chart of anti-Catholic religions?

[po18guy]

Now why would we be not capable of interpreting scripture? Are we not of the Holy Spirit?

Well, private interpretation leads to disunity-witness the thousands of Protestant denominations, each if which is convinced that they are correct. If Christ is the Word made flesh, and is all truth, why are there so many conflicting opinions about what he said and meant? Why did Christ appoint one head of the church before He ascended?

Look at it this way: At work you likely have a mission statement. Now, do you have a supervisor who directs the work, or does everyone just read the mission statement by themselves then go and do whatever they think is right? Which method is more likely to ensure that the organization remains functional and goal-oriented? That’s why Christ left a shepherd in charge of the sheep. That is why Christ’s church appointed another shepherd when Peter died, and has ever since.

On this earth, we live in the kingdom of the evil one (Read Job 1:6-7). He sends many spirits to lead us to destruction. Such spirits lead us away from the fullness of truth and toward disintegration, and destruction. This results precisely in what we see with the thousands of denominations that all believe they know God’s intent. They privately interpreted scripture.

At the time of Christ, there was no private interpretation, since the vast majority of people were illiterate. Also, each scripture had to be meticulously hand copied, since it would be 1,400+ years before there was a method of mass production of printed matter in the Christian world (the printing press).

Witness also that Luther came about not long after the printing press. He privately interpreted scripture, and the presses allowed mass distribution of this erroneous material. Over time, the one Protestant church that Luther founded has shattered into an estimated 33,000+/- denominations. This is neither what Christ, nor even Luther wanted.

This is the result of private interpretation.

 

[Steadfast]

Witness also that Luther came about not long after the printing press. He privately interpreted scripture, and the presses allowed mass distribution of this erroneous material. Over time, the one Protestant church that Luther founded has shattered into an estimated 33,000+/- denominations. This is neither what Christ, nor even Luther wanted.

This is the result of private interpretation.

Never mind, this is not worth responding to.

 

[po18guy]

Never mind, this is not worth responding to.

I admit that it’s not particularly pleasant to read, but how can you seriously argue it, given the results shown by the passage of time?

 

[Steadfast]

I admit that it’s not particularly pleasant to read, but how can you seriously argue it, given the results shown by the passage of time?

It’s a typical hatchet job and a caricature, a reduction of man and events to a minimum of truth for polemical purposes.

If you do this and expect no argument, you shouldn’t blink or make a sound when a Protestant says Pius XII paved the way for Hitler.

 

[Steadfast]

But speaking to the larger issue.

The vast majority of Protestants do not privately interpret Scripture.

 

[po18guy]

But speaking to the larger issue.

The vast majority of Protestants do not privately interpret Scripture.

But, it remains the cause of their disunity.

 

[po18guy]

It’s a typical hatchet job and a caricature, a reduction of man and events to a minimum of truth for polemical purposes.

If you do this and expect no argument, you shouldn’t blink or make a sound when a Protestant says Pius XII paved the way for Hitler.

Look at these events on a time line beginning with creation. Are they accidents? Coincidence?

 

[rpp]

Witness also that Luther came about not long after the printing press. He privately interpreted scripture, and the presses allowed mass distribution of this erroneous material. Over time, the one Protestant church that Luther founded has shattered into an estimated 33,000+/- denominations. This is neither what Christ, nor even Luther wanted.

This is the result of private interpretation.

It’s a typical hatchet job and a caricature, a reduction of man and events to a minimum of truth for polemical purposes.

If you do this and expect no argument, you shouldn’t blink or make a sound when a Protestant says Pius XII paved the way for Hitler.

I am sorry, Steadfast, I am afraid I do not see how this is a “hatchet job”. It is, admittedly, the distillation of the fruit of an entire lifetime and centuries of subsequent history into only 4 sentences.

It also concluded by saying that even Luther did not want the disunity that we see today, which clearly shows the author, while disagreeing with what Luther taught, is not seeking to vilify him.

As for your assertions regarding Pope Pius XII, please do not divert the issue by introduction spurious subjects that have already been discredited.

