Cheering for excommunication of politicians

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Sanctus:
Here you have hit on the real issue…the sin/error that lead the politicians to being diciplined in the Church in the first place was a sin of PRIDE…thinking you know better or can do what you want to inspite of the Church is quite a prideful and presumptious thought…unfortunantly when we have that “haha” reaction instead of the other heart felt legitimate rejocing…that haha reaction is OUR pride showing through…and you’re right…pride is one of the hardest things for many of us to swallow.
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I would tythe considerable money to God to see Kerry (or a like presidential candidate) stop, convert, live and speak the Gospel. It is not about “Ha Ha” or pride. It is about standing for truth in season and out of season. It is doing what is hard because it is right. It is about being heroic in the face of mockery and obstinancy. And this is why it is seldom seen as our heros are few and far between.
 
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Brendan:
Aquinas agreed with the New Advent as well. The article did say

“For instance, it would be lawful to pray for the death of a perniciously active heresiarch with a view to putting a stop to his ravages among the Christian people.”

And that statement is correct. It would be lawful (not sinful) to pray this way, as the intent of the prayer is the overall protection of souls (the Christian people). Thus is it therefore lawful, and New Advent’s statement is in line with Catholic teaching.

Aquinas, for example, stated that it was more just to put a heretic to death than a murderer, as the murder only kills bodies, while the heretic kills souls.

The better way, however, would be to pray for the protection of faithful souls from the ravages of heretics, and leave the actual method up to God.
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Thanks for th info. I knew I could rely on the old CE.
 
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Brad:
I would tythe considerable money to God to see Kerry (or a like presidential candidate) stop, convert, live and speak the Gospel. It is not about “Ha Ha” or pride. It is about standing for truth in season and out of season. It is doing what is hard because it is right. It is about being heroic in the face of mockery and obstinancy. And this is why it is seldom seen as our heros are few and far between.
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I mentioned nothing about it being wrong to rejoice that the process works and that the Church is being prudent…actually I’m pretty sure that I said it was a good thing and that I’m elated to see that the Church values her sons and daughters enough to dicipline them.

In the post you quoted I was speaking that it is pride that leads politicians astray and pride that leads to the illigetimate rejocing of their dicipline as opposed to the rejocing that the Church upheld her values.

I think it is obvious to everyone that there are many people who are reasonable and are happy that the Church diciplines as she sees fit in order to protect her flock (I am one of them)…then there are the obvious few who’s reaction to the issue is so obviously uncharitable and boastful that you can draw almost no other conclusion than they are being quite prideful.
 
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Sanctus:
I mentioned nothing about it being wrong to rejoice that the process works and that the Church is being prudent…actually I’m pretty sure that I said it was a good thing and that I’m elated to see that the Church values her sons and daughters enough to dicipline them.

In the post you quoted I was speaking that it is pride that leads politicians astray and pride that leads to the illigetimate rejocing of their dicipline as opposed to the rejocing that the Church upheld her values.
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I understand. I was actually responding to the assumed “HA HA” mentality that Alan mentioned. My mistake for not clarifying.
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Sanctus:
then there are the obvious few who’s reaction to the issue is so obviously uncharitable and boastful that you can draw almost no other conclusion than they are being quite prideful.
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For example?
 
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Brendan:
Aquinas agreed with the New Advent as well. The article did say
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Saint Thomas was never pope and was not protected with the charism of infallibility. If he agreed with that citation, then I disagree with HIM. Lots of saints believed and said things that didn’t become Church teaching.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
I’ve noticed it is fashionable for supporters of the Church to stand by and yell, “take that you evil politician” when she sanctions one.

This :clapping: to me seem like a spiritually incorrect way to deal with the news that one of our brothers has fallen away.

I think those who rejoice at the excommunication of a politician ought to excommunicate themselves and go minister to him.

Most of those excommunicated are my political foes, btw. No way would I support Kerry, but nor should I have rejoiced in the Church disciplining him. I’m sorry that I did revel in it a bit. Back in Sister Anne’s class in eighth grade, if I snickered when another was disciplined I’d get disciplined too.

Alan
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Excommunication is suppoesed to be a way for The Sinner to realize what that person did was of a ‘grave sin matter’.
(I think it’s in 1 Corinthians somewhere, where that person is ‘put out’.

