Chief exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth says Devil is in the Vatican

[janet_baker76]

He says something so very interesting in the book of his I got, his earlier one, An Exorcist Tells His Story, not the one originally referenced in this thread (which appears not to be available, at least yet). He says that priests are reluctant to learn exorcism, reluctant to practice it, when they do something just as confrontational to the devil every time they hear a confession.

He says a lot more about the loss of faith among priests in modern times, in this section. But one must be struck by this insight about the awesome power --the audacity-- of confession, of absolution.

The book referenced can be gotten at Amazon for a mere 10 bucks and it’s so in traditional Catholicism’s camp you’d think it was written by the Archbishop himself.

 

[Adira]

I think it’s important for us to understand what Fr Amorth is saying here.

He’s not saying that the Papacy has failed or that the Church has failed. He’s saying that there are people in positions of power who are being attacked by the devil and some give in and are lead astray. Which I’m sure we can all guess already

He also said the Holy Father supports exorcisms and understands the power of the devil too.

So it’s not Fr Amorth vs the Church… it seems like some of you are implying that. That’s not actually what he is saying. He’s with the Church, but the Church has a human element as well as a divine one and the people in it are being attacked, because it is the true Church of Christ and the devil hates it.

Exactly! We shouldn’t dismiss what he says out of hand, and should NOT view his statements as an attack on the Church as a whole. Who knows what this man has seen?

I think those in the Church hierarchy would be great targets for Satan. As others have stated, Jesus Himself was targeted.

We should pray about what Father Amorth has said and not dismiss him lightly.

I would NOT doubt that some of the clergy who have been shown to be multi-abusers may be in need of Father Amorth’s services. We know therapy doesn’t work for perpetual child abusers who are secular. Why assume it will work for clergy? Why not try exorcism? (I have not heard that it’s even been tried.)

 

[Feathers]

just checked on amazon.co.uk and his books appear to be sold out - evil gremlins messing with the database to prevent new readers or a genuine increase in sales?

Despite what we see of the world through the interweb thingy or news media sources, and despite the Churches appearing more empty than in the the past I think we are becoming more aware of the evil in the world - not the wars and murders and other obvious stuff - but the pernicious creeping stuff and the mockery of Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.

I find it strange that celebrities can plead “sex addiction” as an illness and as long as they haven’t been involved in anything illegal or criminal they can enter a recovery center and get fixed. Ha ha! that’s just the demons going on holidays - they’ll be back, with a vengence.
In the meantime priests afflicted with more malicious demons have become tools to topple the Church. We’re in for a painful time but the truth will out and the Church will overcome

When I first heard of the phrase “smoke in the Vatican” and heard of Fr Amorth admitting that evil walks in the Vatican my thoughts were not so much of black masses - too Hollywood - but of priests undermining the Church - the abusers are obvious, but what of those that dismiss some sins or encourage others.

Misguided or possessed I don’t know but the World is in need of excorcism if the Vatican and hence the Church is infected.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

From the article, Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was “pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me.”

I think he makes the mistake when he says the devil makes fun of him. He’s too proud here. It is most likely a demon manifesting himself as the Devil to Fr. Amorth. I base my opinion after reading two of his books. Not to dimish Fr Amorth’s work, but the Devil runs a risk when appearing in person (as in a spirit as he correctly says). The Devil sends demons to do his dirty work. These demons pretend they are the Devil. Enough said here…

I posted this in another forum and will repost again.

Excorcists can be fooled by the Devil as well. Below I quote 2 leading excorcists on the Medjugorie scam.

Which excorcist is right? One has to be wrong here. Can they both be right? I’ll place by bet with Bishop Gemma. If I’m right, then Fr. Amorth also has been tricked by the Devil. I’ll repeat, IMHO, Fr. Amorth himself has been fooled. He too is under the influence of Satan.

But, I’ll support Fr Amorth’s observation of Satanic groups within the Vatican. The above article says the Fr. Amorth declares to know of the existence of Satanic sects in the Vatican where participation reaches all the way to the College of Cardinals.

