Charismatic Renewal in decline?

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This “Overview on Charismatics” just came out yesterday:
zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=61063
which again mentions the number involved in Charismatic Renewal is 120 millions. How do they come up with this figure?
I’ve seen in a diocese of over 120 parishes, with approx. 450k
faithfuls, there are only few Charismatic groups with about 20 to
30 each.

Also this CR leader uses the term “Baptism in the Holy Spirit”. I read from other Conference of Bishops guide which says it should be called the “Outpouring of the Holy Spirit” so not to be confused
with the sacramental Baptism and/or Confirmation.
 
I DON"T THINK SO…

The Catholic ministry called Couples for Christ (CFC)is on the increase and moving rapidly. CFC is a Charismatic organization.

The CFC is in all 50 states and in over 120 countries with over 1.5 million members, and growing.
 
Originally Posted by Karl Keating:
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*Whatever one might think of the charismatic movement within the Catholic Church, one thing seems undeniable: The movement is in decline.

Twenty and thirty years ago its conferences were many, and they drew thousands of people. Today there are far fewer conferences, and they tend to draw much smaller crowds.

There was enough interest in the charismatic movement, at one time, to support a monthly magazine, “New Covenant.” Over a long stretch of years the magazine lost subscribers. Eventually it changed its focus, away from the charismatic movement, but even that wasn’t enough to keep it alive.

There used to be many “covenant communities” and other associations arising out of the charismatic movement. Most of them have diminished in size, fissioned, or just disappeared.

A much smaller proportion of Catholics identifies itself as charismatic today, as compared to several decades ago.

Some members of these forums may have the perception that the movement is growing in their areas–and it may be. On the whole, though, the movement is in decline. It might be instructive to think why this might be and what it might say about the movement.*
Encouraging!
 
I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in 1989 at the age of 36 which gave me the instantaneous power to break the slavery of sin to pornography and saved my marriage. Since defining where this blessing fits in Catholic tradition and sacraments seemed hard to define, alot of us felt that this was for all Christians and it was irrelevant if you were Catholic or Protestant. The inability of the parish priest to help made matters worse. I should have gone to the bishop to get more information but I never thought it, we just went elsewhere to church. I even got to the point that one should avoid any building with a steeple because I was told I was in error by Catholics and Protestants. Yet, I know what happened to me and it took a nominal, adulterer, sentimental pietist and converted him to a lover of Jesus, alive in spiritual things, all in accordance with scripture. We have returned to the Catholic Church and believe this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ and is apostolic from the time of Peter. Equally scriptural is the ‘power from on high’ that Jesus promised. In the book of Acts disciples were baptized in water, then with hands laid on them they received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, not giving a message to interpret but glorifying God. I received what they did and received power to witness Jesus in my life. Here is my hypothesis of which I am researching to find out if it may be true: I believe that somewhere in time intellectuals gained advantage in the Church founded on an unlearned rock and according to some ancient writings the ecstatics were out of control and needed to be stopped. This is when the sacrament of confirmation lost its scriptural and normative expression, the Spirit had been quenched. There have been many abuses in Church history and this is but one of them. Still God is faithful and guided His Church through disasterous times and we are still apostolically here. I believe there were Charismatics/Ecstatics throughout history. I believe discouragement is in the movement in some places, some places it is alive and well, because of this persecution today, because of some excesses and bad doctrine, and insufficient leadership. Many are called, few are chosen and broad is the way, narrow is the gate. Numbers never tell the story for God always has those that are reserved for Him. The animosity or indifference I feel from other Catholics still astounds me but I am staying Catholic and I am staying Baptized in the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues. More of us are returning to the Church everyday. From what I hear from the National Charismatic Service Center and other sources we are re-grouping and going forward. Remember, most saints suffered persecution for their revelations by the ones that were closest to them and history bore them out. Thanks for ‘listening’ and looking forward to your responses.
 
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gtrenewed:
I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in 1989 at the age of 36 which gave me the instantaneous power to break the slavery of sin to pornography and saved my marriage. Since defining where this blessing fits in Catholic tradition and sacraments seemed hard to define, alot of us felt that this was for all Christians and it was irrelevant if you were Catholic or Protestant. The inability of the parish priest to help made matters worse. I should have gone to the bishop to get more information but I never thought it, we just went elsewhere to church. I even got to the point that one should avoid any building with a steeple because I was told I was in error by Catholics and Protestants. Yet, I know what happened to me and it took a nominal, adulterer, sentimental pietist and converted him to a lover of Jesus, alive in spiritual things, all in accordance with scripture. We have returned to the Catholic Church and believe this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ and is apostolic from the time of Peter. Equally scriptural is the ‘power from on high’ that Jesus promised. In the book of Acts disciples were baptized in water, then with hands laid on them they received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, not giving a message to interpret but glorifying God. I received what they did and received power to witness Jesus in my life. Here is my hypothesis of which I am researching to find out if it may be true: I believe that somewhere in time intellectuals gained advantage in the Church founded on an unlearned rock and according to some ancient writings the ecstatics were out of control and needed to be stopped. This is when the sacrament of confirmation lost its scriptural and normative expression, the Spirit had been quenched. There have been many abuses in Church history and this is but one of them. Still God is faithful and guided His Church through disasterous times and we are still apostolically here. I believe there were Charismatics/Ecstatics throughout history. I believe discouragement is in the movement in some places, some places it is alive and well, because of this persecution today, because of some excesses and bad doctrine, and insufficient leadership. Many are called, few are chosen and broad is the way, narrow is the gate. Numbers never tell the story for God always has those that are reserved for Him. The animosity or indifference I feel from other Catholics still astounds me but I am staying Catholic and I am staying Baptized in the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues. More of us are returning to the Church everyday. From what I hear from the National Charismatic Service Center and other sources we are re-grouping and going forward. Remember, most saints suffered persecution for their revelations by the ones that were closest to them and history bore them out. Thanks for ‘listening’ and looking forward to your responses.
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Praise God for you perciverence. And that is why we are to take up the cross dayly,being like Christ and all that he suffered for.To live for Christ is to die for Christ. 👍 Please God let us be open to every Gift you have in store for us. 😉
 
