catholic

[grannymh]

Yes I understand that. I worded it wrongly. I meant to say that I would like to experience a Catholic Mass service where the charismatic elements and gifts of worship are involved.

“charismatic elements and gifts of worship” can mean just about anything. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is more precise. St. Paul was more precise and it is St. Paul whom Catholics follow.

This link may help. Check out the beginning chapter headings.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

From what has already been posted, it is the common Charismatic gift of praying/praising God in Tongues which would be the natural gift which could be used within the Catholic Holy Sacrifice of the Mass when there is proper approval.

 

[SyroMalankara]

There is no glossolalia, a term Catholics Charismatic do not use and do not like.

There are three type of tongues:

(1) Speaking in tongue, which is almost non-existence.

Why is this almost non-existent? It would seem to be more of a Holy Spirit led miracle had a non-native speaker of any local language suddenly become understood to all. Or even someone with the gift to be able to learn languages quickly in order to Evangelize the Good News and pray with those of various languages. I know a few who have the latter gift - they can speak multiple languages, translate while between them and continue their conversations fluidly - quite impressive.

(2) Praying in tongue which is common and (3) singing in tongue, common also. These gifts are to enhance one’s prayers, being unable or do not know what to pray, the Spirit leads to pray in words we cannot understand but arise from the inner being that praise God. Rom 8:26 usually is a reference for that but don’t tell those who do not know such things. They will only making judgment on you.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. 27 And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[c] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

I don’t see any reference here to praying or singing “in tongues” as such. The gist of it is that the Holy Spirit fills what is lacking in our distractions and sins - we often do not pray without distractions of this world, not fully with our hearts, minds and bodies — that’s our weakness. Nothing here states the Holy Spirit will make an individual or a group make sounds that aren’t words and babble or anything like that. If anything, the person should be even more silent and in contemplation.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Please, are you aware that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to give His precious gifts to humans? (Acts 2: 1-4; 1 Corinthians chapters 12 & 14)

Why is the only “gift” worth mentioning and promotion that which draws attention to one’s self? Many of the non-tongues “gifts” are much more uplifting for the entire Church but we rarely hear a peep about it from the same people who say they’ve got the “tongues”.

 

[Michael68]

Why is there a different Mass called charismatic Mass or charismatic healing Mass - such a thing is written nowhere in any rubric, General Instruction, or liturgical document.

Here is my concern with the practice - if you can guarantee a ‘speaking in tongues’ moment, isn’t it just prearranged and not a spontaneous action of the Holy Spirit?

why have you gone to protestant charismatic service? I believe the Catholic worship is much greater than any protestant service, considering the focus, and worshipping in Spirit and Truth.

Red flags all over the place for me with this.

I agree totally!!! Everyone is forgetting that St. Paul wrote that if there was someone speaking in tongues there would be an intepreter. If not, then be silent. I have seen no interpreters of tongues but a lot of babbling. There is no place for this in the Mass

 

[grannymh]

Why is this almost non-existent? It would seem to be more of a Holy Spirit led miracle had a non-native speaker of any local language suddenly become understood to all. Or even someone with the gift to be able to learn languages quickly in order to Evangelize the Good News and pray with those of various languages. I know a few who have the latter gift - they can speak multiple languages, translate while between them and continue their conversations fluidly - quite impressive.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. 27 And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[c] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

I don’t see any reference here to praying or singing “in tongues” as such.

Have you ever considered just how the Holy Spirit intercedes?

Acts 2: 1-4 is complementary to Romans 8: 26.

“as the Spirit enable them to proclaim.” Acts 2: 4 is a description of the Holy Spirit enabling the human to pray or speak in Tongues. This gift to pray or sing in the Holy Spirit Tongues is considered a common gift because all can receive it.

.

 

[Michael68]

Have you ever considered just how the Holy Spirit intercedes?

Acts 2: 1-4 is complementary to Romans 8: 26.

“as the Spirit enable them to proclaim.” Acts 2: 4 is a description of the Holy Spirit enabling the human to pray or speak in Tongues. This gift to pray or sing in the Holy Spirit Tongues is considered a common gift because all can receive it.