A cardinal being a satanist is pretty far-fetched though, possible but unlikely.

If Medjugorie is a work of the devil, then could Cardinal Schonborn be one of those cardinals in a Satanic Group? (His recent visit to Medjugorje raised a big stink) I’m not accusing anybody, just getting you people to think and to keep watch. Remember the Devil is like a lion roaming around for someone to devour.

Click FR. AMORTH
Question to Fr. Amorth:
Is it true that Medjugorje is a “big mouthful” for Satan?
Answer by Fr. Amorth:
Surely. Medjugorje is a fortress against Satan. Satan hates Medjugorje because it is a place of conversion, of prayer, of transformation of life.

Click BISHOP ANDREA GEMMA
Bishop Andrea Gemma also a leading excorcist, 77, once the Vatican’s top exorcist, told a magazine in Italy: 'In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, lodging houses, sale of trinkets. ‘This whole sham is the work of the Devil. It is a scandal.’ He said the Vatican would soon crack down on the group.

Be careful here, Father Amorth is speaking to an audience when doing this, he is not writting a Theological work, it is therefore hard to say that Father Amorth is under influence of the devil to a degree greater then anyone else. Less strict use of spoken language can make it seem like he is being influenced.

Also, Please remember that our Church is the only Doctrinally Complete Church on the planet, that fact that the Church can accurately give both God, Jesus Christ and Satan is a manifestation of this Church’s Completeness. By way of comparison, in the protestant church the devil is largely thought of by their own members as something of a metaphor, as is Hell in the protestant tradition. Not so in Catholicism which is able to manifest every aspect of Christianity, not just some aspects of Christianity.

The reasons Father Amorth’s dialogue seems extraordinary is due to this fact. It seems sensational in some respects if you look at it from a protestant point of view, because the Protestant Church cannot manifest Satan at all for the most part. Hell and Satan are metaphors in the protestant tradition.

Lastly, the Rituale Romanum makes it clear that the devil, in the form of a person, walks the planet, he could be living and walking the forests of vietnam, he could be walking down the street in Berlin, he could be walking down Mainstreet USA. You have to keep your RC Theology in mind when listening to Father Amorth speak.

If the devil is in the Vatican this is not to be listened to in the same manner that you listen to Entertainment Tonight or your evening News. It could be true, but its not sensational media. Do not forget that Satan, the fallen angels, demons, are part of the Roman Catholic Tradition. And your not standing at the Checkout counter looking at SUN, STAR, or some other tabloid.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

Father Amorth is worth listening to and not merely a quack like some others. One of his books has been published by the respected Catholic publisher Ignatius. His opinion on Satanic inflitration of the Church is quite possible given how the Church declined in power and genuine believers since the 60s.

Father Amorth is quite correct, but what exactly is he saying. Firstly, everything not Catholic can be considered to be in some respect Satanic, by definition, after the 60’s
what did we seen in Teen Catholic moreso then in any decade previous, Drugs,Woodstock,Pop culture of all forms, Andy Warhol, all of these things by Definition
are Satanic or exhibit Satanic influence…

So Father Amorth is correct, Satanic Influence…

I like Led Zeppelin as a Catholic, it is still Satanic, by definition…

You think America is worse then Europe but that is not so, according to a recent poll over 80% of France is in a state of Mortal Sin from week to week.

America and Europe are lockstep when it comes to Catholics being in Mortal sin from week to week.

