Chicken Pox Vaccine?

[MooCowSteph]

Momsix:

Chicken Pox in Adults:
I had this at 33. Right about then a drug came out called Zovirax. It really is a drug for herpes, but it is effective in treating chickenpox. I had to bully my doctor into giving it to me, but he did and I was only ill and uncomfortable for 3 days. By the 4th day I was nearly myself again.
I did not suffer any side affects from this med. or the chickenpox but there is some question about how much immunity you get from the disease if you suppress the symptoms/duration by taking Zovirax. I figured I went 35 years without it, I could go 35 more! And that was 10 years ago.
Anyway it is something to check out.
Momsix
Oh I went on to having 4 more healthy children after this, one conceive only a month after the chicken pox was over!

My husband also had Cicken Pox around 33 and received Zovirax. He was *miserable, *but the drugs helped tremendously. They were about $100 a bottle at that time, however. It is MUCH worse to contract CP as an adult than as a child. If I had not gotten them before child bearing years, I would have considered the vaccine.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

Chicken Pox seemed like no big deal as a kid - unpleasant for a couple of weeks, but long since forgotten. However it was more serious for my wife and her sister when they had it as children - they had the lesions in the mouth and throat, difficulty eating and breathing and whatnot.

I also know several older adults who have gotten shingles and been laid up and out of commission for several months - I think this is the most common serious complication of chicken pox, and it’s more common than I realized.

I just heard that there’s a new shingles vaccine - anyone know anything about that?

Anyway, I was at one time prone to dismiss chicken pox vaccine as a “who needs that” kind of thing, because it didn’t seem like such a serious disease. But I’ve heard enough stories about very bad cases and long-lasting complications that I realize that, even if it’s no big deal for 99.9% of us, and if only 0.1% of cases have complications, that’s still hundreds of thousands of potential complications if everyone gets the disease at some point in their life.

 

[kamz]

My mother in law had polio as a child, she almost died, the doctors expected her to die from it, it is only by the grace of God that she lived.

I personally believe that God gave us doctors, sciencetists, etc. to do good such as find vaccines to keep us from getting sick, of course, they have also done some harm with stem cell research etc. but I don’t think God wants me to let my child get polio, dtp, etc. etc. when they have vaccines that will prevent them.

If you don’t belive in vaccines, if your child gets cancer, then what? No chemo, meds, etc. either?

I would never be able to forgive myself if my child contracted polio or anything that can be prevented because I would not have that child vaccinated. There are so many what ifs in life, why would I want my child to even take a tiny chance in getting a disease that could kill, disform, cause terrible pain?

I’m glad we vaccinate our kids, I don’t regret it, I worry enough the way it is about my kids, at least I can cross this worry off my list.

Also, my friend had shingles while pregnant, she was in bed for 4 months with them, the pain was so bad she thought she would die and when you get them when your pregnant there is nothing you can do or take for the pain, if there was a vaccine for shingles, I’d get it for myself, my husband had shingles and was laid up for over a month

 

[Shari]

We stopped giving our kids any shots because of the risks in the way they are made, as well as the chicken pox vacine and the mmr both are made using aborted fetus tissue. If you go to a chiropractor or know one aks them about it, in our area they give out the books that tell a lot more than what the docs want you to know. I just finished reading a book, can’t remember the exact name I will have to post it later, that told how the vacines are made and a lot of the side effects. Such as sids is being linked with the vaccines as well as autism is up over 21% in the us. It was either in China or Japan they stopped giving the babies immunizations until they were 2 and their sids rate dropped to 0. Also the goverment by the yr 97 paid out over 800 million dollars to families who children had died or been harmed do to the shots. For every vaccine given a portion of the cost for them goes into a fedral fund to pay the victims. We just had our 5th baby and she won’t be getting any vaccines, nor will the rest of the children be getting anymore!! My Dr is ok with that thankfully.

 

[Michels]

kamz:

My mother in law had polio as a child, she almost died, the doctors expected her to die from it, it is only by the grace of God that she lived.

