Charismatic Catholics

[catholictiger]

Gift of being at peace and giving that sene of inner peace to others. Sleeping refreshes to body.

has fit my experiences a couple of times, my life was very busy in high school and need rest and when i had these experiences it did help with that.

also it really isn’t a sleeping experience it is a where you fall and you have little to no control of your body you don’t usually move though.

the experience isn’t sleeping even though your body can feel refreshed

The gift of joy of being joyful, laughter is the outward expression of inward exuberance. Then spreading that joy to the people of God.

*]

also have fit my experiences a couple of times.

 

[joe_cool]

joe_cool;6983355:

Now THIS is a great post.

Our friend described the following “gifts of the spirit” received while at Adoration:
Gift of being at peace and giving that sene of inner peace to others. Sleeping refeshes to body.

Awesome. So then the homeless are actually Charismatic Missionaries… given they sleep in public? Do YOU feel an overwhelming sense of serenity and peace when you see a sleeping homeless man?

This is not an answer to my question - this is a rationalization.

The gift of joy of being joyful, laughter is the outward expression of inward exuberance. Then speading that joy to the people of God.

When you laugh… is it because something is funny? Or is it because other people are laughing?

The former is normal - the latter is hysteria. Look familiar?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Hysteria.jpg/800px-Hysteria.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria

are you speaking of the the tower of babble in Genisis?

… no.

And if you don’t get the scriptural reference - then I would kindly suggest you devote more time to diligent study of Scripture and less time to study of Charismatism - another common failing of the Charismatic movement.

I have heard people filled with the Spirit expressing that overwhelming sense of peace and love. St. Paul had the gift of tongues, he is recongized as a great evangelist. Those I have seen who have recieved this gift are much more willing to go forth and spread Christ’s word.

Peace, FAB

First of all - St. Paul could speak in languages he did not know - LANGUAGES.

Second of all -
No. Those who have “received this gift” are much more willing to go forth and talk about how they “received this gift”… as evidenced by the rampant pollution of threads on here by extremely vocal Charismatics. Statistically, you kids are in an extreme minority. On here - every conversation where this segue is even remotely relevent is eventually turned into discussions of “charismatic gifts” because some new or poorly catechized Catholic thinks you represent the teachings of Holy Mother Church. It’s exactly the same behavior you see in the Baptist and Pentecostal charismatic movements… which eventually results in a “you haven’t been saved unless you speak in tongues” brand of foolishness.

I will point you to the Catholic Encyclopedia:
newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm

Especially to the following passage, which speaks directly to you:
***They made of “tongues” a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God (15). ***

 

[joe_cool]

How can you say that 120 000 000 people is an extreme minority?

I can make up numbers, too. There are a million billion gadjillion Catholics. That makes you 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000045%.

 

[Brannock]

In regards to the steubenville retreat,

I think that a lot of it was very good (though many parts were unnecessarily over the top, but what do you expect when older people are trying to look “cool” in front teenagers. It seemed to work for some people).

I do think that all the people “slain in spirit” during adoration were more likely so due to emotional and physical factors (although I do not discount the possibility). Everyone on the retreat slept about 3 hrs a night and the days were very full of mental and physical activities. By the time adoration came around, it was the very last night, and everybody had been singing, and praying (standing or kneeling) for about 3-4 hours straight. People were already upset to be leaving each other, and on top of that were exhausted, dehydrated, exhilarated. The number of people affected were quite high, at least 30 people were “slain in spirit” and many others could be heard laughing wildly or babbling.

At the start of the retreat, we were warned not be scared if this occurred during adoration. Many teenagers fantasize that type of situation, and if you add that to the exhaustion, it would be easy for someone to show these side effects. (anybody here ever laugh wildly at at a not-funny joke at 3 in the morning before?)

Anyway, I don’t wish to discount all charismatic worship/movement or whatnot. This was just my experience.

 

[anjoh66]

I can make up numbers, too. There are a million billion gadjillion Catholics. That makes you 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000045%.

You are not being serious now.

