CHARISMATIC HYSTERIA

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abyzantine catholic, that is soo great, I agree with you. It seems you are a very intelligent catholic that is not caught up in emotion/entertainment masses. It’s funny how some here STILL refuse to accept that certain charismatic masses give birth to liturgical abuse. I wish the church had many well read catholics as aByzantine. You, know, as a friend pastor who is well connected in the Vatican, and has been a local Pastor here told me, “don’t waste yourtime…you cannot ever convince fanatics, who have fanatical worship ideas, in the fasion of the “sect” they are trying to imitate, the pentecostal”. Try talking to a pentecostal, or a baptist about church truth and tradition: they KNOW you are right, but still refuse to listen, out of personal whims. It seems here that for some, the electric guitar, drum, dancing hips:clapping: moving side to side:dancing: in mass, is the only way they KNOW how to worship. You see, they believe that in order to adore God (they hardly ever mention the Blessed Mother and devotion to her or the saints: just like pentecostals) one HAS to make noise in mass, otherwise God will NOT here them, and well God wants you to scream aleluya, speak in a language :whacky: no one ever heard, becuase only they know (just like the gnostic/montanist heresy), those are the CORRECT way of worshiping. :yup:
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 I will repeat, I as well as many catholic friends and family members do not need worship hints from pentecostals, but we will only  stick with the 2000 year tradition of catholic only worship.
  :tiphat:
Many blessings to all.
 
Please note, that any post here of mine is not meant to offend anyone. If I have persoanlly in one way or another offend anyone I apologize with all my heart. I do recognize we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. However, there are differences in opinion as to methods of worship, and I belive this is a wonderful forum to have had discussed that.
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My method of worshiping in Mass is more traditional, but others do have very different ways of worshiping.  I am sure we all love God and the Church.
       Blessings.:blessyou:
 
you will know them by their fruits:amen:
many priests have come from the renewal:yup:
many contemporary prophets-Fr. Groeschel, Fr, Scanlon, Ralph Martin, Peter Herbeck, Sr. Ann Shields, Patti Mansfield, Sr.Briege , Fr. Kevin Scalon, Fr. Contalamessa, etc.👋
It’s just about a personal relationship with Christ.Eucharistic Adoration is part of every major Charismatic gathering- is that what wacko’s do???
the Renewal is not dying. 8,000 just attended a retreat in 1 town in Italy.:clapping: the Holy Spirit is renewing the face of the Earth.:blessyou:
 
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kragar:
you will know them by their fruits:amen:
many priests have come from the renewal:yup:
many contemporary prophets-Fr. Groeschel, Fr, Scanlon, Ralph Martin, Peter Herbeck, Sr. Ann Shields, Patti Mansfield, Sr.Briege , Fr. Kevin Scalon, Fr. Contalamessa, etc.👋
It’s just about a personal relationship with Christ.Eucharistic Adoration is part of every major Charismatic gathering- is that what wacko’s do???
the Renewal is not dying. 8,000 just attended a retreat in 1 town in Italy.:clapping: the Holy Spirit is renewing the face of the Earth.:blessyou:
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With all love and respect here, first: the Holy Ghost has been renewing the face of the Earth since the start of time. After all, as the Book of Genesis states: God’s spirit moved across the waters, etc. (the creation story) and continues to work in each baptized Catholic everytime their soul is in a state of Sanctifying Grace. Not to mention everytime they receive the Sacraments.
Secondly, no one has to accept what a priest or other says out of his persoanl opinions. One MUST however obey what has been defined as Ex-Cathedra, or dogma. For the many opinions of the priests cited here, their are also many other theologians, especially who follow the Thomistic Philosophy and Theology, who would say the contrary of the ones you here site.
Mqany blessings, and all my respect.
 
I also ask forgiveness of anyone that I may have offended.

Here is some recommended reading on this subject from a list:

One is called “A New Pentecost?” by Cardinal Suenans. This has recently been republished and is his examination of the “movement” and whether it is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit. It has been recently republished by FIAT (Belgium) - ISBN 90 75410-07-7.

The second is a book called “The Glory and the Shame” by Fr Peter Hocken (1994 - Eagle, England) - ISBN 0 86347 117 X.

There are also some other writings that might be useful including extracts from Vatican II and some encyclycals and letters from the popes etc. These give a background to the theology of renewal which has really hardly been touched on in the 100 years or so it has been with us.

Finally if you are feeling very studious I recommend a book called “Movements in the Church” published by the Pontifical Council for the Laity and is the text of the proceedings of a great gathering of the “new movements” (World Congress of Ecclisial Movements") which took place in Rome 27-29th May 1998. The particular item I’d especially recommend is the chapter “The Ecclesial Movements: A Theological Reflection on their Place in the Church.” This is by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger and is tough going but ultimately rewarding.

Finally in all this reading and study there are two things we should not neglect. These are prayerful reading of scripture and actually talking to our loving God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in union with Mary and the Saints and the fellowship of the faith community, the People of God.
 