I personally believe that God gave us doctors, sciencetists, etc. to do good such as find vaccines to keep us from getting sick, of course, they have also done some harm with stem cell research etc. but I don’t think God wants me to let my child get polio, dtp, etc. etc. when they have vaccines that will prevent them.

If you don’t belive in vaccines, if your child gets cancer, then what? No chemo, meds, etc. either?

I would never be able to forgive myself if my child contracted polio or anything that can be prevented because I would not have that child vaccinated. There are so many what ifs in life, why would I want my child to even take a tiny chance in getting a disease that could kill, disform, cause terrible pain?

I’m glad we vaccinate our kids, I don’t regret it, I worry enough the way it is about my kids, at least I can cross this worry off my list.

Also, my friend had shingles while pregnant, she was in bed for 4 months with them, the pain was so bad she thought she would die and when you get them when your pregnant there is nothing you can do or take for the pain, if there was a vaccine for shingles, I’d get it for myself, my husband had shingles and was laid up for over a month

Which human can say their life, or the life of their child is more important than the life of an abortated baby? Is preventing sickness that only lasts a month worth ending a life?

 

[Mom_of_one]

I immunized my son, not knowing that this was the case, but I found out about the aborted babies-immunization connection shortly before he was due for the MMR booster. I forgot the reason why I went ahead and had him get the booster(I’ll try to remember when I’m not so tired) I do recall that I had heard a good theological explanation of why it was OK, but now, I’ve heard more and I may have been wrong.

What about the possibility of the MMR-autism link?

Just checked out the cog website. The argument I heard was “remote material cooperation” That’s what I used to decide to give him the vaccination.

 

[jess7396]

I am not sure if the Apologists here ever answered to this, but from all I have read (and it’s been a lot), the Church has not taken an official stand on the use of these vaccines (which for routine childhood vaccines, include the CP and the MMR-due to the Rubella portion).

At this point the Church has left the issue up to the well formed parental conscience, my own well formed conscience says no, so my children will not be using these vaccines any more. (we did have them before we knew). FTR- my brother, whom I highly respect, has decided with his well-formed conscience, to use the vaccines.

A couple of things should be cleared up, #1- I have no idea why people think that getting the vaccine will prevent them from getting CP as an adult, or shingles. This is completely untrue. At this point the medical community has no clue how long the vaccine is effective, so- people WILL need boosters to get through an entire life without the diseases. and #2- there is no moral relativism here, it is not how bad the CP or Rubella are as diseases that decide wether or not these vaccines should be used. It is our well-formed consciences that should make this decision, and there should be no part of consideration to the severity of the disease. Either it is ok to beneift from an abortion, or it is not. (ala stem cell arguments, doesn’t matter how bad Parkinson’s is, or wether Michael J Fox has it, that is not the point)

Also- please keep in mind that the more people that use the vaccines, the more doses that are used, will lead us closer to the date where another baby must be “sacrificed” to keep this going. These lines are not ever-lasting- at some point it will be done again, unless we DEMAND that the vaccines manufacturers make a vaccine in other ways.

You can contact Merpk from the COG for Life site. (maybe the person who confused them for some cult group could edit out their first message, in case someone doesn’t make it to reading their clarification - thanks!).

 

[Bobby_Jim]

jess7396:

Also- please keep in mind that the more people that use the vaccines, the more doses that are used, will lead us closer to the date where another baby must be “sacrificed” to keep this going. These lines are not ever-lasting- at some point it will be done again, unless we DEMAND that the vaccines manufacturers make a vaccine in other ways.

I don’t believe this is a true statement. I could be wrong, but from what I know of cell culture, if you’re careful you can keep them growing and dividing essentially forever.

 

[kamz]

In our school system, even the Catholic school my kids go to, all immuniztions must be up to date or no going to school, I am not interested in homeschooling and no shots = no school

This is the case in most schools, no shots no school, I am sending my children to a Catholic school and they are telling me, no shots, no school, and this is my parishes school.

I think it is of course a personal choice, I have no desire to homeschool my kids and I’m thrilled to be sending them to an awesome Catholic school where they can learn not only about reading, writing, math but also about their Catholic faith, but the rules are very clear, no shots, no school.