In its most Rigorous Definitional Strictness all persons Not Clergy are by definition exhibiting some Satanic Influence, the Bible Makes no excuse for Man’s fall from Paradise, so even having to enter into the workplace and work as a Fallen person is going to allow a tiny Satanic influence into your life, and that is working even at the Library, if you are in the Mafia working then your Level of Satanic Influence is much greater…

In its purely academic form, Anything not OF GOD is strictly speaking some level of the satanic, But the Bible will hold because Man Fell, hence US having to live with the results and work with them…

Most of the time you don’t even notice it, Cleaning and COoking and Doing Chores isn’t, but the act of interacting with persons as fallen persons must, then you are going to run into the Satanic even if minutely… that is just rigorous definition and doesn’t speak to a persons level of intrinsic righteousness by their conduct as Roman Catholics offsets or nullify’s any Satanic influence…

 

[janet_baker76]

Father Amorth wrote that every baptism and every confession is an exorcism, and every person in a state of mortal sin is possessed.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Father Amorth wrote that every baptism and every confession is an exorcism, and every person in a state of mortal sin is possessed.

Sorry but following that logic, the whole human race is possessed.
You, me, and everybody else.

Furthermore, considering that the only sin that has me in a moral state right now pretty much is the same sin of every young adult my age and above, wouldn’t the demon possessing me at least reflect it? I can’t say how I have lust as a sin but have people see me as an uptight, cantankerous, and lonely guy who’s more likely to get angry and violent than engage in rudely expressing my sexual thoughts; a guy who’s more likely to spend hours playing games that involve blasting the opposition to smithereens or slicing it into ribbons than spending those same hours surfing for every porn vid imaginable.

In short, if I’m possessed, there must be two demons in me then.

 

[janet_baker76]

Yes, I could conclude, from his statements on sin, confession, and baptism, that he believes we all at times suffer from mild possession, and habitual sinners more than a little. This puts the hype about the "Vatican being possessed’ in a different light.

Father does not think devils rare, or their interaction with humans uncommon–he says they work to tempt us, for example. (I’m pretty sure now my refrigerator has one.) And he says we have nothing to fear from them, provided we live pious, prayerful lives, stay in a state of grace and refrain from hanging around with people who don’t (especially blasphemers), and ought to tell devils so regularly. As in, ‘nannie nannie nannie, you can’t hurt me!’ should they indicate their presence.

Frankly, regarding sexual temptation, that one post here, the idea of a leering green guy initiating it sure would put the cold shower on. That’s just me.

You have to get the book! He attributes fights in families, for example, to devilish intervention. (I always knew it! And next time we have a brooha at my house, I’m going for the holy water.)

 

[gmarie21]

So pretty much what Father Amorth says about demons is extremely similar to how C.S. Lewis tried to portray them in Screwtape Letters? Many people enjoy reading Screwtape but fail to see or remember how that same battle exists in their own lives (I must admit to sometimes not paying attention to the same thing in mine).

 

[janet_baker76]

Screwtape Letters! And yet another thing I will have the pleasure of reading or re-reading!! (I too have been mentally re-interpreting things I’ve read, with excitement because of the dimension this gives them).
I have thought the same thing–how you put it (which because I’ve gone to the reply screen I can’t render accurately)–Father’s view on these things has woken me up to the true drama in life, one which an ‘enlightment’ attitude obscures, to the worsening of life.

Who needs drugs??? We have reality!

Honestly, I made a little light of it in an earlier post, and regretted it, because this attitude, I mean taken seriously, might be one of those signature things a thinker keeps looking for in the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism, as a life or a philosophy. There’s something different about thinking about temptation coming from a creature than from, say, inside myself, like from my own flawed spirit. It makes it more of a horse race. It gives me a side to be on. Like I want my own soul to be saved instead of being in the sour position of hating it, resisting it, thinking temptation originates there.

You know how a girl likes to be pretty? It makes you prettier, and the devil can be all the ugly. This is better than Oil of Olay! (There I go again. The devil is making me do it. St. Michael the Archangel…

The secret of plotting fiction might be in this.

One of my novus ordo companions outside the clinic was saying that long ago, in Ireland, they taught that when you commit a mortal sin, the Holy Spirit goes out of you and the devil comes in.

I wonder why we don’t think of angels ‘coming in’? And I wonder why we don’t ‘do things’ for our angels? ( I’m buying my angel a Trek.)