Good Morning Church

Being a very new member of these boards, I want to say that I found this a very fine thread, too. It would appear that it might be killed and buried and I find that rather disturbing. I would much prefer to see it left open for folks to contribute as the Spirit might lead them at some point.
However, it may be that other threads on the Charismatic Renewal will pop up at one time or another.
I see much need for education in this area. Contrary to some of the posts here, the Charismatic Renewal is not going to go away until the Holy Spirit decides it will. In my opinion, that is not going to be anytime in the very near future. The SCRC Conference in Anaheim, CA is still growing and numbers almost 15,000 people.
It is indeed a lovely thing that I see apologies expressed here. They will know we are Christians by how we love one another. The fact is, Catholics are passionate. That is a good sign of the Holy Spirit abiding and working in each of us. We learn to defend what we believe and do it with zeal. That is true of us Charismatics and also true of those who do not accept us.
For those of you who do not accept us and feel and express this passion, I want to applaud you!
Yes! I think you are wonderful! The Church is full of folks who lack fire and the guts to defend what they believe. We see it far to often in the Clergy. You defend Holy Mother Church like true Christian soldiers. I know you see us as a threat. It is better that you rise up and speak out against what you see as threats than to sit in apathy and do nothing, say nothing.
Debate, should always leave us with a little more knowledge. I pray that we Charismatics have learned to use the gift of discernment wisely and always be watchful of abuses and disobedience to Holy Mother Church.
For those who oppose us, I pray you read one good book written by a leader in the Charismatic Renewal. You have read much that are against the Renewal, please read and see the other side.
For everyone, let this increase your prayer life. Pray, pray, pray that the Holy Spirit makes us love more and bring us closer to the Holy Trinity and our Blessed Mother and indeed all the Saints.
I thank you all for making this a mighty fine discussion board.

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With all kindness and respect, I really hope that this discussion forum is not eliminated. After all, this is a discussion forum which highly values the differing opinions and theological points of view. Is not this what happens even between members of the College of Cardinals, or even within the vatican’s Curial offices themselves at times.

With all charity and respect to all,
misericordie.
 
Our diocese allows charismatic Masses, and our parish has one on tuesday night and it gets pretty full. However most of them still attend Sunday Mass, most of them are older. It is very popular here where I live, majority are Hispanic, Mexican-American.

Our preist once joked that we need to be careful because the protestants might take our charasmatics away.
 
Another excellent book which provides Scriptural exegesis of this movement and some of its history and its fruits: 😃

"The Call To Holiness: reflections on The Catholic Charismatic Renewal” by Archbishop Paul Josef Cordes, published by The Liturgical Press, Collegeville, Minnesota.
 
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misericordie:
There is a great Catholic Encyclopedia web site which has an article on the montanist heresy.

It is: www.newadvent.org :tiphat:
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Thank you for the link. It was more historical than theological, but still useful.
 
It sounds like we are forgetting this is a Catholic forum and we should not be so judgemental. 😦 Let’s try a little understanding here! I can honestly say that of the most spiritual “Catholic” people I know many are involved in Charismatic renewal (2 are priest, 1 who does speak in tongues). They are very orthodox Catholic. I have attended a few Charismatic Masses but am not involved in the Renewal. I can also say I witnessed a priest friend pray when someone at a prayer service in which the person being prayed with was slain in the spirit. The proest had never been to a Charismatic prayer service beforre and thought he had killed the person or something:eek: The priest told me that he felt what he discribed a the force come through him to the woman that he knew was from God. Maybe like all things because the Church is made of human beings somethings are brought to extremes. Yet many are of God. Just my humble opinion.
 
robertag and Makerteacher,

Thank you very much for your kindness and patience, for sharing and explaining. You actually eased my anxiety with my own discomfort, if that makes any sense!

Please continue to pray for our Church. I thank God that we have people like you.

God bless you.
 
I invite (with all do respect, for the sake of theological discussion) all here to compare and contrast the old gnostic heresy, together with the montanist heresy, and many similarities(speaking in tongues, etc., having a the claim that the Holy Ghost gives all revelation to only a few, etc.,) with certain aspects of the present day “renewal movement.”
 
Hi Church

Hi Misericordie

I really meant to give that smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_100.gifto you,too.
I have been in many discussion and chat groups over the past
11 years. I most often join in groups discussing the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. As you must imagine, I have been treated very badly by Catholics who do not understand or like us.

You, however, are one of the kindest, most generous and also the most open minded people I have met.

You have firm opinions but you always go back to the respectful and it would seem, affectionat and loving Catholic. You ask questions, even like the one you just asked.

I wish I could join in on this. I actually taught Church History. I am or should be very familiar with the heresys. My problem?
I just finished lung cancer surgery and 7 weeks of radiation and it has (prayerfully) temporarily, interferred with my short term memory and I have horrible problems pulling up information I should know easily.

I will leave this to folks who can.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, we ask in your mighty name that you restore to Roberta all that the locust have eaten. Return, as from the rich soil from which man was created, all of the nutriants, vitamins, and minerals necessary to restore her to complete health. Give her clearity of mind and thought that she may join together with the chiors of angels and all you saints, triumphant and militant, in glorious praise to you, her Creator, Redeemer, and King. Amen.
 
Pani Rose:
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, we ask in your mighty name that you restore to Roberta all that the locust have eaten. Return, as from the rich soil from which man was created, all of the nutriants, vitamins, and minerals necessary to restore her to complete health. Give her clearity of mind and thought that she may join together with the chiors of angels and all you saints, triumphant and militant, in glorious praise to you, her Creator, Redeemer, and King. Amen.
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Amen.
 
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