In fact for my state MN this is the case for all schools :yup:

 

[jess7396]

Bobby Jim:

I don’t believe this is a true statement. I could be wrong, but from what I know of cell culture, if you’re careful you can keep them growing and dividing essentially forever.

I think I am right , but I can’t find the original article I read about it in, so here’s info. from a quick google search:
cogforlife.org/fetalvaccinetruth.htm#The_Need_for_Further_Fetal_Tissue
(also taken from the COG site, VERY reliable)

Also- kamz- It is also the law here in NY, and my daughter will be starting kindergarten in the Fall. I WILL be fighting this, as, IMO it should be a simple obvious thing that CATHOLIC schools would not require children to be shot full of vaccines derived from aborted fetuses, and where Catholic schools do require it, good people should be fighting it. Good change never happens when people stand by and do nothing.

IMO, the lay people will save our Church/Faith from the moral decline . (but it’s not opinion really, it is what I was told by a wonderful Orthodox priest who married my parents, baptised us kids, and died a few years ago at around 90 years old)

 

[leaner]

jess7396:

I think I am right , but I can’t find the original article I read about it in, so here’s info. from a quick google search:
cogforlife.org/fetalvaccinetruth.htm#The_Need_for_Further_Fetal_Tissue
(also taken from the COG site, VERY reliable)

Also- kamz- It is also the law here in NY, and my daughter will be starting kindergarten in the Fall. I WILL be fighting this, as, IMO it should be a simple obvious thing that CATHOLIC schools would not require children to be shot full of vaccines derived from aborted fetuses, and where Catholic schools do require it, good people should be fighting it. Good change never happens when people stand by and do nothing.

IMO, the lay people will save our Church/Faith from the moral decline . (but it’s not opinion really, it is what I was told by a wonderful Orthodox priest who married my parents, baptised us kids, and died a few years ago at around 90 years old)

No school, catholic or otherwise can tell you “you have to or you can’t come here” – it’s the law, you can opt out for moral reasons – doesn’t even have to be “religious” per se – so the Catholic school cannot argue that either. I’ll find it for you, but I’m sure if you google “religious/moral exemption from vaccinations” or something similar, you’ll find it yourself. If you’re truly opposed to it, that’s your silver bullet.

 

[leaner]

Here’s the first reference I came up with:

A State-by-State Summary of Vaccine Exemptions:

Medical Exemption: All states permit a medical exemption to “mandatory” vaccinations when a medical doctor certifies that a vaccine is containdicated for the individual. (Most doctors refuse to sign a medical waiver.)

Religious Exemption: All states, except Mississippi and West Virginia, permit a religious exemption. However, some states are more strict than others regarding the precise requirements to exempt your children from the vaccines.

Philosophical Exemption (or Conscientious Objection): The following states are the least likely to harass parents who are opposed to vaccines for their children: AZ, CA, CO, ID, IN, LA, ME, MI, MN, NE, ND, OH, OK, UT, VT, WA, WI.

Lawyers, Law Firms, and Other Organizations

This section lists lawyers, law firms, and other organizations dedicated to supporting individuals who a) are being harrassed by vaccination authorities, b) are seeking compensation through the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, or c) are seeking assistance regarding their religious right to avoid vaccinations.

http://www.tetrahedron.org/images/layout/spacer.gifhttp://www.tetrahedron.org/images/solid.gif

http://www.tetrahedron.org/images/news.gif
file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/Dave%20Zacky/My%20Documents/My%20Dreamweaver%20Sites/images/bullet_small.gif Event Headline
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file:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/Dave%20Zacky/My%20Documents/My%20Dreamweaver%20Sites/images/bullet_small.gif Another Event Headline
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http://www.tetrahedron.org/images/layout/hr_dotted.gif

 

[leaner]

kamz:

In our school system, even the Catholic school my kids go to, all immuniztions must be up to date or no going to school, I am not interested in homeschooling and no shots = no school

This is the case in most schools, no shots no school, I am sending my children to a Catholic school and they are telling me, no shots, no school, and this is my parishes school.

