Charismatic Renewal Still Active?

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In some ways it seems opposite of the Latin Mass which is highly structured, very formal and precise while with Charismatic anything can happen. That is not a criticism of either but and acknowledgement of the diversity available to us.
 
Basically saying it is Charismatic mass is a misnomer, though the term it is used in the Charismatic circle. They know what it entails however, which is basically an OF mass with lively songs and music. To an outsider, that could be indeed abnormal and even sacrilegous. There are reasons for their usage but as it is always with liturgy, things can be very legalistic. It is not the scope of this thread.

It can be called healing mass if healing service is incorporated. Then we also can say there is no such thing as a healing mass since all mass should be healing in nature.
 
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Today there is less mass celebrated purposely for the Charismatics especially if the diocese has implented GIRM as the norm for the mass. It is alright with the Charismatics, since in the first place they have truly been in love with the mass and their submission to the local bishop would not make this a big problem.

In the seventies or even eighties, admittedly many problems arise between the clergy and the lay leaders of the Charismatic Renewal. It was a new phenomenon, and the latter had little experience in handling relationship with their local clergy.

Their popularity in a local parish can be threatening to the clergy too.

Today the Charismatic Renewal may be less prominent, and if that is so, it shows it may have achieved its purpose, which is the renewal of the Church and the people. Then people do speak of Renewal less and less but it does not mean that they do not exist.

In my parish, people from the Renewal form the bulk of people serving in the church in various forms and capacities.
 
Shakuhachi said:
In some ways it seems opposite of the Latin Mass which is highly structured, very formal and precise while with Charismatic anything can happen. That is not a criticism of either but and acknowledgement of the diversity available to us.
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In outward forms it may seem like the opposite. But both reaffirm most directly the overwelming majesty of God. Praise may be expressed somewhat differently, but notice that Praise is so important in these 2 things, and absent or neglected in many other Catholic activities.

Both assume the importance of the supernatural element of religion. Both would not hesitate to regard “Christ the King”.

Many other kinds of services nowadays seem to regard Christ as Facilitator, whose purpose is to draw people closer together, get us active in peace and justice, work for the Gospel of Equality. “Is everybody feeling mutually fulfilled here today? Are your needs getting met?”
 
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I’ve never been a big fan. My understanding is that the Charismatic Renewal has protestant roots. It started with professors Ralph Keifer and Patrick Bourgeois from Duquesne University in 1967. They were introduced to the book entitled The Cross and the Switchblade by David Ray Wilkerson, a Christian evangelist. It grew from there.
 
Mark121359 said:
I’ve never been a big fan. My understanding is that the Charismatic Renewal has protestant roots. It started with professors Ralph Keifer and Patrick Bourgeois from Duquesne University in 1967. They were introduced to the book entitled The Cross and the Switchblade by David Ray Wilkerson, a Christian evangelist. It grew from there.
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The same argument was used against Catholics restoring the Permanent Diaconate, Bible Studies, and other things. Many Catholic parishes have something called “Lessons and Carols” now, which was taken from Anglicans.

The reality is that many Protestants have good ideas and programs that belong to our common Christian roots. We were doing things like this long before the Reformation. Some aspects of what is now called Charismatic Renewal were apparently present in Catholic life, especially in religious orders, centuries ago. I lack the scholarly ability to evaluate these sources, just mention them.

I agree there has been some confusion in current ecumenical charismatic groups, and Catholics who had poor catechetical formation have switched over denominations. But this is a problem with catechetics, not charismatics. I found that Catholics with sound catechetical formation who have gone into Charismatic Renewal have often blossomed in their sacramental, parish, and things like prolife and religious liberty.
 
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I tend to agree with the last para.

The ‘Charismatic’ in the ‘Charismatic Renewal’ seems to get higher billing than the ‘Renewal’, which tend to rub non-Charismatic Catholics, both the laity and clergy, the wrong way.

In the early days of the Renewal, there was a dilemma as to what to call this new move of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church - New Pentecost or Charismatic Renewal. The latter was finally adopted as the former as too much associated with the current Protestant churches in the U.S.

In any case, being associated with the Pentecostals was inevitable as the phenomenon of the Holy Spirit was being experienced much earlier in the early twentIeth century and notably by the Protestant Pentecostal church.

We Catholics nevertheless had our own experience, which was made more tangible when St. Pope John XXIII prayed for a new Pentecost in 1962. The rest was history.

Millions experienced renewal and rejuvenation in their faith, which resulted in their new love and enthusiasm for the Church, the Catholic faith and personal renewal and transformation.

Nobody can deny that was not the work of the Holy Spirit. Be that may, there were others who despised this, citing the few minority who had left the Church.

The aspersion to Charismatic Renewal being originated from Protestantism rather than the grace of the Holy Spirit probably was more pronounced in the U.S. compared to Catholics in other countries especially where Protestants were less in numbers.

In any case, all the previous five Popes since John XXIII believed, supported and recognized the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.
 
I can understand skepticism but “scam” and “nonsense” are pretty strong.
 