You may be correct in your other assertions that most Protestant do not, themselves privately, ministers and preachers regularly do this. Then they teach this to their congregations.

So I would say po18guy is correct in his assertion that private interpretation is the primary catalyst (though certainly not sole) that causes the amazing diversity and disunity we see among non-Catholic Christians and Christian offshoots like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons.

I would also agree that this disunity is an inherently bad thing.

 

[Steadfast]

My point is that if you’re going to “distill history” into a few sentences, you need to be very very careful.

The point about Pius XII is every bit as accurate as his about Luther. Just exactly this case can be made, or rather, history can be “distilled” into a few sentences which would lead one to the conclusion.

Behold:

In 1933 Pius signed the Reichskonkordat.

The Concordat forbade clergy involvement or membership in political parties.

This killed the Catholic Centre Party and removed NSDAP’s only serious conservative rival in the Reichstag.

See how easy that is? These are all historical facts.

But is this really true?

Maybe, maybe not. It’s a polemical bomshell when you put it that way but it really doesn’t do justice to the whole situation and neither did po18guy’s remark about Luther, the printing press and “private interpretation”.

 

[blacktiger057]

For example, I believe the papacy to be evil.

Although I don’t really agree with the papacy, the pope is not evil. He has done bad things, but who hasn’t? The pope is just a leader of a religion, nothing more, except to the people of the religion he leads. Just because I don’t agree with it does not make it evil. Things are simply not good or bad.

 

[blacktiger057]

You know, the ones who know the pope is the big dog and are jealous enough to spread lies.

Umm…actually, you BELIEVE that the pope is infallible. It’s a matter of belief, not fact. If I knew that the pope really was as holy as some claim him to be, then my beliefs would change. If you think that people disagree with the pope because they are jealous of him, you need to wake up!

 

[blacktiger057]

Here’s a good chart:

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/denominations.htm

Okay…I really hate things that say all religions are wrong and false except for this one…they all have bits of truth in them. All religions do. Plus, it is all a matter of BELIEF!

 

[Petergee]

None of which would have any bearing at all on what we’re talking about which is, basically, the ability of a person to evaluate truth claims he has encountered only peripherally.

I am certain that B16 has had protestant claims about the nature of the papacy put to him most forcefully and directly many times.

 

[Petergee]

Sure, no problem

angelfire.com/in3/thechurch/Baptism2.html

If you say that I am mis-quoting, give some evidence, I quoted from angelfire very speciefic volume and page, so if what I copied was wrong then correct me with the correct quote from the said book,volume, and page.

OK, we’re starting to get somewhere. But the page is published by “we” unidentified (angelfire is merely a generic host which sells its web services to all comers), and gives no home link, in fact no links at all, so I have no idea who published it though I can make a good guess. Why do you keep hiding? If you are so convinced that your organisation has the truth, why not proudly proclaim what it is?

Athough the Bible teaches what I said

In your opinion. Please stop evading my question of why we should take your authority as to what the Bible means, and yours alone above the opinion of everyone else who has ever read the Bible.

 

[Petergee]

My point is that if you’re going to “distill history” into a few sentences, you need to be very very careful.

The point about Pius XII is every bit as accurate as his about Luther.

No it’s quite false. The Concordat did not “pave the way for Hitler”. Hitler was already in power. The Church signed the Concordat basically to protect itself and the religious freedoms of the German people from the threat which Hitler posed. Hitler then proceeded to ignore it. The Centre Party got on just fine without Catholic priests becoming politicians. (How weird that you object to this when you sneer at “state churches”.) It had many fine Catholic lay members and continued just as before, until the Nazis forcibly closed it down just like they did to all the other political parties. Is this piffle is the best argument you’ve got?

 

[Petergee]

Okay…I really hate things that say all religions are wrong and false except for this one…they all have bits of truth in them. All religions do. Plus, it is all a matter of BELIEF!

