Childless Couples in Parish Life

[Pug]

My wife of 11 years and I are unable to have children; she developed premature ovarian failure. We have also discerned that adoption is not for us for various reasons that I prefer not to divulge here…[snip]

What can/should we do? Are there any resources for couples like us?

I can relate, and also I can’t. We are childless and didn’t adopt, but I don’t look to my parish for social opportunities. I would be sorely disappointed if I did, so perhaps that is why I don’t. Our parish is not geared towards it. Nevertheless, if you are a person with some free time, it is really easy to meet people in a parish. Take up some aspect of service and you’ll meet people. Granted, they are likely to be older than you or to have children. The people I know with time are empty nesters, single, etc. I don’t know of another couple like us at our parish, now that I think on it. Wow. Perhaps this is related to me hanging out here? I’ve noticed lots of people like me here over the last few years…

It doesn’t have to be service. We had a gathering after mass the other day for people who had participated in our six week study groups. I, of course, hadn’t gone to the study groups, but I (we) crashed the gathering anyway. We met a nice couple and talked about the Lord of the Rings. If I had been of a mind, I could have made something of it.

BRIDGE at a Parish? (mom2boyz)

Oooooh! Cool. I have only played with secular folk. I wonder if the parish folk still table talk?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

The Church is run by a lot of single people. They are known as bishops. The head guy is single. His name is His Holiness, Benedict XVI.

Now, on the parish level…

…Our parish would not function if it were not for single people and couples without children. They do a lot of the grunt work those with children have no time to spare. They serve on everything from Finance Committee to Schola to Evangelization to Liturgy to “Environment” (Decorating the church and grounds), grounds and building (maintenance). They run booths are parish fesitvals and fund-raisers. They are ushers. They run youth group! They act as liaisons to the deanery and diocese.

And get out of the way of the Cleaning Committee!!! They are all over 50, some over 70, many of them are widowed (guys and gals); and when they clean, whoever and whatever is in their path gets cleaned, too!

Before we re-treaded as parents (we are raising our granddaughters), we also had the opportunity to go to daily Mass every morning, and pray for our parish. It sounds remarkably simple, but it might be the very thing your parish needs. A side benefit of this: The “pray-ers” often meet for coffee and perhaps a wee bit of breakfast after Mass at a local cafe or fast food place.

 

[cecilia97]

I guess I don’t understand. I have yet to see any group at my parish limit themselves only to individuals that are married or who have children. We have Bible study and prayer groups, faith enrichment classes, parished based retreats, Knights of Columbus, groups that provide for the homeless and elderly, even a social group for those in their 20’s & 30’s. All of these groups are open to people who are married or single, have kids or don’t have kids. From what I am reading here it seems more like you want to have groups that would exclude those who are married or those who have children, or do I have it all wrong?

Your parish is very lucky to have a social group for people in their 20s and 30s. I have rarely seen that, and often it turns into a “young adults” group. At my age I don’t consider mysef a “young adult”. Here’s the rub for many people…a single person in her 30s or a married person in her 30s with no children has very little in common with a 20-yr-old or even a 26-yr-old. She also has very little in common with a mother of 3. Single people are often lumped in with the young adults, but there are single people of every age group in every parish.

Yes, you can volunteer in the soup kitchen, go to the prayer group, but people like to be with people they have common things to talk about. That’s the icing on top that is missing in many parishes.

I think there’s a special sensitivity involved when you’re married and can’t have children (at least what I saw from my friend). People will ALWAYS ask you when you’re going to start having kids, and some can be even be cruel with comments about how you’re not really fufilled until you have kids, you’ve never loved someone until you look into your newborn’s eyes, etc…they may not know they’re doing this, or it’s done under the guise of being proud of their own families.

What is wrong with exclusivity? KofC is for men. Women’s prayer groups are for women. The parish school is exclusively used by students and parents. A social place, connected with the parish, where talk does not turn to diapers or tuition or time-out techniques is what I hear this thread asking for.

And yes, no one is stopping us from starting these groups ourselves, but I think parishes have very few ACTIVE people in our life situations and it’s hard to get a large enough group together. Maybe they’re not active because they did not feel welcome and they gave up, like my now-Methodist friend. I don’t know.

 

[jschwehm]

Hi:

My wife and I are unable to have children and unable to adopt. We have lots of social opportunities at our parish. We teach CCD and my priest and I started teaching adult faith formation classes twice a year on Sunday mornings. Plus my wife and I started an apostolate that reaches out to the Jehovah’s Witnesses as we are both converts to the Church from the JWs.