I think it is of course a personal choice, I have no desire to homeschool my kids and I’m thrilled to be sending them to an awesome Catholic school where they can learn not only about reading, writing, math but also about their Catholic faith, but the rules are very clear, no shots, no school.

In fact for my state MN this is the case for all schools :yup:

Kamz – here’s the Minnesota info: (from www.vaclib.org)

MINNESOTA - IMMUNIZATION EXEMPTIONS by State (includes current statutes, letters & forms)

IMMUNIZATION EXEMPTIONS by State (includes current statutes, letters & forms)

Minnesota

Current Statutes & Laws: National Vaccine Information Center
Medical, Religious & Philosophical (notarization required on exemption for schools & colleges)

Free or Low-Cost Places to Get Your Conscientious Objection Form Notarized:
health.state.mn.us/divs/idepc/immunize/laws/notary.html

To do this, you may either…

Use the MDH pupil health record form
English: health.state.mn.us/divs/idepc/immunize/140-0155.pdf or
Spanish: health.state.mn.us/divs/idepc/immunize/140-0652.pdf, which has a place for a parent’s/guardian’s signature and the notary’s stamp,

or…

Make your own form stating your conscientious objection to specific immunization(s) and sign it and have it notarized. Like this one… distance.minnesota.edu/programs/nursing/Conscientious.php

Note: The parent/guardian must sign the form in front of the notary

If a notarized statement signed by the minor child’s parent or by the emancipated person is submitted to the person having supervision of the school or child care facility stating that the person has not been immunized as prescribed because of the conscientiously held beliefs of the parent of the minor child or of the emancipated person, the immunizations specified in the statement shall not be required. This statement must also be forwarded to the commissioner of the department of health.

Exemption Letters & Forms…

**Birth Exemptions: **

Sample Vaccine Letters From this website… http://www.vaccines.bizland.com/letters.htm

Most states now require the Hepatitis B vaccine for newborns. Many parents are also cornered by emergency room personnel during accident visits. Hospitals nationally are under pressure to utilize every opportunity to score a “hit.” If your pediatrician understands your views, get him involved with the hospital. As a last resort, protect your right to receive quality care in the following manner. (Usually, you’ll never find anybody in the hospital to sign this simple form):

“I certify that the (Name of Vaccine)________ vaccine being administered to (Name of Child)_________ is free from all known and yet unknown zoonotic or human viruses or viral fragments and will not cause acute or chronic illness in the recipient due to viral contamination or as a reaction to the components of this vaccine. (Signature of Physician and Date)_________.”

If you do get a signature, hold on to the form.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

jess7396:

I think I am right , but I can’t find the original article I read about it in, so here’s info. from a quick google search:
cogforlife.org/fetalvaccinetruth.htm#The_Need_for_Further_Fetal_Tissue
(also taken from the COG site, VERY reliable)

I was intrigued by this, so I did a little research… the link quotes a certain L. Hayflick, in 1997, saying that the search for cell immortality was futile, or something like that.

So I then I found another article written by Dr. Hayflick in 2000, and he reports that in 1998, there was a new discovery that makes it possible to keep cells in culture dividing forever - insofar as we can observe forever in 7 years, but I think meaning far beyond the usual 50 or so cell divisions that “normal” cells can do.

I don’t know if that technique has been applied specifically to the cell cultures used for vaccines, or if it works. But it may no longer be the case that these tissue cultures are running out. That merits further investigation.

 

[leaner]

Bobby Jim:

I was intrigued by this, so I did a little research… the link quotes a certain L. Hayflick, in 1997, saying that the search for cell immortality was futile, or something like that.

So I then I found another article written by Dr. Hayflick in 2000, and he reports that in 1998, there was a new discovery that makes it possible to keep cells in culture dividing forever - insofar as we can observe forever in 7 years, but I think meaning far beyond the usual 50 or so cell divisions that “normal” cells can do.

I don’t know if that technique has been applied specifically to the cell cultures used for vaccines, or if it works. But it may no longer be the case that these tissue cultures are running out. That merits further investigation.

