Charity, Homosexuality, Scripture, Tradition

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CopticChristian said:
Swizzle,

I see that Tony and the homosexual agenda have evaporated.🙂
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Hey coptic,

I have be recovering from surgery the past week. I was so bored out of my mind until somehow I came across this website. Unfortunately it is back to work with me. It has been such fun toying with you. You have had me laughing my *** off. Thank you so much for the entertainment. You crack me up. It has been so much fun having you run from here and there. I would just cut and paste stuff off the internet and I can just imagine you taking all that time reading a bunch of ****. I feel kind of bad jerking you around, but I couldn’t resist. You just made it too easy. I wish I could take a couple of more days off to play around with you, but its back to the real world.

Goodbye Quotes Page: 1 2

A man never knows how to say goodbye; a woman never knows when to say it.
Helen Rowland

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/h/helenrowla108311.html

And having suffered for part of the war when I was a child. I was too young to really understand what was going on but one of my favorite pieces of animation now is that Goodbye Blue Sky in The Wall because that deals directly with that period in time.
Gerald Scarfe

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/geraldscar326296.html

And the relationships that happen become so intense, deep, involved and complex and really hard to say goodbye to. The hardest part of the show is saying goodbye when it’s all done. It really breaks you.
Genevieve Gorder

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/genevieveg373855.html

Could we see when and where we are to meet again, we would be more tender when we bid our friends goodbye.
Ouida

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/ouida172973.html

I believe that the freedom of speech should be protected, but so should a family’s right to privacy as they grieve their loss. There is a time and a place for vigorous debate on the War on Terror, but during a family’s last goodbye is not it.
Dave Reichert

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/davereiche340925.html

I feel like giving myself a pat on the back. We can create history tonight. We can bid goodbye to 10 years of (Liberal-Conservative) government which has ground to a halt, and get a new government and a new majority in Denmark.
 
tonyinatlga12 said:
Hey coptic,

I have be recovering from surgery the past week. I was so bored out of my mind until somehow I came across this website. Unfortunately it is back to work with me. It has been such fun toying with you. You have had me laughing my *** off. Thank you so much for the entertainment. You crack me up. It has been so much fun having you run from here and there. I would just cut and paste stuff off the internet and I can just imagine you taking all that time reading a bunch of ****. I feel kind of bad jerking you around, but I couldn’t resist. You just made it too easy. I wish I could take a couple of more days off to play around with you, but its back to the real world.

Goodbye Quotes Page: 1 2

A man never knows how to say goodbye; a woman never knows when to say it.
Helen Rowland

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/h/helenrowla108311.html

And having suffered for part of the war when I was a child. I was too young to really understand what was going on but one of my favorite pieces of animation now is that Goodbye Blue Sky in The Wall because that deals directly with that period in time.
Gerald Scarfe

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/geraldscar326296.html

And the relationships that happen become so intense, deep, involved and complex and really hard to say goodbye to. The hardest part of the show is saying goodbye when it’s all done. It really breaks you.
Genevieve Gorder

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/genevieveg373855.html

Could we see when and where we are to meet again, we would be more tender when we bid our friends goodbye.
Ouida

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/ouida172973.html

I believe that the freedom of speech should be protected, but so should a family’s right to privacy as they grieve their loss. There is a time and a place for vigorous debate on the War on Terror, but during a family’s last goodbye is not it.
Dave Reichert

brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/davereiche340925.html

I feel like giving myself a pat on the back. We can create history tonight. We can bid goodbye to 10 years of (Liberal-Conservative) government which has ground to a halt, and get a new government and a new majority in Denmark.
Click to expand...
👋
 
CMatt25 said:
What I would agree to is that I neither accept what Elizabeth502 presented nor hers or Catholic interpretation or their emphasis on the matter
Click to expand...
And so, according to this and other posts, there is good reason to believe you think it’s okay that all the Catholic adoption agency workers in Britain were read the riot act - and lost their jobs for refusing to recommend children for adoption to homosexual and or lesbian, um, couples when -]equality/-] legislation was passed ?.

