Charismatic Renewal

[TrueLight]

What I can tell you is that it is not for everyone. The more spiritual you are, the more you desire to live out your spirituality, the more drawn you are to the working of the Holy Spirit and the manifestations of the supernatural, the more you will appreciate what it does. Yet, what we experience is not for our own edification, but that of the Church.

I try to stay away from threads on the Charismatic Renewal because since I have Pentecostalism in my background, I have certain opinions. But to each is own.

I am confused by your statement above and in other posts in this thread. you almost imply that the more spiritual you are, the more likely you are to be a part of the Charismatic renewal. Maybe I am interpreting what you are saying wrongly.

Secondly, when you are confirmed, you are sealed to the Holy Spirit and you receive the power to be a soldier of Christ. Is there a secondary step called the ‘Baptism of the Holy Spirit’ that most of us are missing?

Thirdly, to say that it is fear that makes some unopened to the charismatic renewal is to imply that those who are not part of it, are wrong and also are missing the “fullness”.

Now maybe you didn’t mean to say all of these things, or maybe I am thinking of other posts you had, but that is my impression.

 

[Brooklyn]

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal started, I believe, in 1967 in Pittsburgh, PA when Ralph Martin and a couple of others consulted with Protestants to find out, basically, how it’s done. The Holy Spirit seems to have functioned very well in the Church prior to 1967. Since this was something taken from Protestantism, and since the Church seemed to have done well prior to 1967, why is it so imperative that we now all accept it in order to be more spiritual? None of the great saints of history were ever part of the Charismatic Renewal because it didn’t exist. Why do we need it now?

I understand that it is accepted by the Church, and I am certainly not going to dispute that. But I also believe one can lead a very spiritual, Spirit-filled life without the Charismatic Renewal.

I personally find anything that is based on emotion a little scary.

 

[arkwright]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA

Perhaps the above link will answer some queries .

 

[Brooklyn]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA

Perhaps the above link will answer some queries .

The video doesn’t mention that the Charismatic Renewal originated with Protestants.

 

[TrueLight]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA

Perhaps the above link will answer some queries .

The deeper relationship that they are discussing there is what you’re supposed to have. Evangelization, ministry, joy - that is what it means to be a Christian.

It doesn’t mean it has to include swaying from side to side or speaking in tongues.

Before the charismatic renewal, did Catholics not know about the joy of being a Christian? Or about the gifts of the Spirit, or about the Spirit’s role in one’s life? It could be I’m taking some things for granted.

 

[PatriceA]

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal started, I believe, in 1967 in Pittsburgh, PA when Ralph Martin and a couple of others consulted with Protestants to find out, basically, how it’s done. The Holy Spirit seems to have functioned very well in the Church prior to 1967. Since this was something taken from Protestantism, and since the Church seemed to have done well prior to 1967, why is it so imperative that we now all accept it in order to be more spiritual? None of the great saints of history were ever part of the Charismatic Renewal because it didn’t exist. Why do we need it now?

I understand that it is accepted by the Church, and I am certainly not going to dispute that. But I also believe one can lead a very spiritual, Spirit-filled life without the Charismatic Renewal.

I personally find anything that is based on emotion a little scary.

Actually it started at Duquesne University, don’t know if Ralph Martin was attending the University at that time or not.

 

[Brooklyn]

Actually it started at Duquesne University, don’t know if Ralph Martin was attending the University at that time or not.

From Wikipedia:

The Word of God was founded in 1967 by four men, Ralph Martin and Steve Clark (formerly involved in the Cursillo Movement office in Lansing, Michigan) and Jim Cavnar and Gerry Rauch who were involved in renewal work at the University of Notre Dame.[citation needed] They were young Catholics who came to Ann Arbor, Michigan after being asked to leave the ministry in Lansing they were involved in after they became charismatic.[citation needed] They were inspired by the recent encounter they had had with the Charismatic movement.[citation needed] It was sparked by the “Duquesne weekend” an event that is considered to be the Pentecost of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.[2]

The men began having Prayer meetings in their apartment around the University of Michigan’s main campus with four people.[citation needed] The meetings began to grow and soon there was a sizable group coming to every meeting. They moved to Saint Mary’s in Ann Arbor to accommodate the growing numbers. By 1973 the numbers had grown to 1000.[citation needed] They started to organize the gathering into groups of people to meet together. As meetings grew so did their venues. Soon there were many meetings throughout the week. Membership had grown to 3000 by 1976.

