Chavez demands Pope apologize for Indian comments

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CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez demanded Pope Benedict apologize to Indians in Latin America for saying this month in Brazil that the Roman Catholic Church purified them.

Chavez, who regularly clashes with the Catholic Church in Venezuela but had not directly criticized the Pope before, accused the Pontiff on Friday of ignoring the “holocaust” that followed Christopher Columbus’s 1492 landing in the Americas.

“With all due respect your Holiness, apologize because there was a real genocide here and, if we were to deny it, we would be denying our very selves,” Chavez said at an event on freedom of expression.
law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/galileo.html
 
bones_IV said:
Chavez’ statement shouldn’t be taken seriously.
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I have to disagree. He has dictatorial powers and control vast oil reserves. In recent months, he has used these powers to steal assets from companies and has threaten many groups. He has no qualms in calling himself a Marxist with is violently hostile to anyone who disagrees with them (especially religious organizations). Venezuela could easily become a Stalinist like nation.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
I have to disagree. He has dictatorial powers and control vast oil reserves. In recent months, he has used these powers to steal assets from companies and has threaten many groups. He has no qualms in calling himself a Marxist with is violently hostile to anyone who disagrees with them (especially religious organizations). Venezuela could easily become a Stalinist like nation.
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What would Chavez do if the Pope refuses to apologize?
 
bones_IV said:
What would Chavez do if the Pope refuses to apologize?
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Could be like Mexico and the Soviet Union in the early 20th century with the massacre of priests. Chavez seems to be type to do that if he does not get his way.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
I have to disagree. He has dictatorial powers and control vast oil reserves. In recent months, he has used these powers to steal assets from companies and has threaten many groups. He has no qualms in calling himself a Marxist with is violently hostile to anyone who disagrees with them (especially religious organizations). Venezuela could easily become a Stalinist like nation.
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He is also best buddies with Robert Kennedy Jr.
 
“I do not mean that nonbelievers cannot live a lofty and exemplary morality; I am only saying that a society in which God is absent will not find the necessary consensus on moral values or the strength to live according to the model of these values.” - Benedict XVI

Smoooooooth, Bennie. Not only is that not going to make any friends, it’ll drive away people with any sense of ethnic or historic pride. Doesn’t exactly help with ‘reaching out’ to those of us who’ve fallen away to various forms of non-theism, either. As one particular representative of such, I’d like to be behind the guy as long as he’s a force for good; this isn’t exactly reassuring.

Overall, Benedict seems to be following generally in the footsteps of John Paul II, minus the charisma 😦
 
Mirdath said:
Smoooooooth, Bennie. Not only is that not going to make any friends, it’ll drive away people with any sense of ethnic or historic pride. Doesn’t exactly help with ‘reaching out’ to those of us who’ve fallen away to various forms of non-theism, either. As one particular representative of such, I’d like to be behind the guy as long as he’s a force for good; this isn’t exactly reassuring.

Overall, Benedict seems to be following generally in the footsteps of John Paul II, minus the charisma 😦
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How many people have YOU brought into the church since you seem to think you are qualified to critique the Pope?
 
childofmary1143 said:
How many people have YOU brought into the church since you seem to think you are qualified to critique the Pope?
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I actually like how Pope Beneidct s doing things. I is not sugar coating anything. This is what we need now.
 
Mirdath said:
“I do not mean that nonbelievers cannot live a lofty and exemplary morality; I am only saying that a society in which God is absent will not find the necessary consensus on moral values or the strength to live according to the model of these values.” - Benedict XVI

Smoooooooth, Bennie. Not only is that not going to make any friends, it’ll drive away people with any sense of ethnic or historic pride. Doesn’t exactly help with ‘reaching out’ to those of us who’ve fallen away to various forms of non-theism, either. As one particular representative of such, I’d like to be behind the guy as long as he’s a force for good; this isn’t exactly reassuring.

Overall, Benedict seems to be following generally in the footsteps of John Paul II, minus the charisma 😦
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Do you disagree with the statement? I’d say it’s a hard thing to come up with a consensus of moral values, even if a society does not have an absence of God.
 
Truth is that Chavez can’t handle truth itself.

What we need today is straight out truth it is the only way to speak without confusing people, which by the way the world is doing on a daily basis these days. I for am a believer of the Pope and am grateful that he is telling the truth. If people run than they never belonged.

God Bless
Kathleen
 
Mirdath said:
“I do not mean that nonbelievers cannot live a lofty and exemplary morality; I am only saying that a society in which God is absent will not find the necessary consensus on moral values or the strength to live according to the model of these values.” - Benedict XVI

Smoooooooth, Bennie. Not only is that not going to make any friends, it’ll drive away people with any sense of ethnic or historic pride. Doesn’t exactly help with ‘reaching out’ to those of us who’ve fallen away to various forms of non-theism, either. As one particular representative of such, I’d like to be behind the guy as long as he’s a force for good; this isn’t exactly reassuring.

Overall, Benedict seems to be following generally in the footsteps of John Paul II, minus the charisma 😦
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Are you justifying what Chavez said? You do realize that Chavez is a committed communist.
 
Mirdath said:
Smoooooooth, Bennie.
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Mirdath,

Is it a requirement that a know nothing (agnostic) must also be a dumb arce?