It would logically follow that you approve of the state indoctrinating children as young as 5 years old in schools with the homosexual agenda - without either their parents’ consent or sometimes even without their parents’ knowledge.
CMatt25 said:
But I assume you believe in one God and as a Catholic Christian in one Lord Jesus Christ, right? As a fellow brother in Christ, so do do I. So on that we are on the same page. But if disagreeing on something like homosexuality along our lifelong faith journeys with Him, means to you we can not worship together or be united in our one Lord, then so be it.
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If you don’t want to be a Catholic, that’s your prerogative. The Catholic church doesn’t shoot homosexuals and bury them in a big pit. Let’s be clear. Her primary desire is that every soul would make it to Heaven . Each one of us is God’s child - no question. However genuine charity, in its Christian sense , means telling the entire truth and teaching the entire truth , not restricting it to only teaching the convenient truth. If you find some of that truth just a little too painful to bear, then you aren’t really that different from the rest of us.

But we give our assent of faith to that truth. And we are blessed to have the sacrament of Reconciliation/Confession - a sacrament of healing which is a tremendous aid in sharpening both our *consequent conscience *and our *antecedent conscience *; enabling us in every moral act, to think for ourselves on a spiritual level.

You also need to be careful whom you presume to be speaking for when you talk about “disagreeing on homosexuality” . There are Catholics with both SSA and with homosexual tendencies who want to and do struggle against it - with the help of the sacraments. They do “worship together with us and are united in our one Lord” - perhaps even more deeply than you - a non-Catholic could imagine, because they share in Christ’s Passion . Even (baptised in CC) active homosexuals aren’t pushed away in the Catholic Church- they are advised not to receive Holy Communion - the same as those actively practicing contraception , the same as those unmarried couples who are “living together” , the same as those who publicly support abortion.

There are also openly gay people (many - according to several testimonies I’ve read) who do not agree with same sex -]marriage/-] . So let’s be fair and stop painting a larger than life picture by confirming you don’t speak for them either. More than a few disagree and some openly gay people think same sex -]marriage/-] is frankly, an extremely dumb idea .
CMatt25 said:
Since I know He said He would turn no one away who comes to Him, I’ll continue to find Him somewhere. Peace be with you
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The foot of the Cross is one place you’ll always find Him. He waits for each of us there. If you were Catholic (even not) I might also suggest an adoration chapel.

We could all consider for a moment, the tender expression of God the Father’s love which Jesus’ conveys to us in that passage of Luke (15: 11-32) . The parable of the Prodigal Son is the image of our Heavenly Father Jesus wants us to hold on to . The Father who was watching, anxiously anticipating his son’s return. And then -
. . . while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
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Yet to have union with God on such an intimate level, we first have to come clean of (readily admit) all our sins. The prodigal son *turned away from his dissolute living *before returning , and even when he did return, the sense of conviction of his personal sins is striking . . . quite possibly motivated by God’s own grace, even after the Father embraces him, he claims resolutely :
‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
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. . . not (something along the lines of) : " I’m not convinced I did anything wrong . . . "
 
CopticChristian said:
Ed,

I am not familiar with what you call historical marketing by question since 1973. What did I miss?
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The APA’s misguided decision in 1973 was the ‘proof’ required for everything that came after, i.e. the APA no longer considers it a disorder, so we can go on to same-sex marriage later on. There is a term called “astro-turf.” Like the fake grass, some people are actually paid money to go to various internet sites to add their support while appearing to be an average Joe.

You can look inside this book:

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0465030483

Peace,
Ed
 
NeedImprovement said:
And so, according to this and other posts, there is good reason to believe you think it’s okay that all the Catholic adoption agency workers in Britain were read the riot act - and lost their jobs for refusing to recommend children for adoption to homosexual and or lesbian, um, couples when -]equality/-] legislation was passed ?.

It would logically follow that you approve of the state indoctrinating children as young as 5 years old in schools with the homosexual agenda - without either their parents’ consent or sometimes even without their parents’ knowledge.

If you don’t want to be a Catholic, that’s your prerogative. The Catholic church doesn’t shoot homosexuals and bury them in a big pit. Let’s be clear. Her primary desire is that every soul would make it to Heaven . Each one of us is God’s child - no question. However genuine charity, in its Christian sense , means telling the entire truth and teaching the entire truth , not restricting it to only teaching the convenient truth. If you find some of that truth just a little too painful to bear, then you aren’t really that different from the rest of us.