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RichT:
Not as un-catholic as un-charitable posts like this one.
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I agree…I don’t understand why he calls it un-Catholic when it has the approval of the Holy Father? What else about this does he not understand? If Rome approves, then so do I!
Annunciata:)
 
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gtrenewed:
Here is my hypothesis of which I am researching to find out if it may be true: I believe that somewhere in time intellectuals gained advantage in the Church founded on an unlearned rock and according to some ancient writings the ecstatics were out of control and needed to be stopped. This is when the sacrament of confirmation lost its scriptural and normative expression, the Spirit had been quenched.
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regarding the sacrament of confirmation…, can you show me where you got this info? thanks.
 
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Annunciata:
I agree…I don’t understand why he calls it un-Catholic when it has the approval of the Holy Father? What else about this does he not understand? If Rome approves, then so do I!
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can we not talk about approval or not like in other threads?
Do you think the 120 million charismatic Catholics figure sounds correct to you? That’s approx 12% of all Catholics? So based on what I’ve seen in diocese I belong to, and from what I read, it’s very much inflated (for what reason I have no idea). What percentage of faithfuls in your diocese belong to, or attending charismatic prayer groups?

Also, even from charismatic resources I’ve read, the movement as a whole is in decline. People have moved on to other comtemplative prayer, Marian, or other devotional groups.
 
What we see in the natural is not what is happening in the supernatural. God is in control. God is raising up an army of spirit filled christians to do battle against the EVIL one. There are many in the rcc who try to stifle Gods spirit. Just think for a moment? How many of you have heard your Pastor speak of this movement.? How can it grow when your own leaders dont promote it.Many do not know it even exists.Its like its a secret.Ive all ways thought to myself why? Is it because they are afraid of it. Is it because they dont have the time to get involved.Or is it that they just dont believe it is of God.? Once again I know God is in control. He will select those who say HERE I AM LORD, I am open to your Spirit. God bless.
 
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gtrenewed:
The animosity or indifference I feel from other Catholics still astounds me but I am staying Catholic and I am staying Baptized in the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues.
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I do not like to see anyone taking pleasure in the decline of what has helped so many. We have to keep the theolgy straight. Confirmation is the sacrament that conveys the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The phrase “Baptized in the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues” is not found in the Bible, nor is it part of the Tradition of the Church. If I am mistake, perhaps you can tell me where in the Bible, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church or the Councils/Tradition this has been taught.

I would never presume to judge anyone’s devotional practice or experience, as long as it is not held out to be the norm or “superior” form of spirituality.
 
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gnome:
can we not talk about approval or not like in other threads?
Do you think the 120 million charismatic Catholics figure sounds correct to you? That’s approx 12% of all Catholics? So based on what I’ve seen in diocese I belong to, and from what I read, it’s very much inflated (for what reason I have no idea). What percentage of faithfuls in your diocese belong to, or attending charismatic prayer groups?

Also, even from charismatic resources I’ve read, the movement as a whole is in decline. People have moved on to other comtemplative prayer, Marian, or other devotional groups.
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Hi Gnome,

I think I responded to your remark that the CCR was not Catholic and I said that if it has the approval of the HF that was good enough for me….

That said, I have no idea how many Charismatic there are in the world or in my Archdiocese of Boston…only thing I know is lately I’ve had a very deep yearning… growing daily to return to the CCR! The is indeed the “New Springtime” in the Church! I feel the Holy Spirit calling….

I left the CCR many years ago due to the human element that creeps into any group…mostly stemming from PRIDE. I left and pursed other ways of worship within the Church and find all worship of God beautiful!! However, that beautiful sharing and praying and praising together for each other in the CCR is calling to me….