Back to the point:

It wasn’t the Church that abused the native Americans. In fact Jesuit missionaries brought so many wonderful gifts to the Native Americans that the retelling would take a very long time. It was the Cynical enemies of the Church that followed the missionaries and who sought only gold. The Church always gets blamed for the ruinous actions of her enemies. It is true that people don’t so much hate the Church as they hate what they think they know about her.

CDL
 
Mirdath said:
“I do not mean that nonbelievers cannot live a lofty and exemplary morality; I am only saying that a society in which God is absent will not find the necessary consensus on moral values or the strength to live according to the model of these values.” - Benedict XVI

Smoooooooth, Bennie. Not only is that not going to make any friends, it’ll drive away people with any sense of ethnic or historic pride. Doesn’t exactly help with ‘reaching out’ to those of us who’ve fallen away to various forms of non-theism, either. As one particular representative of such, I’d like to be behind the guy as long as he’s a force for good; this isn’t exactly reassuring.

Overall, Benedict seems to be following generally in the footsteps of John Paul II, minus the charisma 😦
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Oh yes, he should be more like Jesus. You know, loved by everybody and accepted by everybody because he was so loving and made it his first priority to make friends and make people of all different backgrounds feel good about themselves, no matter their religion or lack of it. It is why he was awarded such great honors and awards throughout his life, and it is also why he lived a peaceful and full life. Benedict should be more like him…how dare he present the “truth” so bluntly! Would Jesus ever have done that? Besides, who is to say that Benedict’s “truth” is the “truth”? And who is Benedict to say that certain behaviors and choices are wrong? It’s not like Jesus any of those judgments. Benedict should really stop being so judgmental.

And the Indians were not hurting anybody before they became Christian. They were very peaceful people who never waged war or murdered on a grand scale like those evil European Christians. How dare Benedict say that Christianity corrected and fulfilled the pre-Christian religions! How dare he say that they were erroneous and incomplete and that they were unknowingly desiring Christ. This is so contrary to Jesus’ inclusiveness and tolerance. He would have accepted the Indians and their peaceful religion in a truly tolerant way. Shame on Benedict…he should know better than to assert that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and Life. Jesus never said those hurtful things. Benedict should learn from Jesus.

:rolleyes:
 
How can he be “communist” if he says this?:

“Chavez, who regularly criticizes world figures such as U.S. President George W. Bush, describes himself as Christian, grew up expecting to become a priest and says his socialist policies have roots in the teachings of Jesus Christ.”

from the same article this thread is linked to
 
Mirdath said:
“I do not mean that nonbelievers cannot live a lofty and exemplary morality; I am only saying that a society in which God is absent will not find the necessary consensus on moral values or the strength to live according to the model of these values.” - Benedict XVI

Smoooooooth, Bennie. Not only is that not going to make any friends, it’ll drive away people with any sense of ethnic or historic pride. Doesn’t exactly help with ‘reaching out’ to those of us who’ve fallen away to various forms of non-theism, either. As one particular representative of such, I’d like to be behind the guy as long as he’s a force for good; this isn’t exactly reassuring.

Overall, Benedict seems to be following generally in the footsteps of John Paul II, minus the charisma 😦
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So he should not speak e Truth for fear of offendng someone?

BTW-his name is Pope Benedict the 16. You want to criticize the Pope thats fine, You want to come into a Catholic Forum and mock the Pope by calling him “Bennie” that’s quite another thing. I suggest you check the Forum rules before you continue your mocking references to the Vicar of Christ.
 
estesbob said:
So he should not speak e Truth for fear of offendng someone?

BTW-his name is Pope Benedict the 16. You want to criticize the Pope thats fine, You want to come into a Catholic Forum and mock the Pope by calling him “Bennie” that’s quite another thing. I suggest you check the Forum rules before you continue your mocking references to the Vicar of Christ.
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:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
childofmary1143 said:
How many people have YOU brought into the church since you seem to think you are qualified to critique the Pope?
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Negative one. Me.
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jman507:
Do you disagree with the statement? I’d say it’s a hard thing to come up with a consensus of moral values, even if a society does not have an absence of God.
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Yes, I do. Morality did not originate with Rome, nor has Rome ever provided a perfect example of living to a moral standard, only an example of striving – which anyone can do. To say otherwise is the height of arrogance.
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bones_IV:
Are you justifying what Chavez said? You do realize that Chavez is a committed communist.
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Oh no, a commie!

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Chavez. I don’t like everything the man has done, but when he’s right, he’s right.
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GregoryPalamas:
It wasn’t the Church that abused the native Americans. In fact Jesuit missionaries brought so many wonderful gifts to the Native Americans that the retelling would take a very long time. It was the Cynical enemies of the Church that followed the missionaries and who sought only gold. The Church always gets blamed for the ruinous actions of her enemies. It is true that people don’t so much hate the Church as they hate what they think they know about her.
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The conquistadors were hardly ‘enemies’ of the Church; they simply were more into the last two parts of their ‘God, gold, and glory’ catchphrase. I do not blame the Church for their actions; however, the claim that the whole thing was a ‘purification’ makes sense only if you consider the Roman sowing of Carthage with salt a purification.
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estesbob:
So he should not speak e Truth for fear of offendng someone?
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I would rather he actually spoke the truth.

And to everyone who has problems with my irreverence, well, sorry, I don’t find a whole lot to be reverent about here. I’d also note I’m hardly the first person here to refer to the Pope in such a… familiar way; I seem to recall a regular on these boards talking about ‘Pope Benny of the Prada shoes’.
 
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