Sighs are not normally human

.

When you sing in tongues do the words rhyme or is it just freestyle?

 

[grannymh]

Why is the only “gift” worth mentioning and promotion that which draws attention to one’s self? Many of the non-tongues “gifts” are much more uplifting for the entire Church but we rarely hear a peep about it from the same people who say they’ve got the “tongues”.

Have you checked the latest world population figures?

The Holy Spirit Gift of Praying in Tongues is a common gift meaning that all people in the world can receive it. It should be obvious that some people will abuse this gift while other use the gift properly. It is also understandable that not all people in the world would have been educated in the variety of gifts. (1 Corinthians, chapter 12)

 

[grannymh]

That’s what I’m curious about, because by speaking in tongues in Pentecostal context almost always refers to glossolalia, not xenoglossy. And it seems it has a similar usage in Charismatic Catholic contexts as well.

It is my understanding that a Pentecostal context recognizes the distinctions of two separate gifts which employ Tongues.

Please note that the common gift of praying in tongues is not glossolalia and not xenoglossy.

 

[grannymh]

I agree totally!!! Everyone is forgetting that St. Paul wrote that if there was someone speaking in tongues there would be an intepreter. If not, then be silent. I have seen no interpreters of tongues but a lot of babbling. There is no place for this in the Mass

St. Paul clearly points out that there are two, yes two, different gifts of the Holy Spirit which employ the use of Tongues. (1 Corinthians, chapter 14)

 

[Reuben_J]

When you sing in tongues do the words rhyme or is it just freestyle?

There is no structure nor atypical to it. It can sound just about anything.

There was a priest from Taiwan many years back. He was quite well-known in the Charismatic circle as having gift of healing and discernment. Was a good minister and counselor.

But when he prayed in tongue, it just sound like chicken. Lol.

So actually when the Spirit gives you the gift, it humbles you. You’d be fool and laughing stock. But that’s how it is.

Tongue is the lowest of all the gift and it is usually called a gateway to greater gifts. Only the tongue can be used for self-upbuilding while all the rest of the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the upbuilding of the Body (of Christ), to serve; which is why not everybody has it. Fr. Pio had it; he could read your thought and I think he healed too.

The gift of praying in tongue is controlled by oneself, like when to start and to stop. The Holy Spirit does not possess us; we are not in a trance. A gift is to be received, not forced on you and therefore we have to corporate to receive it.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Have you ever considered just how the Holy Spirit intercedes?

Acts 2: 1-4 is complementary to Romans 8: 26.

“as the Spirit enable them to proclaim.” Acts 2: 4 is a description of the Holy Spirit enabling the human to pray or speak in Tongues. This gift to pray or sing in the Holy Spirit Tongues is considered a common gift because all can receive it.

.

Acts 2 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

I don’t think any mighty wind or tongues of fire preclude any charismatic “praying/singing in tongues”. In addition, no one hears anyone speaking in any discernible language. So how is this referring to what we are discussing about the present practices?

 

[grannymh]

When you sing in tongues do the words rhyme or is it just freestyle?

Link: brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

Chapter Four, Praying in Tongues, page 33 and following.

Praying in tongues is a gift whereby the person prays to God in a language which he does not know, by simply “yielding” to the action of the Spirit.

When “praying in tongues,” the person does not use his rational powers of memory or intellect which are usually employed in speaking or praying. He does use the other faculties associated with speech – the lips, the tongue and the larynx.

The above is key to using Tongues. We give ourselves freely and completely to the Holy Spirit. We let the Holy Spirit take over in whatever sounds He uses. Control freaks do have a difficult time at first. The Holy Spirit is patient.

When we sing in Tongues we are yielding to the Holy Spirit. It is His choice to rhyme or not. It is His choice to use only a few sounds or to use sounds that have the cadence of a real language. On our part, we are grateful to have the Holy Spirit praying and singing to God…

Please note. Please realize that praying in Tongues is not better than praying in the vernacular. Prayer is not a game where someone wins the prize for the “best.”