However if the sinner doesn’t repent, then that person will shrug off the excommunication. Thus, pride and a hardened heart takes over.
Simply pray for those who are on the edge of excommunication or have been excommunicated.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Saint Thomas was never pope and was not protected with the charism of infallibility. If he agreed with that citation, then I disagree with HIM. Lots of saints believed and said things that didn’t become Church teaching.
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How is the quote against Church teaching?
 
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fix:
How is the quote against Church teaching?
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Fix: I’m on my way out the door to school, so I cannot answer in depth. In a rush, I can only think it’s problematic when compared to Christ’s Words: “Pray for them who use you dispitefully,” “forgive us our trepasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,” etc. I’m sure there’s more, but no time now. God bless.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
I’ve noticed it is fashionable for supporters of the Church to stand by and yell, “take that you evil politician” when she sanctions one.

This :clapping: to me seem like a spiritually incorrect way to deal with the news that one of our brothers has fallen away.

I think those who rejoice at the excommunication of a politician ought to excommunicate themselves and go minister to him.

Most of those excommunicated are my political foes, btw. No way would I support Kerry, but nor should I have rejoiced in the Church disciplining him. I’m sorry that I did revel in it a bit. Back in Sister Anne’s class in eighth grade, if I snickered when another was disciplined I’d get disciplined too.

Alan
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Amen Alan!!!
We need to rebuke those who glory in the fall of another. Look, I wouldn’t vote for him for the very reason that his faith doesn’t mean as much to him as his political carreer, but I agree with Alan that we shouldn’t rejoice in his misery. He needs our prayers to come back into communion with the Catholic Community he professes to belong to. It makes all of us that proclaim our Catholic heritage look bad when we don’t practice compassion and mercy for our fallen brethern. The only thing I disagree with Alan on is that I consider it an honor to minister to my felllow man, an honor I am not worthy of most of the time, therefore I wouldn’t assign it as a “punishment.” Perhaps those who rejoiced in his misery could very briefly feel the absense of our Lord in their life…I know it would hurt me more than anyI can think of if I didn’t feel our Lord’s love in my life even for a minute. How desolate!!!
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Fix: I’m on my way out the door to school, so I cannot answer in depth. In a rush, I can only think it’s problematic when compared to Christ’s Words: “Pray for them who use you dispitefully,” “forgive us our trepasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,” etc. I’m sure there’s more, but no time now. God bless.
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But the statement from C.E. said the praying for the death of a heretic was not “unlawful”. For it to be unlawful, the Church would have to have made a declaration against such such prayer.

Are you aware of any such declaration?
 
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BlestOne:
Amen Alan!!!
We need to rebuke those who glory in the fall of another. Look, I wouldn’t vote for him for the very reason that his faith doesn’t mean as much to him as his political carreer, but I agree with Alan that we shouldn’t rejoice in his misery.
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But what if the rejoicing is for the proclamation of Truth; is not that something to rejoice in ?

The reproachment of sinners is a Spiritual Work of Mercy, should we not complement someone who performs such a work?
 
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BlestOne:
Amen Alan!!!
We need to rebuke those who glory in the fall of another. Look, I wouldn’t vote for him for the very reason that his faith doesn’t mean as much to him as his political carreer, but I agree with Alan that we shouldn’t rejoice in his misery. He needs our prayers to come back into communion with the Catholic Community he professes to belong to. It makes all of us that proclaim our Catholic heritage look bad when we don’t practice compassion and mercy for our fallen brethern. The only thing I disagree with Alan on is that I consider it an honor to minister to my felllow man, an honor I am not worthy of most of the time, therefore I wouldn’t assign it as a “punishment.” Perhaps those who rejoiced in his misery could very briefly feel the absense of our Lord in their life…I know it would hurt me more than anyI can think of if I didn’t feel our Lord’s love in my life even for a minute. How desolate!!!
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So who are we rebuking? Who is out rejoicing in the fall of another? When has a prominent politician been excommunicated? What on earth are we talking about here?
 
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Brendan:
But what if the rejoicing is for the proclamation of Truth; is not that something to rejoice in ?

The reproachment of sinners is a Spiritual Work of Mercy, should we not complement someone who performs such a work?
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That sounds more like Vengence is mine sayth the Lord to me. I think that rather than rejoice in someones downfall we can rejoice in truth and in our church taking a stand but not in the personal spiritual destruction of another.
 
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