 

[Brooklyn]

Also in regard to Ralph Martin, from groups.yahoo.com/group/goancenter/message/1299:

In January 1967, Keifer and Stoney attended an **interfaith prayer meeting **where they requested prayer to receive the Holy Spirit. While prayer with the laying on of hands was made on the behalf of Keifer, he began to speak in tongues after making ‘an act of faith for the power of the Spirit.’ His enthusiastic account of his faith’s ‘livening’ eventually set off a chain of events that resulted in the birth of the ‘Catholic Charismatic Renewal.’ Prayer meetings were held in Pittsburgh, in South Bend, Indiana (at the home of Keifer’s friends Kevin and Dorothy Ranaghan) and at the University of Notre Dame, where Clark and Martin (who had also received this ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’) conducted with the Ranaghans a ‘retreat.’ This weekend retreat was unlike any other Catholic retreat, however: religious experiences were openly shared and open prayer was made for this ‘baptism of the Holy Spirit’ by the laying on of hands in prayer groups. Most of the individuals involved in these events left them profoundly changed by these ‘infillings of the Spirit’ - the change in their lives and their own testimonies began to spread word of the happenings

 

[po18guy]

I am confused by your statement above and in other posts in this thread. you almost imply that the more spiritual you are, the more likely you are to be a part of the Charismatic renewal. Maybe I am interpreting what you are saying wrongly.

Rather, the more likely you are to benefit from a charismatic prayer experience - assuming that your charism has not yet been realized (or released). No one ever has to join any movement. The renewal is designed to renew our life in the Holy Spirit.

Secondly, when you are confirmed, you are sealed to the Holy Spirit and you receive the power to be a soldier of Christ. Is there a secondary step called the ‘Baptism of the Holy Spirit’ that most of us are missing?

No. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is simply a prayer experience. It is one way of making yourself docile to the Holy Spirit, thus allowing and inviting Him to act in your life. It is not a sacrament. There is nothing else to call it, so it is termed a ‘baptism.’

Thirdly, to say that it is fear that makes some unopened to the charismatic renewal is to imply that those who are not part of it, are wrong and also are missing the “fullness”

Not at all! My comments relate to the fear that rules our lives in general. Docility to the Holy Spirit tends to remove fear of all types, such as the fear of death.

Now maybe you didn’t mean to say all of these things, or maybe I am thinking of other posts you had, but that is my impression.

The CCR is simply a specific mechanism in which we may come to know and release the charism that we have been given. For some, this has occurred spontaneously. For the rest of us, we seek it via other means.

 

[PatriceA]

From Wikipedia:

The Word of God was founded in 1967 by four men, Ralph Martin and Steve Clark (formerly involved in the Cursillo Movement office in Lansing, Michigan) and Jim Cavnar and Gerry Rauch who were involved in renewal work at the University of Notre Dame.[citation needed] They were young Catholics who came to Ann Arbor, Michigan after being asked to leave the ministry in Lansing they were involved in after they became charismatic.[citation needed] They were inspired by the recent encounter they had had with the Charismatic movement.[citation needed] It was sparked by the “Duquesne weekend” an event that is considered to be the Pentecost of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.[2]

The men began having Prayer meetings in their apartment around the University of Michigan’s main campus with four people.[citation needed] The meetings began to grow and soon there was a sizable group coming to every meeting. They moved to Saint Mary’s in Ann Arbor to accommodate the growing numbers. By 1973 the numbers had grown to 1000.[citation needed] They started to organize the gathering into groups of people to meet together. As meetings grew so did their venues. Soon there were many meetings throughout the week. Membership had grown to 3000 by 1976.

Not sure what wikipedia page you got this from, but this is the one that I got when I googled the movement:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal

 

[po18guy]

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal started, I believe, in 1967 in Pittsburgh, PA when Ralph Martin and a couple of others consulted with Protestants to find out, basically, how it’s done. The Holy Spirit seems to have functioned very well in the Church prior to 1967. Since this was something taken from Protestantism, and since the Church seemed to have done well prior to 1967, why is it so imperative that we now all accept it in order to be more spiritual? None of the great saints of history were ever part of the Charismatic Renewal because it didn’t exist. Why do we need it now?

