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placido
Guest
Is this now a game of numbers? How many left Jesus in John 6 and walked with Him no more? Are you of the opinion that those who leave are always right?
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TriuneUnity
Guest
hahaha, touche.Okay, those are fightin words! I mean really a “Reformed” person calling my teaching false.
Just couldn’t resist!
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Reformed
Guest
Do you understand baptismal regeneration is rejected by Protestants. That is a major theological difference, creating a different gospel.
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Reformed
Guest
I think the issue is referring to everything but the Holy Scriptures. I notice after being on this site for about a month, that Roman Catholics refer to Catholic sources and not necessarily Scripture, Although I have seen some Catholics quote Scripture. Even within Protestant commentaries, they are still just commentaries and not God-breathed. It really doesn’t matter what the intent was of the writers of Trent. I suspect it was close in perspective of burning the Reformers at the stake. Justin is safe and secure in the hands of Jesus where no one can snatch him from the hands of Jesus and the hands of the Father. The Council of Trent and the Catholic anathemas have no effect on Justin. Some on this thread have called Justin a false prophet and a heretic. I believe by the grace of God, the Father shined His light into Justin’s dark heart to see the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. God granted the new birth to Justin. In addition, God enabled Him to leave his childhood religion to the glory of God. He has been called out. That is a different perspective than calling Justin a false prophet or a heretic, isn’t it?
I believe Justin found his security in God alone, and not the Catholic Church.
At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” - John 10
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
How does the Bible receive such authority? We all know the Bible did not come out of itself and grant it’s own authority. As you discount the writings of the early Church fathers, early Church councils or commentaries, because they are not God breathed, please explain to us how your private interpertation and what you’ve been posting has anymore value. Afterall, you are not in scriptures and I sincerely doubt your words are God breathed, are they?
Catholics on the other hand can use scriptures to show authority given to the living Church Christ created and promised to protect until the consummation of the world. This was the living Church Christ prayed would become perfectly one. I have yet found scripture given authority to the Bible or sola scriptura, one’s private interpretations. Can you provide some scriptures on this please?
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TriuneUnity
Guest
By necessity it does because its authority is God’s authority due to its nature as having been God breathed. Maybe over simplistic but it’s the most accurate explanation.
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Reformed
Guest
This is the spiritual reality regardless if you are Protestant or Roman Catholic. A person must be born again to receive the Word of God as the Word of God. No church authority can open the heart of an unregenerate to receive the Word of God as the Word of God with a transforming effect. The Scripture and God’s truth is concealed until the Spirit of God reveals it to the elect of God. Here are two essential passages to make my point. Notice that Paul thanks God that some are able to receive the Word of God as the Word God. This has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church. All the glory goes to God alone. Water baptism does not cause a person to be born again. Therefore, many who have partook in water baptism cannot understand the things of God, because they are still dead in their sins and treaspasses, seperated from God. If water baptism is the instrument that God grants the new birth, why do some Roman Catholics have no desire and affection for God?
1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
Luke 10:21
In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Sorry, that’s “Welcome”“You’re welcome,” in German. WAIT! I KNOW THIS!!! I’ve seen, “Cabaret”!
Willkkommen!
It’s Bitte Schoen.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
You make many false accusations of what you think Catholics believe. You make an ad hominem statement to say Catholics have no desire or affection for God. Your agenda is starting to show through, in my opinion. Then you asked more questions in another attempt to avoid answering our questions. The agenda becomes more clear.
You have not addressed what instruments throughout history that God preserved those letters and epistles, brought them all together to be one complete book and delivered them through the ages until present day.
Are you saying the early Church fathers were not saved? They were not inspired by God? That they had no real faith?
Let me try and phrase this as simple as possible for you.
How did all those individual letters and epistles written decades after the death and resurrection of Christ, come together to be one complete Bible? How was that one complete Bible preserved until the present day?
I know you will say it was the work of God, but I want to know what mechanics, men, Churches, etc. God used to make this happen?
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White_Russian
Guest
Reformed: My post was not about the movement of Christians from one denomination to another. It was an analogy on Sola scriptura and the Catholic use of scriptures, traditions and the teaching authority of the magesterium.
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Reformed
Guest
I never said that my friend. Go back and read my post again. I said some Roman Catholics do not have a desire and affection for God. The same can be said about some Protestants. The Roman Catholic Church is a mix of converted (born again) and uncoverted people just like Protestant churches. Those Catholics who have been born again will have affection and a growing love from God. I do not believe water baptism causes the new birth. Therefore, not all Roman Catholics are born again. If you think the Roman Catholic Church is responsible for the New Testament, please give me your explanation of the Old Testament if you want to continue with your reasoning, okay?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
What you have never done, is address any simple questions put forth for your response.
You only make anti-Catholic statements and ask new questions. This is a discussion board. That means we provide our thought and opinions. If you do not know something, you should admit it instead of losing all credibility by avoiding questions, answering questions with more questions or bashing Catholicism.
Are you going to address my questions on the Bible, or do you simply do not know how the Bible came to be one complete book?
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qui_est_ce
Guest
No, I don’t, That’s the problem with the man-made religion of the Reformed tradition, begun 500 years ago, and never practiced during the 1,500 years of Christianity before Calvin. It’s unbiblical.
John 3 tells us we must be BORN again of water and the Holy Spirit in order to be saved.
Act 22:16 16
Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself** baptized and your sins washed away,** calling upon his name.’
Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the **washing (Bath in NAB) of regeneration and renewal **in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.”