Oh it’s Palm Sunday. I’m on my way, on the El…

*Defend us in the battle. *

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes, I could conclude, from his statements on sin, confession, and baptism, that he believes we all at times suffer from mild possession, and habitual sinners more than a little. This puts the hype about the "Vatican being possessed’ in a different light.

Father does not think devils rare, or their interaction with humans uncommon–he says they work to tempt us, for example. (I’m pretty sure now my refrigerator has one.) And he says we have nothing to fear from them, provided we live pious, prayerful lives, stay in a state of grace and refrain from hanging around with people who don’t (especially blasphemers), and ought to tell devils so regularly. As in, ‘nannie nannie nannie, you can’t hurt me!’ should they indicate their presence.

Erm, no offense but this comes off more as superstitious than religious. I see a fine line between someone just simply doing something wrong and someone being possessed by a sentient, malevolent entity from the underworld.

Yes the devil does tempt but I don’t think he needs to be in anything to simply make a bad suggestion. Heck the most you can say is that he probably just sends it to your head. The way I see it, I think it has less to do with the devil even saying anything and merely just you being unable to control your urges.

Frankly, regarding sexual temptation, that one post here, the idea of a leering green guy initiating it sure would put the cold shower on. That’s just me.

Actually, mine’s more like an imp with a goofy grin, wearing a purple suit and matching top hat. He only bugs me when I’m too sleepy to think of anything. Gimme something that involves blasting something sky high though and I’d just blow him up along with it.

You have to get the book! He attributes fights in families, for example, to devilish intervention. (I always knew it! And next time we have a brooha at my house, I’m going for the holy water.)

…or maybe there’s a serious problem in their relationships? Please be serious here. As a guy who has more than his fair share of butting heads with both his siblings and his parents, such drama is more attributed to people being unable to understand one another. They are caused by people and people alone. Saying that it is born of devilish intervention sounds more like an excuse to not face the actual reasons why people have problems with their family (and others as well).

 

[BenjaminLumen]

Exactly! We shouldn’t dismiss what he says out of hand, and should NOT view his statements as an attack on the Church as a whole. Who knows what this man has seen?

I think those in the Church hierarchy would be great targets for Satan. As others have stated, Jesus Himself was targeted.

We should pray about what Father Amorth has said and not dismiss him lightly.

I would NOT doubt that some of the clergy who have been shown to be multi-abusers may be in need of Father Amorth’s services. We know therapy doesn’t work for perpetual child abusers who are secular. Why assume it will work for clergy? Why not try exorcism? (I have not heard that it’s even been tried.)

Its all Theology, Father Amorth is not wrong, he is speaking correctly, and it is a fact, but its not a sensational type thing, like it may be seen by some, it is a very calm solid observation by a person completely grounded in Theology.

What I can’t help but wonder is, how big a devil the parishioners themselves become when they allow themselves, as I reported earlier, over 80% for French Catholics, allow themselves to stay in Mortal Sin from Week to Week. That is the big issue, If you are performing your office as a Priest and 80-90% of the persons comming to take communion are doing so in a state of Mortal sin, that is a BIG BAD DEAL! The parishioners need to be reminded that the Roman Catholic Church functions Spiritually, in the Spirit exactly as the Doctrine has it, exactly! That is what Many parishioners are exhibiting a Disbelief in that fact that Taking Communion unworthily is damming to the Soul. That is how the Spirit executes the Law, even if it is progressively worse over time. This points to a strong Protestant influence among the populace which disregards all things Catholic, even if their own Theology is innacurate to the degree it does not reflect the Catholic Church.

The Push from Rome, to my way of thinking should be for bringing all persons back into complete Communion with Rome, not going to confession, staying in Mortal sin, are symptoms of a post Vietnam populace, a populace awash in the ill effects of secularization in the general public. Rome should be outwardly pushing for Complete Communion with Rome, staying not completely in communion with Rome is a cheap and easy ticket straight into the Pitt. If France is 80-90% in Mortal Sin from week to week, it is not hard to extrapolate to all of Europe being in the same boat, but may not be the case.