But we give our assent of faith to that truth. And we are blessed to have the sacrament of Reconciliation/Confession - a sacrament of healing which is a tremendous aid in sharpening both our *consequent conscience *and our *antecedent conscience *; enabling us in every moral act, to think for ourselves on a spiritual level.

You also need to be careful whom you presume to be speaking for when you talk about “disagreeing on homosexuality” . There are Catholics with both SSA and with homosexual tendencies who want to and do struggle against it - with the help of the sacraments. They do “worship together with us and are united in our one Lord” - perhaps even more deeply than you - a non-Catholic could imagine, because they share in Christ’s Passion . Even (baptised in CC) active homosexuals aren’t pushed away in the Catholic Church- they are advised not to receive Holy Communion - the same as those actively practicing contraception , the same as those unmarried couples who are “living together” , the same as those who publicly support abortion.

There are also openly gay people (many - according to several testimonies I’ve read) who do not agree with same sex -]marriage/-] . So let’s be fair and stop painting a larger than life picture by confirming you don’t speak for them either. More than a few disagree and some openly gay people think same sex -]marriage/-] is frankly, an extremely dumb idea .

The foot of the Cross is one place you’ll always find Him. He waits for each of us there. If you were Catholic (even not) I might also suggest an adoration chapel.

We could all consider for a moment, the tender expression of God the Father’s love which Jesus’ conveys to us in that passage of Luke (15: 11-32) . The parable of the Prodigal Son is the image of our Heavenly Father Jesus wants us to hold on to . The Father who was watching, anxiously anticipating his son’s return. And then -

Yet to have union with God on such an intimate level, we first have to come clean of (readily admit) all our sins. The prodigal son *turned away from his dissolute living *before returning , and even when he did return, the sense of conviction of his personal sins is striking . . . quite possibly motivated by God’s own grace, even after the Father embraces him, he claims resolutely :

. . . not (something along the lines of) : " I’m not convinced I did anything wrong . . . "
Click to expand...
Hi NeedImprovement, thanks for your assessment of me and I understand what you believe the truth to be. God bless you and peace be with you always.
 
CMatt25 said:
What I would agree to is that I neither accept what Elizabeth502 presented nor hers or Catholic interpretation or their emphasis on the matter. I’ve yet to be convinced to. But I assume you believe in one God and as a Catholic Christian in one Lord Jesus Christ, right? As a fellow brother in Christ, so do do I. So on that we are on the same page. But if disagreeing on something like homosexuality along our lifelong faith journeys with Him, means to you we can not worship together or be united in our one Lord, then so be it. Since I know He said He would turn no one away who comes to Him, I’ll continue to find Him somewhere. Peace be with you.
Click to expand...
Matt,

I don’t think that a year ago I would have given this much notice. Lately I see dialogue about homosexuality is common. Fr Hardon reviews this on his site. I just had a thought about this and as I post wonder what others think of this site the real presence? He reviews the Cathechism and adds this last statement…

therealpresence.org/archives/Chastity/Chastity_014.htm

**72. What is the most recent and authoritative defense of homosexuality by professed Catholic members of the hierarchy?

It was part of a conference given in Pittsburgh in the winter of 1997. Again, the quotation is lengthy, but is worth giving in full.**
“The most important thing that we can do in our pastoral care is to create a church community where gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered people can be truly open about who they are…. I think it is very, very important that they experience a warmth and oneness within the Church to allow them to share their gifts with our Church…. I encourage this because I hope that within our Church, every gay person, every lesbian person, every bisexual or transgendered person will come out, because that is how our Church is going to truly change: when everyone who from this community of homosexual people is courageous enough, because it does take courage to come out….
“I would say this especially to bishops and priests within our Church. I cannot tell you the number of letters I have received in the last few years from priests who say they are gay, but are afraid to come out. What a loss this is to our Church! Because if they were willing to stand up on a Sunday morning in front of their community and to say who they really are, our Church could much more fully and quickly appreciate the gifts that homosexuals can bring to the whole community of our Church and to our society as well….
“As more and more people come out, more families are changed, more churches are changed, more parishes are changed, and our whole Church is changed. And so I appeal here publicly to all of us within the Church to create a community in which this can happen. But then, for those who are gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgendered, please come forward. Say who you are, be proud of who you are, and share all of your gifts with the Church” (Pastoral Care of Lesbian and Gay People, New Ways Ministry, Fourth National Symposium).
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What I wonder is if there was a priest battling homosexuality, yet celibate, could speak of this difficulty how much an impact that would make or if it would be proper to do so?
 