There are approx 120 000 000 000 catholics in the whole world, that means that 10% of them is involved somehow in the charismatic movement.

 

[joe_cool]

You are not being serious now.

There are approx 120 000 000 000 catholics in the whole world, that means that 10% of them is involved somehow in the charismatic movement.

No. There are 1.16 billion. Not 120 billion.

zenit.org/rssenglish-29058

There are only 6,864,100,000 people in the entire world according to the US Census Bureau.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Those are REAL numbers. Yours are made up. Just like your definition of “tongues”. =)

 

[anjoh66]

No. There are 1.16 billion. Not 120 billion.

zenit.org/rssenglish-29058

There are only 6,864,100,000 people in the entire world according to the US Census Bureau.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Those are REAL numbers. Yours are made up. Just like your definition of “tongues”. =)

You are right i added 3 zeros to much in each post, but anyhow the percentage is 10 % approx so i would not call it a minority.

You are being sarcastic also, what definition did i ever mention?

I just gave you numbers nothing else, dont behave towards the charismatics as non believers behave against believers.

 

[joe_cool]

You are right i added 3 zeros to much in each post, but anyhow the percentage is 10 % approx so i would not call it a minority.

You are being sarcastic also, what definition did i ever mention?

I just gave you numbers nothing else, dont behave towards the charismatics as non believers behave against believers.

There’s a world of difference between 1.16 billion and 1.2 billion. In this case, 400 million people that don’t exist.

And this 10% number is completely arbitrary. I didn’t get a survey - did you? Was there a study? Then I’ll accept it. Who came up with this number?

It seems like that number came from this book - notice, however, the complete lack of attribution.

The same made-up number can be found on this page:
adherents.com/adh_branches.html

120 000 000 Shiite muslims in the world. WOW. What are the odds?

Let’s compare the deviations in these random guesses, shall we?

 

[catholictiger]

Awesome. So then the homeless are actually Charismatic Missionaries… given they sleep in public? Do YOU feel an overwhelming sense of serenity and peace when you see a sleeping homeless man?

resting and being slain in the spirit are two differnt things

This is not an answer to my question - this is a rationalization.

When you laugh… is it because something is funny? Or is it because other people are laughing?

this comes from expeince but usually people start to laugh becuase they are overwellemed with joy so overwelmed that they show it through laughter the time i got it i was joyous at how much i started to laugh uncontrollably well it was hard to stop.

yes some just laugh because others are laughing.

no your picture doesn’t look that familiar.

… no.

And if you don’t get the scriptural reference - then I would kindly suggest you devote more time to diligent study of Scripture and less time to study of Charismatism - another common failing of the Charismatic movement.

ill admit i don’t focus enough on scripture and I agree I should study scripture more so you got me there. but before today i never heard of the charismatic movement so i didn’t really study it.

ill let the other guy respond to the rest.

 

[Joe_5859]

Whenever a thread begins with “You people…”, I set my expectations pretty low for the conversation that follows.

I know this thread was split, but still!

I think the last thing we need is more labels. I’m not charismatic myself, but I know many people who identify themselves as both charismatic and traditional/orthodox. I know such a concept seems unintelligible to some, but rest assured “those people” are out there.

Here at CAF, I’ve seen many people who have unfortunatley wed “charismatic” and “wacko-tree-hugging-clown-mass-attending-it’s-all-relative-ultra-liberal” together as somehow being synonomous. They are not. Most all the charismatics I know are decidedly “conservative”.

That’s why I think the labeling idea is not useful. Why should a poster have to identify themselves by a descriptor that will only serve to have other posters jump to conclusions and write off what they say before they even say it?

 

[catholictiger]

i thought i go ahead and move this over to a new thread but I was discussing this on the Eucharistic adoration thread

I was wondering what is so wrong with this so called charismatic renewal

ill say this now just to put it out in the thread i have had experiences where i have received gifts of the spirit during adoration so apparently I’m a charismatic catholic becuase i received the gifts.

what is so wrong with this if anything at all.

Im not trying to bash any one’s views in this thread im just trying to understand the disapproval of these things.