Its this complete disregard for the Office of Confession that is leading this Church to ruin.
In Mass for over a year I was the only person that I ever saw actively attending Confession. I had to, for all I know I was the only sinner present in the whole Church… No one ever went to confession. This is the Crisis in the Church if their is any.

We are all in this Spiritual Fight together, the parishoners are just as responsable for keeping the Devil back off the Priest as much as the Priest themselves. Its like the Parishioners are playing this stupid Game… HAY LETS ALL GO INTO MORTAL SIN AND WATCH OUR PRIEST FIGHT FOR US AGAINST THE DEVIL!! It is stupid and totally irresponsable on the part of Parishioners to remain in Mortal Sin. The Parishioners are robbing themselves of complete communion with Christ himself, they are loosing power from on High in their daily lives because they do not stay in communion, as they distance themselves from Christ by committing Mortal sins they LOOSE THEIR OWN ABILITY TO MANIFEST BOTH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE HOLY GHOST…That is totally irresponsable behavior on the part of Parishioners in this Church.

In Roman Catholicism, even though a Protestant or Secular society may interject a question concerning true presence in the Eucharist, THAT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT THAT A PARISHIONERS HAVE THE LEE-WAY TO ENTERTAIN!! Reject all such arguments and stay in Good standing and Faith with the Catholic Church. By GOING TO CONFESSION EVERY WEEK IF NECESSARY, BUT MOST CERTAINLY GOING TO CONFESSION AS OFTEN AS YOU SIN.

I don’t care if you committ the same sin every week, I DON"T CARE, YOU GO TO CONFESSION FOR IT!! YOU DON’T INTERNALLY RATIONALIZE YOUR ACTIONS AND PLAY THEM OFF, BECAUSE YOUR BRINGING THE DEVIL CLOSER TO YOURSELF WHEN YOU DO THAT. AND YOU MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT TAKE COMMUNION UNWORTHILY!! EVERY MISTEP ON YOUR PART BRINGS A HARDER FIGHT UPON THE PRIEST WHO HAS SWORN HIS LIFE TO YOUR PROTECTION, THAT IS IRRESPONSABLE BEHAVIOR ON THE PART OF CATHOLIC LAYPERSONS.

YOU ARE A PRIEST TO YOUR CHURCH, PRIEST AND LAYPERSON BOTH ARE PRIESTS FOR THE CHURCH WHEN IN FULL COMMUNION WITH THE CHURCH!!
THAT IS STRAIGHT OUT OF THE CATECHISM. UPHOLD THE UN-OFFICIAL HOLY ORDERS THAT YOU DO HOLD, AND LET YOUR BEARING AND CONDUCT AS A CATHOLIC REFLECT THAT YOU DO HOLD AS A LAY-PERSON AN UN-OFFICIAL SET OF HOLY ORDERS. ANYTHING ELSE WILL PRODUCE FOLLY FOR LAYPERSON AND PRIEST ALIKE, AS WE SEE RIGHT NOW OCCURRING, THAT **** IS MORE THEN 8/10ths the Parishioners fault, I gaurentee you.

A Female Catholic Committs a Mortal sin, it insults her sensabilities about herself, and she then refuses to go to confession. “I can’t tell my Priest that…” I have seen this occurr in more then a couple female Roman Catholics, they don’t go to confession…
The husband can’t get the wife to go to confession, he doesn’t know what is wrong, pretty soon the family is slobbed out, unattentive Roman Catholic wise, she sneaks confession in mortal sin, trying to maintain appearances… and its stupid irresponsable behavior on the part of laypeople male or female, given the battle against the powers of darkness the we as Catholics fight…

 

[janet_baker76]

Erm, no offense but this comes off more as superstitious than religious. I see a fine line between someone just simply doing something wrong and someone being possessed by a sentient, malevolent entity from the underworld.