That sure would be nice – esp since my babe got hers yesterday…:crying: – long story, but it wasn’t part of my plan…sneaky tech pulled the “oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that was the one you didn’t want…” – free healthcare has it’s disadvantages…

 

[jess7396]

That does merit further investigation- I don’t think it would change my use of the CP vaccine, b/c I am against it for other reasons as well, but might at some point, make me more comfortable with the use of the Rubella vaccine in my daughter.

I think I’ll write to the good folks at COG for Life. Tomorrow- my little people need me now for bedtime .

 

[kamz]

Well, its a little too late for us anyways, we had all our kids vaccinated already, and as far as the aborted fetus, from what I have read, these were from two babies in the 60’s??

Anyways, again, it is a personal decision that each parent must make, my brother in law is a doctor and he has seen the downside of not getting your kids vaccinated, so many awful stories that would make your heart ache.

It is something for each parent to prayfully consider, it was for us, not even a question, it was just that simple and for anybody else, that is up to you and if you don’t want to, gee, simple, don’t

 

[jess7396]

kamz:

Well, its a little too late for us anyways, we had all our kids vaccinated already, and as far as the aborted fetus, from what I have read, these were from two babies in the 60’s??

Anyways, again, it is a personal decision that each parent must make, my brother in law is a doctor and he has seen the downside of not getting your kids vaccinated, so many awful stories that would make your heart ache.

It is something for each parent to prayfully consider, it was for us, not even a question, it was just that simple and for anybody else, that is up to you and if you don’t want to, gee, simple, don’t

Kamz- I have noticed from my limited time on this forum that you are a really gentle soul (and I mean that as a compliment), you are very careful that people don’t hurt each other’s feelings, make each other feel bad, etc. That is a good quality to have.

I just want to say that, #1- it matters not a bit wether this was done to these babies in the 60s or yesterday- they were killed for the purpose of providing this vaccine- much like what people working on embryonic stem cells are doing today. If they succeed, 40 years from now people will be having the debate we are here “The horrible thing has already been done, people DIE from these diseases, we should just use these treatments”(would THAT be acceptable?)
#2- Did you read my above post about how the CP vaccine does not last forever? So- having your babes vaccinated with this vaccine, guarantees nothing other than short term immunity, leaving them suceptable when the disease is more dangerous- as adults, or- of course, they’ll need another vaccination for it, and another, on and on. Whereas- actually getting CP will give lifetime immunity.
#3-It is very bothersome to me on a Catholic forum for someone to say that this was not an issue for them at all. IMNSHO- it SHOULD be an issue for any faithful Catholic. Yes, after prayerful consideration (esp. in light of the fact that this may not have to be done again), one could choose to use the vaccines. But- IMO- it should be done with sadness and great difficulty. It should not ever be an easy, no- brainer decision to do something like this.

As I said above- it is simple moral relativism to suggest that the severity of a disease would decide the morality of this issue.

kamz- we can disagree here, and we can even try to convince each other. There are certain things that are “we can agree to disagree” and “this is morally neutral, parents can do whatever they wish and we are all great people” etc. IMO- this is not one of those things. I would not say that someone who has examined this issue fully(after prayerful consideration) and with great sadness and has decided to use the vaccines at this point, while fighting the issue and lobbying for a vaccine made in a moral way- would be wrong. I will say that IMO, someone not giving it a second thought and using these vaccines without an issue and doing nothing to ensure it does not happen again, would be in the wrong morally, as a Catholic.

Yes, people can make different decisions ultimately on this issue (in the abscence of an official Church stance), but- I think all should be saddened by this issue and should be doing something to keep this from happening again.

I can’t say it more clearly- some things are morally neutral - this is not one of them.

So- I encourage everyone to go to www.cogforlife.org and see what you can do to help. Educate those around you (how many of us didn’t find out about this until after using these vaccines?). And PRAY PRAY PRAY!

 

[kamz]

Do you know if the Pope has made any comments on this yet?

Has the Catholic church made an official stand yet?

I look to my church to help guide me, I look to my pope to help me make my decisions also.