I understand that it is accepted by the Church, and I am certainly not going to dispute that. But I also believe one can lead a very spiritual, Spirit-filled life without the Charismatic Renewal.

I personally find anything that is based on emotion a little scary.

What, exactly, do you fear in all of this?

 

[grasscutter]

What, exactly, do you fear in all of this?

I think it comes down to personality. While I support the charismatic renewal as a valid and welcome contribution, I am (by the nature of my personality) totally not into it. Just like some people (by the nature of their personalities) have trouble with silent meditation before the Real Presence. Luckily, our beautiful, wonderful Church has something for everyone. Just consider the diversity of all the religious orders…

 

[po18guy]

As is my experience in these threads:

1. Almost all who are flatly opposed to the charismatic renewal have no actual experience with the movement. What does that say?
2. The same names, dates and places relating to the origins of the charismatic renewal are repeated as if that, by itself, actually means something.
3. Almost all opponents seem to claim that the manifestations of the charisms is a protestant invention - as if protestants are wrong about everything - and are ignoring obvious references to the charisms in scripture and the catechism.
4. All will acknowledge that the movement has been examined, tested and approved by the Church, then go on to say why it should not be.
5. Nearly all, sooner or later, manage to work the term “emotion” into their statements.
6. Opponents will often use terms such as “afraid” “frightening” or “worried” to describe how they feel about the movement, then deny that fear is driving their opposition.
7. Many who oppose the Church-endorsed movement also claim to be obedient Catholics.

If only as much energy would be devoted to recognizing and using their charisms…

 

[grasscutter]

As is my experience in these threads:

1. Almost all who are flatly opposed to the charismatic renewal have no actual experience with the movement. What does that say?
2. The same names, dates and places relating to the origins of the charismatic renewal are repeated as if that, by itself, actually means something.
3. Almost all opponents seem to claim that the manifestations of the charisms is a protestant invention - as if protestants are wrong about everything - and are ignoring obvious references to the charisms in scripture and the catechism.
4. All will acknowledge that the movement has been examined, tested and approved by the Church, then go on to say why it should not be.
5. Nearly all, sooner or later, manage to work the term “emotion” into their statements.
6. Opponents will often use terms such as “afraid” “frightening” or “worried” to describe how they feel about the movement, then deny that fear is driving their opposition.
7. Many who oppose the Church-endorsed movement also claim to be obedient Catholics.

If only as much energy would be devoted to recognizing and using their charisms…

You’ve made excellent points. As to charisms, some of them are not naturally geared towards outward displays and they are all equally valid. We all, thankfully, have a gift from the Holy Spirit. Like I posted earlier, I’m going to spend some time discerning mine.

 

[po18guy]

You’ve made excellent points. As to charisms, some of them are not naturally geared towards outward displays and they are all equally valid. We all, thankfully, have a gift from the Holy Spirit. Like I posted earlier, I’m going to spend some time discerning mine.

Precisely the point. The Charismatic Renewal, which seeks only to renew that which always existed (but was left perhaps unused), is simply one way to help discover what your charism is. There are certainly other methods. But, as we see in this thread, something is dead-set against what the Church has approved. This is not a good sign. I truly wonder why some are so vehemently opposed to the renewal. Fear is one obvious answer, yet the Holy Spirit erases fear - if we but submit to Him. Whether visible or invisible, we are called to know what our charism is.

 

[grasscutter]

Precisely the point. The Charismatic Renewal, which seeks only to renew that which always existed (but was left perhaps unused), is simply one way to help discover what your charism is. There are certainly other methods. But, as we see in this thread, something is dead-set against what the Church has approved. This is not a good sign. I truly wonder why some are so vehemently opposed to the renewal. Fear is one obvious answer, yet the Holy Spirit erases fear - if we but submit to Him. Whether visible or invisible, we are called to know what our charism is.