Baptism regenerates our souls and is salvific. It washes away the stain of Original Sin and iniates us into the Family of God.
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Reformed
Guest
I think you are trying to force the issue. I already posted my position on sola scriptura, as well as other Protestants have attempted to share with you. The Scriptures are God-breathed, and through providence we have the Scriptures today. I can’t make you believe like me, and you cannot make me believe like you. This is a public forum site, and you seem to be the one person who have issues with me. This is not like the other catholic site which filters and screens postings from you. Let the truth of God come out according to His will. Even before the cannon of Scripture, the early church received the Epistles as self-authenticating, because they recognized each epistile as authority from God within each one of them. It is an act of God my friend. God rules and reigns according to His wisdom and His good pleasure.
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PerryJ
Guest
You claim that Catholics do not understand the word of God; yet when I brought up Apostolic Succession as being cleary in the Bible you did not understand. In Act’s Matthias is numbered as one of the eleven apostles. You charge us with not understanding the Bible; however, when the Bible cleary states that Matthias was made one of the apostles you appear to not understand. Peter named an Apostle after Christ’s death. It is Apostolic succession. Just because a person can quote the Bible does not mean one understands it.
Where do you get these false claims about the Church. The Catholic Church has not claimed to be able to open the heart of the unregenerate. “No church authority can open the heart of an unregenerate”. Stop posting your personal opinion of the Church. Even if we are wrong do you believe the Lord appreciates you stating falsities about a Church? You do not understand the Church and as such stop making false accusations.
Your statement that you believe Justin is in heaven is quite a statement. You have assumed the role of Christ and state who is in heaven and who isn’t. By what authority do you make this claim. Are you now Christ?
I appreciate your zeal; however, much of what you state is wrong. It maybe better for you to ask questions first. You do not understand the Catholic faith. This way we can explain it to you and then you can discuss the matter.
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White_Russian
Guest
Wait a minute, Protestant 101, while I roll my eyes on this one. You show you are ill-informed of the Catholic Mass. The pope is mentioned in the Mass one time. I would tell you, but I think you should attend one Mass to find out at what part he is mentioned. As I said before, read some supplemental materials, You are extremely ill-informed of the Catholic Church.You are pro-Catholic, as evidenced by you bowing to the authority of the Pope every Sunday.
But I thank you for these posts, they make me read more about the Catholic Church and reinforce my faith.
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Reformed
Guest
The Catholic Church indirectly claims to have the authority to grant the new brith to sinners through the sacrament of water baptism. That is called baptismal regeneration. A Mormon can quote scripture too and claim apostolic succession. Do you understand that these are historical issues causing the Protestant Reformation about 500 years ago. I am not posting anything new, but I am posting what the Reformers believed 500 years ago for departing from Rome. Sola Scriptura and the gospel of God’s grace defined within justification by faith are the essential issues.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I’m not the only one with issues on your style which appears to be an agenda. You do not answer specific questions.
I’m asking one more time to prove the above point.
How did the letters and epistles, written by the Apostles and sent to different locations around Asia, become one complete Bible?
I believe God protected them and caused this to happen, but what I want to hear you say is how that occured? What instruments, men or Church actions did He use to bring the Bible together and preserve those scriptures until present day? Divine providence is not an explanation. That’s like saying, it fell out of the sky.
You’ve disgarded the early Church fathers and the Church, how does your private interpretation have any meaning? Afterall, you are not in scriptures and I do not believe what you post is God breathed. If I am wrong in this assertion, please explain YOUR authority.
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Reformed
Guest
If you do not like the answer of divine providence, then you are in the flesh. The Church Fathers cannot be more authoritative than the Apostles in the New Testament. In addition, many of the Church Fathers contradicted each other. Some actually held to Protstant beliefs. Look to the Scriptures for light, and not extra-biblical sources. The Church is not the Roman Catholic Church, do you seem to understand the Protestant position on the invisible church? You are trying to base your arguments with ideas that Protestants reject in the light of Scripture.
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TriuneUnity
Guest
I won’t go too much into this one as the thread has already changed topics about 40 times LOL. Matthias replacing Judas does not prove apostolic succession since Matthias wasn’t a successor to the apostles; he was an apostle. The passage shows that the apostolic ministry was to remain at 12 members. There are, of course, those who would say that Matthias wasn’t truly an apostle as it was merely a human method used by the 11 and God really replaced Judas with Paul. I won’t go there, though lol.
Interestingly, if the Catholic Church, because it’s supposedly evil, has no sense whatsoever on how to interpret Scripture, as many Protestants claim…that would mean Rome wouldn’t understand; the hypostatic union, the doctrine of the Trinity, the virgin birth, the second coming, the Real Presence in the Sacrament of the Altar, baptismal regeneration, heaven & hell, the person and work of Christ, the resurrection, etc etc. All these would remain a mystery to Rome if she couldn’t understand the basics of the Christian message. Those who make such claims about Rome not understanding anything really need to look in the mirror and wonder whether their denial of the Real Presence, baptismal regeneration, dispensational falsehoods, etc doesn’t show that they don’t understand Scripture, before they turn around and accuse the Catholic Church of it.
Oddly enough, I would say the Church does open the heart of the unregenerate in a secondary sense. God does not regenerate sinners apart from the means of word and sacrament. He doesn’t regenerate sinners apart from the Church. No one gets to walk down the street to the liquor store and gets regenerated. This modern individualistic drivel that has crept into Protestantism is truly loathsome.
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