My husband and I have made all our decision towards vaccines with prayer first, I’m sorry, I did not make that clear, once we prayed about this, we went forward feeling very clear in our choice to have our children vaccinated.

All my decisions with my children are considered with prayer.

Maybe someday I will regret my decisions to have my children vaccinated, so be it, that will be between me and God, but for now, we have already had the shots done and when my 2 yr old is five he will finish his other immunizations and enter our parishes Catholic school.

My husband who is Lutheran also has a say in his children does he not?? He is very clear that even if my mind should change, he wants his children immunized, his mother had polio as a child and was crippled because of it.

Anyways, I can see this is getting touchy, I don’t know any parent who likes to be judged, I know I don’t, when it comes to MY kids, I’m like a mommy Lion and I feel real threatened, when someone hints that maybe I’m not doing whats best, my feelings get Very hurt, when someone thinks they know what is in my heart and my mind or what is in my personal relationship with God, I am very hurt. You can’t know much about someone from a message board, you don’t know their heart. My opinion is we chose to have our children immunized, with prayer first, we did, this works for us, we do not regret it. If YOU don’t want your kids immunized, don’t but please don’t pass your judement onto me.
Have a great day

 

[jess7396]

Kamz- this is what I am talking about- it is great that you are a sensitive person, it helps you to not hurt others. Unfortunately, I can see that it is also blinding you from constructive criticism. If you DID prayerfully consider this, then that is great. Your previous post said:

“It is something for each parent to prayfully consider, it was for us, not even a question, it was just that simple…”

So- first you say that it was not even a question, then you say you prayerfully considered it. My beef is with Catholics who say it was “not even a question” and who seem to have a “live and let live” attitude about too many things. There ARE things that should be questioned and fought against, etc. So- here you are, you have chosen to vaccinate using vaccines derived from aborted fetuses, I hope that it was a prayerful consideration. You want me to know things of you that cannot be known unless you tell us. I can only use what you say here to respond to you.

You say you are hurt whenever anyone suggests that you might be doing something not perfect for your children. First- we ALL do things that are not perfect for our children, your flaws are no different than the rest of ours. However- when you choose to let your hurt feelings over people on a message board disagreeing with you, or questioning you, make you so defensive of what you have done, then I am not sure you are considering what you are doing fully.

I think it is nice to come here (and other boards, and with friends IRL) and discuss things, I might just learn something, I might just have to reconsider what I am currently doing with my spouse, my children, my faith. I don’t come to discuss how “all choices are equal” and to constantly be told I am doing great and have my back patted.

Sure, it is nice when we all agree and it would be great if every one of us was always doing things just perfectly, and never needed correction, but I just don’t see myself that way. I am far from perfect and could use some help in making right decisions.

I am saying to you and others who choose to use these vaccines, that 1- I hope you fully considered the morality of it, and 2- that you will do something about it. (which would include having your children titered at age 5 before using these vaccines again)

As far as your husband and his beliefs on this- well, that would be one tough part about a religiously mixed marriage. Since there is no official Church teaching on this, your agreeing with him seems relatively harmless, however, what if one of your children developed a deadly disease that could be “cured” through the use of embyonic stem cells? At some point you would need to put your foot down, and stand up for the babies,despite the cost to your children and marriage. The health of our children and the state of our marriages are not the ultimate things we must fight for. I know how hard it would be for me if one of my children were to be in a a situation like that, and I were to have to refuse treatment that could save them, but God expects our morality even when it is hardest.

I don’t want to hurt you Kamz, really, but sometimes it is just plain hard to state anything opposing to what you think, without hurting you.

I am sure you are a good mother, maybe you could try (said gently) to look at discussions here and just hear people’s thoughts on issues without taking major offense if someone disagrees with what you have said. I have found great growth when I can hear the opposing side. I can respect parents who choose to use these (in light of the lack of a Church declaration against it), so long as they have fully researched it, have decided to fight against the atrocity that happened (by demanding new vaccines be made, having children titered before using them again, etc). I am not demonizing parents who choose them, only those who seem to take it far too lightly and seem to be doing nothing about the issue.