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Mustang1971
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Kolbe300, Thank you. I also am SSA and I admit it has been rough. You have expressed some very wonderful thoughts. Thank you for sharing.
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TheQuestioner
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…no religious life or priesthood? I think you may have been misinformed on that point. Homosexuals can join the priesthood or religious orders. Have you tried to do either? Also, the single life is a vocation as well. You can be a consecrated working single person.
Also, you can get in contact with support groups that don’t seek to get rid of your homosexuality as much as they seek to help you live with it in love. They support each other.
But no one said that.
But it’s not taboo for you to receive a hug, just like it’s not taboo for a man and woman to hug. No one here said any of that.
Look, far be it from me to claim I know what you are going through. I don’t, but you are in no way barred in seeking platonic physical affection.
Well its good you do that, but there’s no rule in place. Where have you been getting your information? You are being misinformed.
Ok, the constant warnings about staying chaste every time you mention your SSA being annoying is something I agree with. I could see how over some time it would start to get on anyone’s nerves.
ALL suffering is redemptive. All suffering can be used as penance for others. Your suffering included.
Saying you see SSA as a curse, not a cross is like saying in Catholic ears “I see SSA as a cross, not a cross” in secular ears. For Catholics, no suffering is a cross, and that cross is a curse for those who do not know Christ, but a blessing for those who know Him.
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TheQuestioner
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You seem to be quite bitter with God. I don’t have very many elegant words but all I can say is sometimes God allows things to happen to us that we don’t understand. We may not understand it today, or tomorrow, or even until the day of our death, but we will see that it was for our good that these things happened. Remember in the end that you have to say “Lord, my your will, not mine”.
Be grateful to the Church. Even though it’s members are flawed, if not for it’s teachings you would not have known how to deal with your SSA, and would have been acting in a way that secular society deems appropriate, that is, living a destructive lifestyle.
Know that God never punched you in the stomach. He gave you blessings. Though SSA may be a curse God let happen to you (not did to you) He will surely turn it into a blessing. In fact, it was being used as one, for the more you suffered, the more you relied on God, and the more you relied on Him, the closer you came to Him, and the closer you come to God, the greater you will be in heaven, and the more good you will do. Satan for his part may have made your suffering worse and worse, so that you would stop leaning on God (which is all we can do anyway, and is always the best option) by thinking that it wont work, and thus drift from Him. Don’t let Satan win. Continue to rely on God. God may have wanted to show you that it is Him who you must rely on and no one else. It is only Him you can trust. It is only Him who saves.
I’ll pray for you, not only that your SSA goes away, but that while you still have it God will give you many blessings through it, as I am sure He has. Just try to think back and count them. You will see they are too numerous.
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Kolbe300
Guest
No, you shouldn’t give up on changing those underlying issues. That certainly wasn’t what I was saying. I think working on those issues with counseling or spiritual direction is a fantastic idea.
What if a person doesn’t experience a change in their sexual orientation? Should we demand they not find a way to “live with it”? I believe we should seek to find how we can know true fulfillment through God, even when we have a homosexual orientation.
I am SSA. I have offered my mind, my soul, my heart, and even my body to God. I seek to love the least of those among us, since they are Jesus. And because I am single (my vocation), I have more time and opportunity than most to give of myself. How, I would ask, could that NOT be redemptive?
I disagree with you. Being single can be a vocation, and a beautiful one indeed. In fact, and as someone mentioned, the priesthood is not out of the question for every person dealing with SSA. There are actually lots of things we can do if we take the time to look beyond the things we cannot.
I know all of this from experience, and I know it well. It is far from easy.
The single life IS a vocation for many. We have to be able to embrace the beauty of what that life can offer. How many people out there are in dire need of love? Mother Teresa used to say that the greatest poverty in the world was a lack of love. And she certainly wasn’t talking about the kind of love that involves sex. How many people out there could benefit in ways we can’t even imagine if we were to offer love in its purest form? They are out there waiting for us, and we have two choices. We can focus entirely on what we cannot do, or we can focus entirely on what we can: we can love. The beautiful thing is that love is always redemptive.Except everything for the SSA person is NO. No priesthood, no marriage, no life companion, no vocation (except to work…oh,joy)…no social life (all the people your age are married and altogether far too busy for a loser like one, except for the pity invitation to Easter dinner or something), no nothing.
Peace,
Kolbe
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Trust me, most other men with SSA have absolutely no attraction for me whatsoever, so I’d have no problem with any issues of occasions of sin.
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Spirithound
Guest
You don’t need to be a Catholic to talk to a priest or a Catholic counsellor.
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m134e5
Guest
I have many friends, and we buy each other dinner all the time. We are not the least bit interested in each other sexually. Some elements of gender behavior are cultural- and they vary from place to place, from family to family, and even from friend to friend.