Yes the devil does tempt but I don’t think he needs to be in anything to simply make a bad suggestion. Heck the most you can say is that he probably just sends it to your head. The way I see it, I think it has less to do with the devil even saying anything and merely just you being unable to control your urges.

Actually, mine’s more like an imp with a goofy grin, wearing a purple suit and matching top hat. He only bugs me when I’m too sleepy to think of anything. Gimme something that involves blasting something sky high though and I’d just blow him up along with it.

…or maybe there’s a serious problem in their relationships? Please be serious here. As a guy who has more than his fair share of butting heads with both his siblings and his parents, such drama is more attributed to people being unable to understand one another. They are caused by people and people alone. Saying that it is born of devilish intervention sounds more like an excuse to not face the actual reasons why people have problems with their family (and others as well).

Equally likely explanations. Compulsive cursing was a behavior of some individual where Amorth or the priest he learned from, a Vatican exorcist as well, his superior, I forget his name, called in a famous Rome psychiatrist to work with them. The psychiatrist often collaborated with them on certain cases. Together they determined which kind of treatment was needed, whether for mental illness, or for possession of a real devil, orI think some cases had both. Equally likely explanation. Couldn’t that apply to family fights as well? Some caused by whatever you meant by ‘relationships’ and some by the devil?

What exactly do you think is superstitous?

 

[hawkeye]

I remember reading that Fr Amorth believed in Medjugorje, another Exorcist doesn’t…oh boy ! the devil is laughing up his sleeve at all this.

A real gelling convincing argument, divide and conquer.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

Lost Wanderer;6455949:

Erm, no offense but this comes off more as superstitious than religious. I see a fine line between someone just simply doing something wrong and someone being possessed by a sentient, malevolent entity from the underworld.

Yes the devil does tempt but I don’t think he needs to be in anything to simply make a bad suggestion. Heck the most you can say is that he probably just sends it to your head. The way I see it, I think it has less to do with the devil even saying anything and merely just you being unable to control your urges.

Actually, mine’s more like an imp with a goofy grin, wearing a purple suit and matching top hat. He only bugs me when I’m too sleepy to think of anything

. Gimme something that involves blasting something sky high though and I’d just blow him up along with it.

…or maybe there’s a serious problem in their relationships? Please be serious here. As a guy who has more than his fair share of butting heads with both his siblings and his parents, such drama is more attributed to people being unable to understand one another. They are caused by people and people alone. Saying that it is born of devilish intervention sounds more like an excuse to not face the actual reasons why people have problems with their family (and others as well).Equally

likely explanations. Compulsive cursing was a behavior of some individual where Amorth or the priest he learned from, a Vatican exorcist as well, his superior, I forget his name, called in a famous Rome psychiatrist to work with them. The psychiatrist often collaborated with them on certain cases. Together they determined which kind of treatment was needed, whether for mental illness, or for possession of a real devil, orI think some cases had both. Equally likely explanation. Couldn’t that apply to family fights as well? Some caused by whatever you meant by ‘relationships’ and some by the devil?

What exactly do you think is superstitous?

There are some odd things about people that have to be taken into consideration. Always
attributing happenings to things other then the devil, really does help combat the problem, the devil never gets credit for the malevolence in however minor a form, so people being people is helpful, in that they unwittingly assigning false causes to problem are always somewhat aloof to their actual cause, which is a good thing if your the person. Within certain limits, persons overlooking minor possesion is obviously something that should be dealt with as such. But ALOOF PERSONS , while never battling the devil himself really, do cause the devil termendous grief in some respects, because at the same time they are always upsetting the devils plans by the same aloofness.

 

[janet_baker76]

Waking up this morning to the news that Planned Parenthood had endorsed the move by LCWR leader nuns in their defiance of their bishops and Catholic teaching, while at the same time confirming that our new death bill will finally make it government policy to fund the killing of the unborn, it has finally dawned on me what Father Amorth means when he says the devil is in our Church:

Vatican II is a spell!

