check out this anti catholic blog

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TriuneUnity said:
Because they abandoned the teaching of sola scriptura as espoused by the Lutheran reformers.
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True, but show me where sola scriptura was the norm of Christianity before Luther?
TriuneUnity said:
And therein lies the rub; Lutherans hold to sola scriptura. Roman Catholics hold to sola ecclesia.

We have no lack of authority. Because other sects do, does not mean we do also.
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What is your authority? Why are there different Lutheran denominations? Is it is worship only or are there doctrinal differences. If it’s only worship, why would there be a new denomination? In CC, we have different types of parishes, some are defined by boundaries, others as personal. So, in St Louis we have a personal parish that ministers to hispanics, same liturgy (either Tridentine or Novus Ordo), different language. We have a personal parish for Vietnamese. We have a masses for young adults, with praise and worship style singing. (I KNOW you hate that, and so do I, but it’s a matter of taste or lack there of).
 
qui_est_ce said:
True, but show me where sola scriptura was the norm of Christianity before Luther?
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Well…I obviously couldn’t go through a historical description of the entire early church period. Would statements from the fathers help here?
What is your authority?
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Our final infallible authority is Scripture. Our inerrant church authority is the teachings of the Lutheran confession.
Why are there different Lutheran denominations?
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Most of them started as regional churches/synods and do not necessarily disagree on doctrine. In the case of some of them, they have abandoned adherence to the confessions of the faith. This is true of the liberal denominations. The LCMS and WELS separated from fellowship because of liberalizing that occurred in the LCMS in the 50s. Prior to that, however, they were in perfect agreement on doctrine. They were different synods, one from Missouri, the other Wisconsin. But they weren’t different denominations.
Is it is worship only or are there doctrinal differences. If it’s only worship, why would there be a new denomination?
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I do not know of any bodies that have schismed over worship forms. The Lutheran confessions do not mandate one particular form of worship. The historic liturgy versus contemporary forms would be a matter of preference, not necessarily doctrine. Although Lutherans who strictly adhere to the confessions tend to heavily favor the historic liturgy.
 
qui est ce, thank you for the correction and the knowledge earlier.

Who changed the title of this?

Is this the 41st time this post has changed topics?
 
TriuneUnity said:
{snip}Our final infallible authority is Scripture. Our inerrant church authority is the teachings of the Lutheran confession.
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As interesting as this thread is, I’m going to unsubscribe and to to the other one on Luther and Calvin. Very interesting.
TriuneUnity said:
Most of them started as regional churches/synods and do not necessarily disagree on doctrine. In the case of some of them, they have abandoned adherence to the confessions of the faith. This is true of the liberal denominations. The LCMS and WELS separated from fellowship because of liberalizing that occurred in the LCMS in the 70s. Prior to that, however, they were in perfect agreement on doctrine. They were different synods, one from Missouri, the other Wisconsin. But they weren’t different denominations.
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that makes perfect sense. What you call Synods, Catholics call Rites.
Triune, I really appreciate your not taking disagreements as attacks. Your openness has furthered my understandings!
 
Reformed said:
Do you think the anathemas of the Council of Trent applies to Justin? Please notice that Justin used Reformed references on his blog. Therefore, do you think Sola Scriptura, Triune, and myself are false prophets too since we are all Reformed Christians? Why isn’t Justin a separated brethren instead of a false prophet. By definition, he is now a Protestant or a protestor of Rome. 🤷 :confused: :whistle:
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Reformed.
 
Reformed said:
This is the spiritual reality regardless if you are Protestant or Roman Catholic. A person must be born again to receive the Word of God as the Word of God. No church authority can open the heart of an unregenerate to receive the Word of God as the Word of God with a transforming effect. The Scripture and God’s truth is concealed until the Spirit of God reveals it to the elect of God. Here are two essential passages to make my point. Notice that Paul thanks God that some are able to receive the Word of God as the Word God. This has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church. All the glory goes to God alone. Water baptism does not cause a person to be born again. Therefore, many who have partook in water baptism cannot understand the things of God, because they are still dead in their sins and treaspasses, seperated from God. If water baptism is the instrument that God grants the new birth, why do some Roman Catholics have no desire and affection for God?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