I like hanging out with my friends a lot (and nearly all of them are heterosexual men). I’m a big city person. I got transplanted to a small town 14 years ago and haven’t made it out yet. Most of my friends are people who, like me, prefer a big city atmosphere- with big city activities (concerts, museums, sporting events, etc). Pretty much all there is to do in this town that my friends and I like to do together is eat. Because we like hanging out a lot and want to do more than just sit around and talk, we coordinate our visits around mealtimes. Not all of us can pay all the time, and since it’s important enough for us to hang out regularly, sometimes one of us will pay for the other. It’s not a big deal. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING sexual implied here. I am not concerned about others thinking there might be either- if they are thinking there is, they should mind their own business.
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Chris258
Guest
My friends and I all tend to have many “young-at-heart” moments, though I suppose we really are young anyway.
When I was at college with them during the last year, it wasn’t at all weird for one of my close friends and I to go see a movie together. Yeah, we’d gather the bros together and go see something explosive and action-y every now and then, but we also didn’t have any qualms about seeing “How to Train your Dragon” together.
I even saw that one a couple more times just with one of my other friends, and another time with just my best friend. We really enjoy going at God-forsaken hours like 12:30pm on a weekday and no one is in the screening; private showing for us to goof off all we want! And I’m sure the last concern on my friends’ minds was whether I was secretly trying to seduce them or something. Whoever they are, people really should stop reading so much into very innocent activities.
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TheQuestioner
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Well that’s the thing right? No one would think you were gay, so these activities are not a source of scandal. However, if people knew you were gay (not that you are), and instead of a group of friends you went with one friend all the time, this would be quite scandalous, as it could lead other gay friends (in pairs of course) to do the same, and they run the risk of ending up having feelings for each other. This sin would be on your head then, as well as theirs. In a group there is more accountability, but as a pair it is not so easy.My friends and I all tend to have many “young-at-heart” moments, though I suppose we really are young anyway.
When I was at college with them during the last year, it wasn’t at all weird for one of my close friends and I to go see a movie together. Yeah, we’d gather the bros together and go see something explosive and action-y every now and then, but we also didn’t have any qualms about seeing “How to Train your Dragon” together.
And I’m sure the last concern on my friends’ minds was whether I was secretly trying to seduce them or something. Whoever they are, people really should stop reading so much into very innocent activities.
I’m not saying that the two gay friends will necessarily eventually grow feelings, but look at it this way. If I took a girl to the theater all the time at 12:30 am, what would everyone think? Would that be an environment that would eventually lead to feelings?
If you answer yes, then why would it be different for a pair of homosexual friends?
If me and a girl spent that much time together that often, would we not eventually, one or the other of us, develop feelings? Not necessarily, but it’s the right environment to foster romance. This is not wrong however, for a straight couple, as romance is a gift of God, but for a gay couple, this romance would be disordered and only leads to bad. Even if one person would never engage in a relationship with the other, he should still be mindful of the feelings of his friend. But again, i’m not saying romance** will** happen, but if it were to happen, it would be in this very environment.
That’s what I’m trying to convey. Certain activities in our society foster romance, like spending hours at friend of the opposite sex’s house late at night watching movies and sitting on the couch while drinking (or not). This could lead to something. It is an environment that eventually leads to feelings for one person or another. For homosexuals then, as long as they remain friends and are strong themselves this is not a problem provided no one knows they are gay, they can do the same. But if everyone knows they are gay and other homosexual couples think what they are doing is OK and not dangerous then they put themselves in a dangerous situation that the original couple may have been able to deal with but they might not.
My point is, you can be friends, in fact, be friends. I actually think it makes more sense for homosexual males to be closer friends with males than with females (they may be homosexual, but they are still male). However, be mindful that your behavior, that you may be able to handle, is not too much for someone weaker. Be mindful of scandal.
Really it’s analogous with the couple that lives together but doesn’t have sex. In their cohabitation they may never have sex, but if other couples thought that this was OK and did the same they place themselves in great danger.
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Chris258
Guest
I dunno if you saw my last post, but for some clarification: I do actually have SSA, and all my close friends are aware of it. As far as I know, I don’t have any friends who also experience SSA. Honestly, my SSA doesn’t really factor in much at all in our interactions; though I have spoken seriously about it with them at rare times, most of the time we all see it as some quirk not really meriting extended thought and energy. I even once absentmindedly revealed my SSA to several people when I was eating dinner with a big group of friends; I’m sure I blushed a bit, but we didn’t really make it into a big deal. My close friends and I usually laugh when we think about that occurrence.
If I were aware of someone with SSA observing my behavior, I don’t know that I would really alter it that much. If he were a Christian, then I would hope to bring him into vibrant and robust Christian friendships with us as well. This kind of exclusivity toward a single friend you speak of isn’t really the way I interact with my friends. I love each of my close friends very much, and I do make it a point to spend quality one-on-one time with them, but that never meant distancing from the others like a romantic couple tends to become a little distant from friends (which I personally think is an unhealthy habit).