Recently in our parish we formed a new prayer group called The Rosary Group lest anyone have the misconception that it is Charismatic. This is rather sad but it is due to our pastor who claims to be Charismatic and he’s really not…everyone knows it…by the fruits…(he gives it a bad rap)…I just keep praying for a Charismatic Prayer Group will come near…or better still maybe this is how it will begin with Mary…

People are hungry for God! Why must there always be this dissention …can’t we just accept each other as we are…none of us is the same…we were all created uniquely and have our own special relationship and way we pray to God.

There is nothing so beautiful as the Catholic Church and I’m just so glad I made that decision so many years ago to come home the fullness of the Faith.

God Bless, Annunciata:)
 
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Annunciata:
Hi Gnome,

I think I responded to your remark that the CCR was not Catholic and I said that if it has the approval of the HF that was good enough for me….

That said, I have no idea how many Charismatic there are in the world or in my Archdiocese of Boston…only thing I know is lately I’ve had a very deep yearning… growing daily to return to the CCR! The is indeed the “New Springtime” in the Church! I feel the Holy Spirit calling….

I left the CCR many years ago due to the human element that creeps into any group…mostly stemming from PRIDE. I left and pursed other ways of worship within the Church and find all worship of God beautiful!! However, that beautiful sharing and praying and praising together for each other in the CCR is calling to me….

Recently in our parish we formed a new prayer group called The Rosary Group lest anyone have the misconception that it is Charismatic. This is rather sad but it is due to our pastor who claims to be Charismatic and he’s really not…everyone knows it…by the fruits…(he gives it a bad rap)…I just keep praying for a Charismatic Prayer Group will come near…or better still maybe this is how it will begin with Mary…

People are hungry for God! Why must there always be this dissention …can’t we just accept each other as we are…none of us is the same…we were all created uniquely and have our own special relationship and way we pray to God.

There is nothing so beautiful as the Catholic Church and I’m just so glad I made that decision so many years ago to come home the fullness of the Faith.

God Bless, Annunciata:)
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Many priests are very charismatic at the Alter,but step down and they are an entirely different person. Is Father Mcdonner still up on mission Hill? :confused:
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Many priests are very charismatic at the Alter,but step down and they are an entirely different person. Is Father Mcdonner still up on mission Hill? :confused:
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I’m not sure as I haven’t been in touch… I know that Fr. D’Orio started his Ministry in the CCR shortly after a visit to him! Isn’t it McDonough? Anyway, I now of a few priests who went to him to disprove… and came out with the JOY of the LORD! And, some miraculous healings came forth from them. I received many ‘inner healings’ at that time …mid Seventies…oooh! I’m feeling so old today… I was one of the founders of our prayer group at that time also.
Pray for our “Rosary Prayer Group”…let’s see whether there is a decline or not. We meet on Mondays and I’m getting a lot of “spiritual stuff”:bigyikes: … God Bless and Praise The Lord! Annunciata:)

p.s. I know Mary will help… after all she is the spouse of the Holy Spirit!👍
 
Do you think the 120 million charismatic Catholics figure sounds correct to you? That’s approx 12% of all Catholics?
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Yes. May I add one more comment? It seems we are outnumbered on this forum, but this also is a distortion.

A large proportion of regulars choose not to post on these threads. It would be interesting to see how many just do not care one way or another and how many are not willing to engage in debate with people who are unable to carry a theological discussion, resort to uncharitable behavior, use debatable clichés, such as if its good enough for the Pope, its good enough for me, or at best rely on subjective experiences and personal testimonies. Then we have the fallen away Catholics; Protestants really, and these also tend to come out of the woodwork and push for the renewal. Am I correct Word? What are you doing on this thread adding to the confusion with your own confused state of spirituality? Do we really need a Pentecostal dishing out advice to Catholics?

The movement is in decline and all that is: a movement. There were others in the course of the last 2000 years that have died out or was rooted out by the Church. We cannot see the forest from the trees, and so there is this impression of a takeover, but really, it has been less than four decades. Some movements persisted over several hundred years before they were shown to the door. It will happen with the renewal also. It is nothing more than a protestant assault on the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. But, of course we all know the Church will be victorious in the end.
 
We have over 7000 families registered at my charismatic parish in the diocese of Phoenix. I know many who drive up to an hour to attend mass there. Maybe the declines in the other dioceses around the country are because they are all moving to Phoenix. Overall decline? With groups like Life Teen which is a very charismatic group I would say the numbers are growing.
 
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pnewton:
I do not like to see anyone taking pleasure in the decline of what has helped so many. We have to keep the theolgy straight. Confirmation is the sacrament that conveys the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The phrase “Baptized in the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues” is not found in the Bible, nor is it part of the Tradition of the Church. If I am mistake, perhaps you can tell me where in the Bible, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church or the Councils/Tradition this has been taught.

I would never presume to judge anyone’s devotional practice or experience, as long as it is not held out to be the norm or “superior” form of spirituality.
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My charismatic ways of worship are quite the norm for me and the 7000 plus families registered at my parish. Thats not to say it is the norm for everyone. As far as biblical evidence, read the book af Acts. In particular read about Pentecost and the way the apostles were baptized by the Holy Spirit and then spoke in other tongues.
 
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