Charismatic Mass

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Some have commented that there is no such thing as a “charismatic” mass. In one sense that is true, but in that same way there is no such thing as a sung mass, or high mass, or low mass, or any other such mass, for there is but one Mass. For me, “charismatic” is simply descriptive, indicating that at that particular celebration of the mass, there is a charismatic aspect to it, just as a “sung mass” indicates that there is a “sung” aspect to that particular celebration of the mass.
 
Of note, I wanted to include this quotation from *Lumen Gentium *26
Every legitimate celebration of the Eucharist is regulated by the bishop, to whom is committed the office of offering the worship of Christian religion to the Divine Majesty and of administering it in accordance with the Lord’s commandments and the Church’s laws, as further defined by his particular judgment for his diocese.
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(This passage also quoted from a letter by Cardinal Arinze entitled Active Participation Reconsidered as found at adoremus.org/1004Arinze.html )

As Cardinal Arinze stated elsewhere in that letter, the bishop is the chief liturgist of his own diocese. As such, it is with our bishop’s explicit permission that my parish has been able to incorporate a charismatic aspect into our regular celebrations of Mass.
 
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Prometheum_x:
Of note, I wanted to include this quotation from *Lumen Gentium *26

(This passage also quoted from a letter by Cardinal Arinze entitled Active Participation Reconsidered as found at adoremus.org/1004Arinze.html )

As Cardinal Arinze stated elsewhere in that letter, the bishop is the chief liturgist of his own diocese. As such, it is with our bishop’s explicit permission that my parish has been able to incorporate a charismatic aspect into our regular celebrations of Mass.
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That is good. But a liturgical abuse is still a liturgical abuse even if the bishop likes and allows it.

Cardinal Arinze was in no way saying that a bishop may add to or take away from the instructions that are produced by the Vatican.

There are some aspects that the bishop can affect but those are spelt out.
 
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TeAmo:
Hey, can you guys give me your opinion on this scenario?

I go to mass in a community that’s largely charismatic. During the Great Amen, the musicians often go into “extended praise;” i.e. for a minute they and the rest of the congregation (and generally the priest as well) will speak in tongues, praise out loud, etc. Then they repeat the Amen again.

I’m uncomfortable with this and suspect that it’s not allowed.
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It is acceptable as far as I know. If you arent comfortable you should attend a different Parish.
 
For awhile I was involved in the Charismatic group at my parish.

I think some of you have never actually taken the time to actually see what it’s about…you have preferred to make your opinions from afar. The problem with that tactic is that you don’t get to know the people involved or what they are reallly about. Poor conclusions are made from that sort of thing.

I was involved for awhile, and I have discerned that it is not for me. I recently blogged about this.

But I will say that my experience with them garnered many lasting friendships, both charismatic and not, and brought me much closer to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. I have a better understanding of the Holy Spirit, a greater understanding of the gifts and a greater understanding of the sacraments.

The prayer group I was involved with (and may still occasionally attend) was not exclusive by any means. They often get together with other groups at other parishes.

There are abuses, but that’s true of many movements and groups. The Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi have both had problems with some archdioceses, and I don’t know that it’s a widespread problem, but maybe with the local management of those groups. The Charismatic movement is no different.

What I found with most of the Charismatcis that I know is that although they are stuck in a rut and they have horrible taste in music, they are largely very faithful Catholics, very welcoming, very loving, and my life is better for knowing them.

Regarding the topic of the Mass, I am also very uncomfortable with this. I’m glad I went to a Charismatic mass, but it’s not my thing. It was very reverent, although there was “extended praise”, but it was not overwhelming. My greater objection was to the too-loud “rock” music, which, while liturgical music, and music I mostly liked, was too loud and after Communion I was not able to meditate. That’s a problem.

But for some people they draw a greater connection to Jesus by responding not contemplatively, but by singing at the top of their lungs. God bless them.

It’s not my thing, but those who are sincere and placing more emphasis on the sacraments and not the gifts find great spiritual growth.

If you are not comfortable with it, you may want to find another parish. Pray about it. God always provides what is needed.
 
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HOFseminarian:
I go to a univeristy that is overwhelmingly Charismatic, personaly I believe that the Charismatics are wrong. I just want to know, are they there for exercise and entertainment, or are they there for the real purpose ?
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The charismatics I have met are there for a real prupose - praising God. Interestingly, it often makes other Catholics uncomfortable, as they are not used to enthusiastic and extended praise.

What is it you believe the charismatics are wrong about?
 
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Balance:
all this… I don’t know. just because a documnet says “do this” doesn’t mean that there mightn’t be something else we can do as well as that.
For example,
I bet tthe instructions on the sign of peace don’t say anything specific about smiling, or couples giving each other a kiss instead of shaking hands, or a dad ruffling his toddler’s hair, or even flicking a peace sign when you can’t reach your friend down the end of the row - but this is all quite acceptable surely?