I get what you’re saying. I think that maybe some people confuse charismatic renewal to mean behaving like evangelical protestants when it merely means renewal (and appreciation) of charisms. Whatever those may be for a particular person…

 

[po18guy]

I get what you’re saying. I think that maybe some people confuse charismatic renewal to mean behaving like evangelical protestants when it merely means renewal (and appreciation) of charisms. Whatever those may be for a particular person…

While this is a different situation from that faced by the Jewish leaders in opposition to the early Church, let there be no doubt about the goodness of the charismatic renewal for those who desire to participate in it. Those who oppose it by default should ponder the meaning of Acts 5:29-39 in which Gamaliel warns that the Sanhedrin, by opposing the Apostles, might end up opposing God Himself. That is a genuine risk here, since we do not know all of the ways in which the Holy Spirit works. What we do know, upon the rock of Church authority, is that He does work in each of us through the charisms and also through the charismatic renewal.

 

[LegoGE1947]

If you are baptized and confirmed, you have one. I think we had better break our catechisms out here. See sections 688, 799-801, 951, 1508 and 2003.

I was baptized as an Evangelical at age 26 and came into the Catholic Church 10 years ago at age 55.

 

[curlycool89]

I think it comes down to personality. While I support the charismatic renewal as a valid and welcome contribution, I am (by the nature of my personality) totally not into it. Just like some people (by the nature of their personalities) have trouble with silent meditation before the Real Presence. Luckily, our beautiful, wonderful Church has something for everyone. Just consider the diversity of all the religious orders…

Very true. Not everyone’s into it, and there’s no requirement.

If I can give a bit a a personal experience here, I was a bit freaked out by charismatic types at first. I was a very shy, introverted person. I was always afraid of what other people would think of what I was doing; it’s just the type of person I was. Maybe it was anxiety or something.

I decided I wanted to get over that, and it’s taken the past few years, and I’ve become a much more outgoing person. I feel much more comfortable talking with people about anything, and I even feel more confident about trying to find who I am. Those same charismatics who freaked me out really helped me to be more confident about myself. When I saw them singing with their hands up in the air I was a little freaked out, but I was also a little jealous because they were confident enough to express themselves like that and I was not. Now I’ve gotten over it, but I had to grow and I had to be not afraid.

It is the Holy Spirit that helps you to be not afraid. Trust in Him and ask Him to help you get over your fears if that’s what the problem is.

As is my experience in these threads:

1. Almost all who are flatly opposed to the charismatic renewal have no actual experience with the movement. What does that say?

That’s actually quite a funny statement, because there are stories of people who are suspicious of the charismatic movement who investigate it and end up involving themselves.

Fr. Bob Bedard, who founded the Companions of the Cross, was one such priest. From what I’ve heard (I haven’t verified this, but I’ve heard this a few times), he was asked by his bishop to investigate the fledgling new charismatic movement, and he was initially suspicious of it. Fr. Allan MacDonald gave a similar tale (in a link I posted in an earlier post).

While this is a different situation from that faced by the Jewish leaders in opposition to the early Church, let there be no doubt about the goodness of the charismatic renewal for those who desire to participate in it. Those who oppose it by default should ponder the meaning of Acts 5:29-39 in which Gamaliel warns that the Sanhedrin, by opposing the Apostles, might end up opposing God Himself. That is a genuine risk here, since we do not know all of the ways in which the Holy Spirit works. What we do know, upon the rock of Church authority, is that He does work in each of us through the charisms and also through the charismatic renewal.

And of course, people who are truly Catholic charismatics will always check with their parish priest and local Bishop before doing any kind of public action. Obedience is not optional.

 

[TrueLight]

Rather, the more likely you are to benefit from a charismatic prayer experience - assuming that your charism has not yet been realized (or released). No one ever has to join any movement. The renewal is designed to renew our life in the Holy Spirit.
No. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is simply a prayer experience. It is one way of making yourself docile to the Holy Spirit, thus allowing and inviting Him to act in your life. It is not a sacrament. There is nothing else to call it, so it is termed a ‘baptism.’
Not at all! My comments relate to the fear that rules our lives in general. Docility to the Holy Spirit tends to remove fear of all types, such as the fear of death.
The CCR is simply a specific mechanism in which we may come to know and release the charism that we have been given. For some, this has occurred spontaneously. For the rest of us, we seek it via other means.

Thanks for clarifying.