Shakuhachi said:
I can understand skepticism but “scam” and “nonsense” are pretty strong.
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Not everyone can relate to certain approved private devotions or private revelations either. I would look at charismatic renewal, or X private devotion, and ask:
Does involvement in this lead this person to greater devotion to the Mass? to the spiritual and corporal works of mercy? To learning more about the Catholic Faith in general?

If the answer is yes, then for this person, involvement is a good thing. But someone else might come to that greater Christian conversion with some different support.

If involvement in charismatic renewal leads only to more charismatic renewal, or if Fatima activity leads only to more Fatima activity, well…
 
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Shakuhachi
I don’t know where you are from but the Renewal should be easy to find, and well worth it.
The Renewal is active, strong and will be around for as long as the Holy Spirit! ! !
People that talk against the renewal may not know the error of their ways . Maybe the renewal is not everybody’s cup of tea just like coffee vs tea
Catholic or Baptist. Some people are afraid of the Holy Spirit-sad. Pope Francis calls the renewal " a current of Grace". Check for yourself, alive and active and filled with the Spirit nationally and worldwide
Crux now global-church/2017/06/05/pentecost-pope-affirms-charismatic-renewal-current-grace
NSC- National Service Center. EWTN
ICCS International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Service. Sunday Visitor, sspx = Society of St Pius X.
CBN news 6/5/17 Pope affirms Charismatic Renewal.
All of the above from Crux-now to CBN news has articles quotes or is involved with CCR. As a new member I am unable to post links at this time.`**
“MaryRM said:
God bless and maybe we can pray for some that call it a sham
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People in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal will not say “involvement in the Charismatic Renewal” which denotes joining a movement or organisation.

They live the Charismatic spirituality, which is a life in the Holy Spirit. A life that is being led by the Holy Spirit. Thus they need an environment where they can come together to live this life, which is a basic Christian life that we are called to.

It result in one’s renewal in the Catholic faith, that’s why it’s often called a personal conversion experience, like from being a nominal non-practicing Catholic to an ardent believing and practicing Catholic, where love for the mass is renewed, for example.

Life in the Holy Spirit involves surrendering to the Holy Spirit and forgoing our human will and desire. In the process,the Holy Spirit’s action on us will make this possible and one will become more sensitive to the prompting of the Holy Spirit, which is what a Christian should be.

It does not mean that the Charismatics stop involving thrmselves in the Church/parishes but rather make them become more active in them as their new found renewal will bring them.
 
Yes, isnt that what we all really desire? The Holy Spirit alive and at work in us? But if we are not used to power and unpredictability it can seem pretty strange and perhaps threatening. The not my cup of tea part can be what seems to be people over indulging in emotions and whipping themselves up into a frenzy.
 
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Yes, exactly. A Catholic Charismatic has become more Catholic than they were before.

The renewal is the renewal in their own faith in the Catholic Church. By their renewal then the Church herself be renewed into a more vibrant and believing Church. This is often not understood especially by the detractors of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal as they errorneously think it is to be the same as the Protestant Charismatic.

There is no whipping oneself into an emotionally frenzy, which is probably a particularly Protestant phenomenon.

The action of the Holy Spirit can lead a person into radical repentant but not one where he is not in control of his behavior, which is not of the attribute of the Charismatic gift (Spirit).

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is coordinated by an official body of the Pontifical Right in the Vatican called the ICCRS (International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Service).

There are many Protestant Charismatic phenomena but they are not necessarliy acceptable to the Catholic Charismatic, which are two different things altogether.

Sometimes people like to use certain abuse by the minority to brand the entire spirituality. Abuses happen almost everywhere in the Church but it does not mean they describe the Church real practice and belief.
 
Remember Jesus’ triumphal entry to Jerusalem atop the donkey and the disciples singing and shouting loudly? Remember the Pharisees admonishing our Lord to quiet them down? “If they should hold their peace, these very stones should cry out” was our Lord’s response. Those stones would cry out by the power of the Holy Spirit, right?

OK, bear with me here. The Catholic Church, in modern, western times, has either lost, or neglected the presence and the charisms of the Holy Spirit. Let’s not lay blame, but just note the fact. It became a formal, institutional, regimented Church.

The Holy Spirit will not be contained or neglected, and so spoke out via the only other Christian body: the Protestant/Pentecostals.

In reviving the Charisms, the Catholic Church is only re-taking possession of that which was hers from the beginning.

The Charismatic movement is not protestant! It is rightly Catholic and time for it to return home. Is it everyone’s particular spirituality?

No. But, for those who benefit from it, we all benefit directly or indirectly.

Are there poor practitioners of it? Of course! Name a single aspect of the Church that does not suffer from this exact failing.
 
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Reuben_J said:
There is no whipping oneself into an emotionally frenzy, which is probably a particularly Protestant phenomenon.
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😀 Ouch Reuben_J, I did appreciate the smart wording on that one!!! (Sorry you Protestants out there, some of you folks are alright!!) 😇 HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
 
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