 

[Michael68]

Acts 2 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

I don’t think any mighty wind or tongues of fire preclude any charismatic “praying/singing in tongues”. In addition, no one hears anyone speaking in any discernible language. So how is this referring to what we are discussing about the present practices?

Yes, this is my understanding. I think somewhere down the line this verse got confused with the babbling witnessed today

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I do not be mean to be rude; however, there is some serious confusion. Have you ever learned about Tongues and what is meant by the use of Tongues in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

Read a book on it recently but do not claim to be a subject matter expert. What do you think im confused about?

 

[Reuben_J]

Acts 2 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

I don’t think any mighty wind or tongues of fire preclude any charismatic “praying/singing in tongues”. In addition, no one hears anyone speaking in any discernible language. So how is this referring to what we are discussing about the present practices?

The Pentecost experience of tongue is generally understood as speaking in tongue and interpretation of tongue.

One person speaks in tongue, another able to interpret it. Thus different nationalities could understand what the apostles were saying as if they spoke in the languages of the listeners.

The Holy Spirit manifests in many ways. DuringPentecost it was tongue of fire and whistling wind; when Paul and Silas were praising, it was earthquake. But sometimes it may not be as dramatic.

Speaking in tongue must be accompanied by someone who has the gift of interpretation of tongue, otherwise it is useless. This gift is for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, not for personal usage, unlike praying and singing in tongue.

Speaking in tongue is very rare and probably very few people ever heard of it, but it does not mean it doesn’t exist. The more common one is praying and singing in tongue. Because one has to corporate to initiate it, usually it starts with error or unauthentic. IOW, it is purely our own effort but that’s how it comes about. Without wanting it, then we will never receive it because a gift is meant ti be received. If you refuse it, then you will not get it.

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes, this is my understanding. I think somewhere down the line this verse got confused with the babbling witnessed today

It is very unkind to say that, isn’t it?

What do you want to know? Ask me, I can help you.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Probably not much different nowadays especially after the implementation of GIRM though it still varies from region to region.

As mentioned, you may have a time of praise and worship, a short one, probably with one praise and one worship song, followed by free praise and tongue (singing in the spirit) respectively at one part of the mass where it does not really encroaches into the mass proper or with some stricter celebrant, it will be done at the concluding hymn. So that’s it. Do not expect something spectacularly different from any mass.

If there is any healing service, it can be done after the mass. Perhaps a pray over where people come up to be ministered to or a rally where there is a general prayer for healing.

Edit: Go to a prayer meeting where you can see freedom in praise and worship and ministry. Depending on the community, there may be an exercised of the charismatic gift of the Holy Spirit, if there are gifted persons among the group.

There is no definite structure. It is totally depends on the leader or the priest, if he is the one who also leads the healing service.

People make so much out of nothing. These are all exaggeration arising from hearsay or having seen one, thinking that all are the same.

This is my belief as well. A healing Mass in my parish may be completely different than one in yours, etc. Ive been to multiple charismatic Masses at the same parish but they were different depending which Priest was conducting it

 

[Reuben_J]

This is my belief as well. A healing Mass in my parish may be completely different than one in yours, etc. Ive been to multiple charismatic Masses at the same parish but they were different depending which Priest was conducting it

Exactly. Be aware though when you speak to those who do not know about the Charismatic Renewal. They can misunderstand you. Officially there is no Charismatic mass and when we say that, we will quickly be shot down, and rightly so, However, such jargon is only good with those who know what you are saying,

 

[grannymh]

Read a book on it recently but do not claim to be a subject matter expert. What do you think im confused about?

It was these two points.

“You cant guarantee tongue speaking at a healing Mass, you are just more likely to see it there.”

“As far as speaking in tongues, scripture says it must be interpreted, so that is something im always cautious about ever since my protestant days.”

 

[Hatikvah]

When you sing in tongues do the words rhyme or is it just freestyle?

I think it’s like crazy reggae, if you’ve ever heard that. It’s almost like beatboxing but… different?