Well if this observant person with SSA were actually in my group of friends, he would be well aware that my best friend is straight as an arrow, and even when my best friend and I spend quality time together, there’s really no chance of romance. He’d know we were just friends who liked spending time with each other. Same for when I spend time with my other close friends.
I don’t know how much your situations apply to me, though, since I’m not close friends, or even marginally friends, with anyone who experiences SSA, at least not to my knowledge. All of my close friends are heterosexual. If a closeted person is close enough to me socially to know that I have SSA, then he’d know my close friends whom I spend lots of quality time with are quite straight.
For what it’s worth, if I were acquainted with two SSA Christians who were becoming friends who participated in activities and quality time like I do with my friends, then I would be sure to give them a brotherly word of caution to protect themselves from that danger, regularly if I thought it necessary. The last thing I’d want them to do is isolate themselves from our community of friendships, almost like a romantic couple would do. I’d encourage them to always develop friendships both one-on-one and as a group with all of us.
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TheQuestioner
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Well yeah, it wouldn’t apply to you.
This is exactly what I and other posters have been trying to convey on this thread. “Be careful with your activity” is the message we have been trying to send, but other posters have misconstrued that message to make it sound as if we disagree that people with SSA could be friends with anyone who is straight or has SSA.
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bobby_1975
Guest
Where can I find that in the code of canon law or the catechism of the catholic church??
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Spirithound
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You can start here: vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#II
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maria_teresa
Guest
As always, it appears that whenever homosexuality is discussed, opinions abound as to the causation, nature, acceptable behavior, and everything else concerned with this topic. Recently, a new website has been created as a source of support for same-sex attracted persons. The website is fully adherent to the teachings of Holy, Mother Church; but, has as its focus “Coming out of the closet of shame, into the Light of Christ”. No same-sex attracted person ever need live with shame for who we are.
This new website, The CHASTITY Ring, is located at:
thechastityring.wordpress.com/
maria_teresa
This new website, The CHASTITY Ring, is located at:
thechastityring.wordpress.com/
maria_teresa
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maryharket
Guest
Wow!
Take Care Mary
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I'm shocked because just this morning my "adopted" daughter who I consider my family in every way is joining RCIA and the sister who was interviewing her asked if she or I were in a same sex relationship. She was shocked at first and said 'no' explaining that we are family and that is why we attend church together. This is a Franciscan church and is in full communion with Rome so I know that they don't roll their own rules.
What's interesting is the sister said that she was asking because my daughter has been divorced for 10 years and would need an annulment if she divorced due to homosexuality and if she were in a relationship right now (as well as if she wanted to marry heterosexually or pursue a religious vocation). Whoh! I am a little miffed that two women going to church together would be a sign of a same-sex relationship and I'm puzzled that the sister didn't say anything about the church not allowing same sex relationships even if they are chaste.
On the contrary when looking at their bulletin I found that they have LGBT group (not Courage) who plans social activities for members with SSA. I can assume these are promotions with chastity at the core but it does kind of confuse me about why some posters state that two friends with SSA can't participate in activities together-all the while this catholic church is actually sponsoring a group. I'm not condemning what the parish is doing it just seems confusing to me.
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maryharket
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Hello LCSM-I hope you haven’t bailed on the forum yet. I may be talking to the air if you have. I agree with you 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with a hug whatsoever! I think sometimes when we are trying to sort out what is “normal” and what is not “normal” according to church doctrine we sometimes over complicate things. We can literally take something as benign as a hug and turn it into something perverse when it is not being done for the purpose of perversion.
it would be like if I hugged another woman’s child and all of a sudden I was pegged as a child molester because that behavior could be seen by some as a “grooming” for future actions against the child-when all it was just affection. I believe this argument is starting to tread around dangerous territory. No one should be denied basic human contact just because there is some fear that it might lead them into sin. I lived in a building in San Francisco Ca and was hugged by many of the gay residents as a greeting and their seeing that I did not have SSA, never tried to entice me to “switch teams” as it were. They were just very demonstrative and friendly. As a christian I have gone into many churches and been hugged and kissed on the cheek by men and women and never worried that they were in the closet and would try to seduce me at a later date. I don’t know if they were SSA and I didn’t care because I didn’t sexualize the nature of their hugs. I just saw them all as good people who wanted to extend warmness to me. Nothing more.
LCSM hug and be hugged and remember that you are not a “sub human”. You are a child of God and he and his people love you-and though the church can never legitimize the condition- it should never allow it’s members to discriminate against those christian who struggle with a cross of this kind. Jesus would have loved you regardless if he would have met you in his day and today he loves you regardless even if he can’t hug you personally himself. If I was there I would give you the largest hug ever and try to assure you that as long as you keep God first in your heart and deal pray-fully with your struggles, you will surely know God’s grace.
Take Care Mary M.
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