The words of the texts that continually repeat the mantra of Freedom Freedom Freedom opened the door to this tragedy! Those are the words that unleashed the pedophiles. Those are the words that emptied our convents. From these words, we embraced ecumenism and abandoned evangelization. “Mankind has reached new levels of consciousness,” Gaudium et Spes trumpets. “I cannot come between a woman and her conscience,” Nancy Pelosi repeats on Meet the Press. “Vatican II says so.” And it does! Vatican II made Freedom of Conscience trump Church teaching from all time!

Yves Congor and Teilhard de Chardin and Louis Lavelle and Karl Rahner. Clumps of braided hair and blood clots buried deep in our Faith. The hermaneutics of witchcraft.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The words of the texts that continually repeat the mantra of Freedom Freedom Freedom opened the door to this tragedy! Those are the words that unleashed the pedophiles. Those are the words that emptied our convents. From these words, we embraced ecumenism and abandoned evangelization. “Mankind has reached new levels of consciousness,” Gaudium et Spes trumpets. “I cannot come between a woman and her conscience,” Nancy Pelosi repeats on Meet the Press. “Vatican II says so.” And it does! Vatican II made Freedom of Conscience trump Church teaching from all time!

How is ecumenism bad? From what I know of the “traditional” form of evangelizing, it’s what causes Jack Chick to be a failure in spreading Christianity and a success in marginalizing it from the rest of a society that is unfriendly enough towards religious zeal as it is.

And what is wrong with “empty convents”? We can’t force people into vocations and I doubt that there are that many being called to a religious life in the first place. You do realize that the more people that are in the convent and in the seminary, the less chances of the human race surviving right? We’re not amoebas you know.

 

[Southparkmom]

So the Devil (Heaven’s biggest loser) is infiltrating the Church…we all know it deep inside…but now, WHAT DO WE DO??? My kids are going to hear this negative stuff about their Religion, the one true religion with ties right back to Jesus.

How do we keep the children motivated to keep the faith? It’s hard enough without these scandals. It seems pretty obvious that the media is jumping on the band wagon hard and heavy per usual.

 

[janet_baker76]

So the Devil (Heaven’s biggest loser) is infiltrating the Church…we all know it deep inside…but now, WHAT DO WE DO??? My kids are going to hear this negative stuff about their Religion, the one true religion with ties right back to Jesus.

How do we keep the children motivated to keep the faith? It’s hard enough without these scandals. It seems pretty obvious that the media is jumping on the band wagon hard and heavy per usual.

Oh dear heart! I know! I am struggling too, I have three adult sons, they are being bombarded from all sides, and the temptations are so great–to not have children, to divorce, to live dissolute lives, and at bottom, to give up belief in God. I cry every day, I tell God please, I don’t want to go to heaven without them, please help us! But the fault is not with God.

To save our kids, our Church has to re-connect with tradition, with the saints of the past, with the ethos of the past, not with the modern world. Vatican II should have told the modern world off, not aligned ourselves with it. My kids have to hear that marriage is a vocation that includes children, that an alternative is religious life, that the Faith is the only safe and sure way to heaven (the Council does not teach that, you know, it emphasizess that there’s this nice little bit of Truth in all religions, and ignores the essential nature of the sacraments as helpers, which leaves the barn door open for absolutely everything, as we have now seen and reaped the whirlwind therefrom). Somebody else besides Mom has to tell them there’s a right and a wrong. It will be excrutiatingly hard when the whole world and most elements within the Church itself are teaching the opposite.

The only thing that will save us is the Truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. There is no other way to the Father except through Him. He told us to spread the Word. Vatican II teaches us to make nice. The gulf of hell lies between.

 

[John_Pascendi]

well,as I recall Jesus had a demon in his own 'cabinet" a creature called Judas!!! If the greatest teacher of all time could not convince all of His apostles about the true meaning of His mission ,who are we to not believe satan is alive and well and working within???Pas