Luke 10:21
In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
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Reformed.
 
qui_est_ce said:
As interesting as this thread is, I’m going to unsubscribe and to to the other one on Luther and Calvin. Very interesting.
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Then why are you unsubscribing!!? lol
that makes perfect sense. What you call Synods, Catholics call Rites.
Triune, I really appreciate your not taking disagreements as attacks. Your openness has furthered my understandings!
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It’s my raison d’etre! (eww did I use French? Patooey)
 
TriuneUnity said:
What are you doing? LOL
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Glad you asked. I noticed that the post to which I was replying was not, “check out this anti catholic blog,” so I kept going back until I found out who changed the topic in the Title line and saw that twice it was Reformed. I have heard that that is not allowed on this forum. I don’t know if that is true, though, but, if it is, it is documented.
 
adstrinity said:
Glad you asked. I noticed that the post to which I was replying was not, “check out this anti catholic blog,” so I kept going back until I found out who changed the topic in the Title line and saw that twice it was Reformed. I have heard that that is not allowed on this forum. I don’t know if that is true, though, but, if it is, it is documented.
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Hmm…I didn’t notice that. What was it changed to?

edit: n/m I just noticed it.
 
TriuneUnity said:
Hmm…I didn’t notice that. What was it changed to?

edit: n/m I just noticed it.
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“Is Justin a false prophet or a seprated brethren” and “Glory to God alone!”
…For those that didn’t want to go back and check.
 
TriuneUnity said:
About as close as Scott Hahn is to becoming Lutheran.

Much of Roman Catholic teaching is true. Much of it is not. The same is true for other church bodies that I am not in confessional agreement with. Because I affirm that which Rome affirms, namely, baptismal regeneration and the Real Presence, does not mean I am in any way, shape, or form becoming Roman Catholic.
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Thanks for the fellowship. I did not know Lutherans believed in a form of baptismal regeneration. I know there is a very orthodox Lutheran community and a very liberal one too. The same can be said for Presbyterian bodies too. My 7 year old niece attends a very orthodox Lutheran church, and I agree with the statement of faith of that particular Luthern church. I believe the Reformed confessions believe in the actual presence in communion, and a means of grace. Regarding the sacraments, I am not that convince one way or another. I don’t believe in baptismal regeneration, but wish it was true. I have parents and 3 teenage sons who have been baptized. I’m not so sure that all have been born from above.

I think you are on the road to Rome my brother…LOL. Scott Hahn was PCA or OPC, right?
 
Reformed said:
Thanks for the fellowship. I did not know Lutheran believed in a form of baptismal regeneration. I know there is a very orthodox Lutheran community and a very liberal one too. The same can be said for Presbyterians too. My 7 year old niece attends a very orthodox Lutheran church, and I agree with the statement of faith of that particular Luthern church. I think you are on the road to Rome my brother…LOL. Scott Hahn was PCA or OPC, right?
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If that was the case, the entire Lutheran Church would have been on the road to Rome for 500 years because baptismal regeneration has always been a part of the Lutheran Confessions.

Scott Hahn was PCA, I believe. I could be wrong on that.
 
TriuneUnity said:
If that was the case, the entire Lutheran Church would have been on the road to Rome for 500 years because baptismal regeneration has always been a part of the Lutheran Confessions.

Scott Hahn was PCA, I believe. I could be wrong on that.
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I know Martin Luther is not the standard of truth. But how did he reconcile baptismal regeneration with justification by faith alone?
 
Reformed said:
I know Martin Luther is not the standard of truth. But how did he reconcile baptismal regeneration with justification by faith alone?
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Baptism grants the gift of faith because it is a visible preaching of the gospel. The faith that is given in Baptism is a faith which justifies.
 
TriuneUnity said:
Baptism grants the gift of faith because it is a visible preaching of the gospel. The faith that is given in Baptism is a faith which justifies.
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Are you saying baptism is proclaimed as a picture of the gospel too? How about the infants?
 
Reformed said:
Are you saying baptism is proclaimed as a picture of the gospel too?
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A picture of the gospel? I suppose you would have to define that a little further. The power of Baptism to deliver the gospel is based on the word of God with the water “I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”
 
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