I may try and defend this so called charismatic just becuase of my experiences with the gifts of the spirit so we may do alittle arguing in this thread hopefully it won’t get to heated.

I really want to understand this stuff.

thanks

also St. Thomas Aquinas pray for all the people who will be discussing on this thread
Reply With Quote

just to clear thigns up this was the OP of the thread after i posted this thread an amind moved a conversation Joe cool and I had on another thread.

 

[catholictiger]

I think the last thing we need is more labels. I’m not charismatic myself, but I know many people who identify themselves as both charismatic and traditional/orthodox. I know such a concept seems unintelligible to some, but rest assured “those people” are out there

i may fit into that category

im traditional but im nto so traditional that i think we should go back to pre vatican two type liturgy.

But i think music must be changed in many parishes across the country

people need a deeper understanding of the liturgy so they can be more revernt and understand what is going on

posture is important in the mass

try your best ot stick with suggested pslams

but idk if i would consider myself charismatic it just by chance have experienced the gift of the holy spirit, but i don’t go around telling everyone about my experience it just came out in that one thread becuase i related to adoration.

I rather have keep knowledge of the faith and explain my faith that way.

but again i don’t know what being charismatic means well outside of you approve of the gifts of the holy spirit and you think they are a good thing in most cases.

also as you can see i’m a very new poster to this site so i don’t know about some of the posters and what they think.

 

[Joe_5859]

For anyone interested, here is a sampling of what the last two popes have said in regards to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement:

• Address of Pope Benedict XVI to Participants in a Meeting Organized by the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships (October 31, 2008)
• Message of John Paul II to the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships (November 7, 2002)
• Message of John Paul II to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal (April 24, 2000)
• Address of John Paul II to the Participants in the International Conference for Catholic Charismatic Leaders (October 30, 1998)
• Message of John Paul II to the Participants in the 8th International Meeting of the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships (June 1, 1998)
• Address of John Paul II to the Council of the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Office (March 14, 1992)
• Address of John Paul II to the Participants of the Sixth International Assembly of the Charismatic Renewal (May 15, 1987)

 

[Joe_5859]

i may fit into that category

im traditional but im nto so traditional that i think we should go back to pre vatican two type liturgy.

But i think music must be changed in many parishes across the country

people need a deeper understanding of the liturgy so they can be more revernt and understand what is going on

posture is important in the mass

try your best ot stick with suggested pslams

but idk if i would consider myself charismatic it just by chance have experienced the gift of the holy spirit, but i don’t go around telling everyone about my experience it just came out in that one thread becuase i related to adoration.

I rather have keep knowledge of the faith and explain my faith that way.

but again i don’t know what being charismatic means well outside of you approve of the gifts of the holy spirit and you think they are a good thing in most cases.

also as you can see i’m a very new poster to this site so i don’t know about some of the posters and what they think.

Ah yes, I see you are quite new here. Welcome to CAF, catholictiger! (great user name!)

I think there is a tendency (at least within myself if nowhere else) to start thinking in terms of either/or when it comes to using labels as though there are only ever two mutually exclusive possibilities. I am continually trying not to fall into that line of thinking.

When I first came to CAF, I thought of myself as “traditional”, too, because I accept and believe in all that the Church professes and teaches. I have a visceral negative reaction to the phrase “spirit of Vatican II”. I also have strong feelings about the liturgy being celebrated as it is supposed to (i.e. according to the rubrics…read the black, do the red, as they say) and about the unfortunate state of much of the standard OCP/GIA musical offerings of the past 40 years (hymns should be theologically accurate and artistically beautiful).

However, I came here to CAF and it seems that the mere fact that I’ve never been to an EF Mass would preclude me from using this identifier. I still find it somewhat odd that many here seem to have such a narrow definition of “traditional Catholicism” because I know a lot of people like myself who would describe themselves as traditional but would not be accepted as such by some of the regular posters here. But I’ve accepted it and moved on.

 

[catholictiger]

Ah yes, I see you are quite new here. Welcome to CAF, catholictiger! (great user name!)