I wonder what would happen if more people remembered that Mass is a community celebration, not just something between them and God and woe betide any one who messes with their private devotion by living life to the full?
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That might depend on whether one has a philosphy of law that is Germanic in origin, or one that is Mediteranian based.
 
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A.Pelliccio:
Just because individual Popes having given their blessing to groups does not make them holy, worthy of praise, or justify them. Certain modern pontifs have meet with moslems, pagans, and hereitics and have shared pray, broke bread, and blessed them. The road to hell is lined with the bones of bad bishops and Popes.
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It is also lined with the bones of individuals who put their own interpretation of right and wrong over the expressions of the Church.
 
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ByzCath:
That is good. But a liturgical abuse is still a liturgical abuse even if the bishop likes and allows it.

Cardinal Arinze was in no way saying that a bishop may add to or take away from the instructions that are produced by the Vatican.

There are some aspects that the bishop can affect but those are spelt out.
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Certainly, a liturgical abuse is a liturgical abuse. But, who makes the determination whether something is a liturgical abuse? Certainly, the Pope does. But doesn’t the bishop also have that responsibility? Rome has not produced an exhaustive list of all known liturgical abuses (never mind the impossibility of detailing those yet to occur). Thus I would think the bishop has the responsibility of addressing those areas which Rome has yet to address.

Where are the aspects that a bishop can affect spelled out?
 
Honestly ,
With all due respect , I am a devoted catholic . I preach , I serve , and much more . I am one of those preachers that doesn’t preach religion but I preach the word of God . The charismatic renewal does exactly what the bible tells us what to do . I was once a pentecostal and it was an amazing experience . But I found God in the mother church . The bible tell us in 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. So why are you guys trying to forbid. The word of God is what he is telling us. But the Roman Missal , Etc. was written by people just like you and me . So which would seem to be more accurate ?
 
AlexGonzalez15 said:
Honestly ,
With all due respect , I am a devoted catholic . I preach , I serve , and much more . I am one of those preachers that doesn’t preach religion but I preach the word of God . The charismatic renewal does exactly what the bible tells us what to do . I was once a pentecostal and it was an amazing experience . But I found God in the mother church . The bible tell us in 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. So why are you guys trying to forbid. The word of God is what he is telling us. But the Roman Missal , Etc. was written by people just like you and me . So which would seem to be more accurate ?
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Just to let you know, there is currently a moratorium on this topic.
 
AlexGonzalez15 said:
Honestly ,
With all due respect , I am a devoted catholic . I preach , I serve , and much more . I am one of those preachers that doesn’t preach religion but I preach the word of God . The charismatic renewal does exactly what the bible tells us what to do . I was once a pentecostal and it was an amazing experience . But I found God in the mother church . The bible tell us in 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. So why are you guys trying to forbid. The word of God is what he is telling us. But the Roman Missal , Etc. was written by people just like you and me . So which would seem to be more accurate ?
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My friend, the Roman Missal was not written by people just like you and me. The Roman Missal was promulgated by the apostolic authority of the successor of St. Peter. Consider what Our Lord said to St. Peter:
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16 - NAB
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Elsewhere Jesus says to his Apostles - Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me* (Mat. 10:40)

Jesus gave His apostles and their successors authority to act in His name…the liturgy is the prayer of the Church - it is our corporate act of worship. The liturgy is not the private devotion of any one Christian - through the liturgy the body of Christ speaks as one voice - the voice of Christ, in whose Name the pope and bishops speak - and offers up its prayer to the Father. The binding and loosing authority that Jesus gave to the bishops makes the texts of the mass the most powerful prayers on this earth for they become, on earth and in heaven, the prayer of the Church, and thus the prayer of Christ Himself.

No one is forbidding the gift of tongues. If you have the gift of tongues, it is a gift that can be used to edify oneself as well as the body… but there is a time and place for everything. I would invite you to carefully reflect upon the words of St. Paul in 1 Corithians 12. St. Paul, by the authority of binding and loosing that was given to him, restricts the use of tongues in the primitive liturgy of the Corinthian Church - he commands them to speak in tongues no more than 2 or 3 times per liturgy, and only then if there is an interpreter. St. Paul does not restrict the use of tongues outside of the liturgy (Ie. in private devotions/prayers), but he does define its appropriate use during the liturgy. The Church today, by the same authority that St. Paul exercised, has, to ensure unity in worship, provided us with other guidelines to ensure that our corporate offering to the Father is orderly… after all, our God is a God of order, not of chaos (1 Cor 14:33)
 
AlexGonzalez15 said:
Honestly ,
With all due respect , I am a devoted catholic . I preach , I serve , and much more . I am one of those preachers that doesn’t preach religion but I preach the word of God . The charismatic renewal does exactly what the bible tells us what to do . I was once a pentecostal and it was an amazing experience . But I found God in the mother church . The bible tell us in 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. So why are you guys trying to forbid. The word of God is what he is telling us. But the Roman Missal , Etc. was written by people just like you and me . So which would seem to be more accurate ?
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Dude, you sound like a protestant. There’s more to the church then the bible.
 
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