Restrain your hatred. The chart says nothing to deny that all religions have bits of truth in them. But its purpose, which it does very well, is to list all the major heretical groups and the points on which they were wrong. In many cases it’s only one or two points of doctrine. By implication, all the rest of the doctrines they teach/taught are true.

Admittedly though it doesn’t really answer the OP’s request for a chart of which groups are specifically anti-Catholic, and which lies they tell about history and about what Catholics believe, rather than merely a chart of groups which have heretical beliefs.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I knew on page one that this thread was not going to answer my question and it was being highjacked. Now you guys are so far off the original subject I don’t know how the mods have kept it going! I check back every few pages thinking maybe someone will remember the question and give me some kind of answer…


what I was looking for was some kind of chart or webpage or something that gave a short synopsis of MODERN Protestant sects who are anti-Catholic. Some are more hateful than others and I was just wondering if anyone ever wrote them down. (I know from another thread that Hagee hates Catholics–but what is his affiliation?) I have heard Pat Robertson say good and bad things about Catholics–what is his religious affiliation?

 

[Steadfast]

In '33 Hitler was the Chancellor. He was not the President, that was Bismarck. It is not true to say that he was already “in power” in the sense that he had no obstacles to complete State take over.

Germany was a republic with a parliament called the Reichstag. After WWI several parties were competing for control of the Reichstag, among them Communists, Social Democrats, Christian Democrats, etc. The National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP: the Nazi’s) and the Catholic Center Party (Katholisches Zentrumspartei: KZP) were the two largest conservative groups.

Without the removal of the latter, NSDAP would not have been a majority in the Reichstag. The Reichskonkordat effectively dissolved the KZP, removing them as an obstacle.

NSDAP never enjoyed greater than 37% of the popular vote. In a multi-party system often the only way to consolidate, if coalition is impossible (and the KZP would not form a coalition with NSDAP) is to effect the removal of ones opponents.

The Concordat destroyed an important conservative parliamentary bloc, moving much of the popular support for the KZP into the NSDAP along with nearly all their parliamentary seats.

This was just one of Hitler’s first steps in getting control into his own hands.

As an aside, do you know who the only high ranking Catholic Nazi ever excommunicated was?

It was Josef Goebbels.

Do you know why he was excommunicated?

Was it for crimes against humanity? For the murder of millions of innocent people?

No.

It was because he married a Protestant.

I guess you have to draw a line somewhere.

 

[Steadfast]

I knew on page one that this thread was not going to answer my question and it was being highjacked. Now you guys are so far off the original subject I don’t know how the mods have kept it going! I check back every few pages thinking maybe someone will remember the question and give me some kind of answer…


what I was looking for was some kind of chart or webpage or something that gave a short synopsis of MODERN Protestant sects who are anti-Catholic. Some are more hateful than others and I was just wondering if anyone ever wrote them down. (I know from another thread that Hagee hates Catholics–but what is his affiliation?) I have heard Pat Robertson say good and bad things about Catholics–what is his religious affiliation?

Did you ever get around to defining “Anti-Catholic”?

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Did you ever get around to defining “Anti-Catholic”?

not sure how much plainer I can make it----I mentioned hatefulness and gave two examples:

<<what I was looking for was some kind of chart or webpage or something that gave a short synopsis of MODERN Protestant sects who are anti-Catholic. Some are more hateful than others and I was just wondering if anyone ever wrote them down. (I know from another thread that Hagee hates Catholics–but what is his affiliation?) I have heard Pat Robertson say good and bad things about Catholics–what is his religious affiliation?>>

I did not say heretical I said ANTI-Catholic as in AGAINST–you know hateful, speaking bad of, bitter, ridiculing, lying?

I realize that there are people in every group who are bigoted this way, but I was trying to figure out which groups admit to it and encourage that sort of thing. I have a friend who went fundamentalist on me (from Unitarian Universalist!) and all of a sudden he is saying things like Catholics are not Christians etc…he claims he is not ‘prosperity theology’ but he can’t give me a definite answer as to what he calls himself now, he listens to Charles Stanley.