I think there is a tendency (at least within myself if nowhere else) to start thinking in terms of either/or when it comes to using labels as though there are only ever two mutually exclusive possibilities. I am continually trying not to fall into that line of thinking.

When I first came to CAF, I thought of myself as “traditional”, too, because I accept and believe in all that the Church professes and teaches. I have a visceral negative reaction to the phrase “spirit of Vatican II”. I also have strong feelings about the liturgy being celebrated as it is supposed to (i.e. according to the rubrics…read the black, do the red, as they say) and about the unfortunate state of much of the standard OCP/GIA musical offerings of the past 40 years (hymns should be theologically accurate and artistically beautiful).

However, I came here to CAF and it seems that the mere fact that I’ve never been to an EF Mass would preclude me from using this identifier. I still find it somewhat odd that many here seem to have such a narrow definition of “traditional Catholicism” because I know a lot of people like myself who would describe themselves as traditional but would not be accepted as such by some of the regular posters here. But I’ve accepted it and moved on.

i personally believe there is only one label that should be attached to Catholics and that is catholic

now there are somepeople we can’t call catholics but those are people who publically reject teachings of the church like

the divinity of christ

true presence in the Eucharist (if thats the best way to say it) but im sure you know the Eucharist is the body soul and divinity of christ.

abortion

euthanasia

the trinity

along with other thigns

if you reject these teachings you shouldn’t be considered catholic

like nacy pelosi she isn’t a catholic even though she calls her self one.

i think the labeling of people and then stereotyping is a move by satan to try and tear down the church from within. So we need to be careful with this.

there is nothing wrong with pointing out the faults of people but don’t label people and then think everyone who shows any sort of hint like that think they are crazy as the crazies.

If we want to change the world we must do it as one catholic church not 10 different versions of the catholic faith and those don’t want to have to do anything with the other parts of the church.

 

[joe_cool]

If we want to change the world we must do it as one catholic church not 10 different versions of the catholic faith

Hypocrite.

I reiterate my previous series of points:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6983643&postcount=22

 

[catholictiger]

Hypocrite.

are you saying labeling people is good i understand labeling people as bad catholics meaning they should be catholic, i still think there should still be one you are either catholic or you aren’t, i don’t think we can make it any simpler

or are you just joking

im gullible by the way so be carful when you make jokes

 

[joe_cool]

are you saying labeling people is good i understand labeling people as bad catholics meaning they should be catholic, i still think there should still be one you are either catholic or you aren’t, i don’t think we can make it any simpler

or are you just joking

im gullible by the way so be carful when you make jokes

You, being a Charismatic… just stated that:

If we want to change the world we must do it as one catholic church not 10 different versions of the catholic faith

The Charismatic Catholic Renewal IS your personal version of the Catholic faith. It’s a movement started by the laity which did not exist prior to February 1967. Before then, there WAS NO “charismatic mass”.

You are guilty of the very thing you just advocated against.

That makes you a hypocrite.

 

[joe_cool]

I have a visceral negative reaction to the phrase “spirit of Vatican II”.

It is the very spirit which allowed the foundation of the Charismatic Renewal.

You, sir, are also a hypocrite.

 

[catholictiger]

You, being a Charismatic… just stated that:

The Charismatic Catholic Renewal IS your personal version of the Catholic faith. It’s a movement started by the laity which did not exist prior to February 1967. Before then, there WAS NO “charismatic mass”.

You are guilty of the very thing you just advocated against.

That makes you a hypocrite.

the only thing that makes me charismatic is that i received gifts in adoration.

i never said i supported a charismatic mass.

I attend the cathedral of our diocese and there they play hymns with organ no contemporary music

no variations from the words that are for the Eucharistic prayer the name slips my mind at the moment.

no liturgical dance

no clapping during the mass

no sitting when you should be kneeling

and so on and so forth

its not a Latin mass but it is more traditional then many of the other churches in my diocese.

you are making judgments based off little information

label people as catholic or non catholic its pretty simple.