CopticChristian said:
Matt,

I don’t think that a year ago I would have given this much notice. Lately I see dialogue about homosexuality is common. Fr Hardon reviews this on his site. I just had a thought about this and as I post wonder what others think of this site the real presence? He reviews the Cathechism and adds this last statement…

therealpresence.org/archives/Chastity/Chastity_014.htm

**72. What is the most recent and authoritative defense of homosexuality by professed Catholic members of the hierarchy?

It was part of a conference given in Pittsburgh in the winter of 1997. Again, the quotation is lengthy, but is worth giving in full.**

What I wonder is if there was a priest battling homosexuality, yet celibate, could speak of this difficulty how much an impact that would make or if it would be proper to do so?
Click to expand...
Coptic, yes I agree it is a prevailing issue under discussion that’s for sure. Here and outside CAF. I myself would really much rather on a Christian forum be discussing other matters that Christ spent more time crusading on. But I don’t get to set the agenda nor to start every thread. 🙂 I can hear you now. You might be thanking God for that. 😛 Anyway to answer your question with my thoughts. In your scenario, being celibate would not be a sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church, right? In any case my own view is yes it would be not only proper but good for the Catholic faithful in the pews to hear their priests discussing their true identities and any difficulty or struggle for instance being a closeted homosexual has caused them. And if nothing else just actually knowing a real, out of the closet homosexual and one who is their spiritual guide at that, might have some positive impact. At least it couldn’t hurt IMO.
 
CMatt25 said:
Hi NeedImprovement, thanks for your assessment of me and I understand what you believe the truth to be. God bless you and peace be with you always.
Click to expand...
Hi CMatt25 .
The scope of the (if you like to call it that) “assessment” , had a considerably broader expanse; it wasn’t focused on you, and provided what I believe to be better objectivity pertaining to how a significant number of those openly professing to be “gay” do not approve of same sex -]marriage/-].

Whether inadvertent or not, the comment
. . . if disagreeing on something like homosexuality along our lifelong faith journeys with Him, means to you we can not worship together or be united in our one Lord,
Click to expand...
as a generality in the abstract, has a tendency to express more than one false verisimilitude . For one thing, it offers a distorted picture of how Catholics deal both collectively and personally with SSA, homosexual tendencies, active homosexuality and same sex -]marriage/-]. As I pointed out, that comment does a disservice to the Catholics who struggle against SSA and homosexual tendencies , with the help of the sacraments. Indeed we do worship together with them and are united with them in our Lord ; we also pray and suffer with them because they are united to the Passion of Christ .

Added to that was simply a little exegesis on the parable of the Prodigal Son.

So . . . just trying to keep it real.

Personally, I could see how you would believe/not believe what you do, even if I can’t agree with it .

CMatt25 , please don’t feel obliged to comment on this next part , but just to clarify for you: My comments
40.png
NeedImprovement:
And so, according to this and other posts, there is good reason to believe you think it’s okay that all the Catholic adoption agency workers in Britain were read the riot act - and lost their jobs for refusing to recommend children for adoption to homosexual and or lesbian, um, couples when equality legislation was passed ?.

It would logically follow that you approve of the state indoctrinating children as young as 5 years old in schools with the homosexual agenda - without either their parents’ consent or sometimes even without their parents’ knowledge.
Click to expand...
. . . are not actually an assessment of *you *. They are a statement of what is to be concluded - a logical inference , because they are extensions of what happens when your beliefs as you express them here, become state sponsored legislation.

God bless you too CMatt25 (Let’s do our best to try and meet up in Heaven one day).

🙂
 
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