While not having children is a very painful thing for us , my Catholic friends at our parish point out that my wife and I have many spiritual children in the parish and in the world…(that comment is really funny coming from some of the 60 year old plus crowd who tell us we have taught them more about their Catholic faith in the three years we have been at the parish than they learned when they were in Catholic school.)

I guess what I am trying to say is…find out what your gifts are…volunteer to give those gifts back to God and the Lord will give you the social opportunities you really need as you grow in your faith.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com

 

[mom2boyz]

Yes there is table talk. Sometimes it is the best place to learn what is really going on in the parish.

 

[Philena]

Hey - at least you have each other.

I’m a divorced woman in her 40’s, working full time to support my kids, and there is nothing and no one for me at my parish.

 

[Cygnus_X1]

Lots of good feedback, all of which I appreciate.

I guess there really isn’t a delineation between volunteering and socializing; I’ve been trying to put them in separate boxes. I know volunteering is a good thing. I just don’t have a schedule (more accurately, I have a non-schedule) conducive to committing to anything. The only thing I know for sure is that I work Sunday mornings. I don’t even know when I’m working next week!

Not sure whether my parish has a VdP society.

Some of you voiced how I felt about the Knights; I was a bucket under a bull. Those who thrive in the Knights? More power to ya.

My Archdiocese is one of the strictest in the nation about volunteering with children, and I refuse to do so because it’s too draconian in its restrictions, even for something as innocent as lectoring. I was thisclose to leaving the Church over it. But that’s another topic.

I believe most of you missed the point about us being childless. I’ll say it again: The mindset is almost as if it’s impossible to be a married Catholic couple and not have children. It’s a tough one to avoid.

Organizing a group of childless couples is a good idea, but since I have no fixed work schedule, that’ll have to wait.

The bottom line is that I’m facing a dilemma. I want to get more involved in my parish, but I’m simply unable to do so. And as long as that’s the case, children or no, I’ll still feel like I’m visiting.

 

[maria29]

Lots of good feedback, all of which I appreciate.

I guess there really isn’t a delineation between volunteering and socializing; I’ve been trying to put them in separate boxes. I know volunteering is a good thing. I just don’t have a schedule (more accurately, I have a non-schedule) conducive to committing to anything. The only thing I know for sure is that I work Sunday mornings. I don’t even know when I’m working next week!

Not sure whether my parish has a VdP society.

Some of you voiced how I felt about the Knights; I was a bucket under a bull. Those who thrive in the Knights? More power to ya.

My Archdiocese is one of the strictest in the nation about volunteering with children, and I refuse to do so because it’s too draconian in its restrictions, even for something as innocent as lectoring. I was thisclose to leaving the Church over it. But that’s another topic.

**]THese rules are in place to protect them from lawsuits. **

I believe most of you missed the point about us being childless. I’ll say it again: The mindset is almost as if it’s impossible to be a married Catholic couple and not have children. It’s a tough one to avoid.

**Have people said this to you or are you just feeling that way from vibes when you talk to people. Maybe if you got to know some of the parishioners better it wouldn’t seem this way to you?

Have you tried getting together with people who have older children such as high school…I still wouldn’t rule out getting together with people who do have young children because those parents could always get a babysitter. i know my husband and i try to talk very little about our son when we are with our friends who don’t have kids. In fact its so nice to have intelligent conversations that most of the time we end up talking about other things .**

Organizing a group of childless couples is a good idea, but since I have no fixed work schedule, that’ll have to wait.

The bottom line is that I’m facing a dilemma. I want to get more involved in my parish, but I’m simply unable to do so. And as long as that’s the case, children or no, I’ll still feel like I’m visiting.

 

[Damascus]

Hey - at least you have each other.

I’m a divorced woman in her 40’s, working full time to support my kids, and there is nothing and no one for me at my parish.

You are in my thoughts sister.

 

[Pug]

I believe most of you missed the point about us being childless. I’ll say it again: The mindset is almost as if it’s impossible to be a married Catholic couple and not have children. It’s a tough one to avoid.

Yes, some people are thoughtless about infertility. They don’t realize how much grief their questions can stir up. I haven’t found it to be a large problem, though. The most likely thing is for people to fail to realize I’m married, probably because they know I’ve never had kids. Sometimes I’ve felt rather sour when people 10 years younger than me (married with kids) have treated me as younger than them or in some other social sphere. I don’t feel this way anymore. Perhaps I got over it that day when a colleague at work assumed that my husband was my son. :bigyikes:

Children are a blessing, so people will notice that you don’t have them. Is a particular interaction that you had concerning your lack of children troubling you?

 

[Cygnus_X1]

Good question.

One couple we knew before we joined the parish have nine children, and have plans to at least adopt a tenth. They’re great people, but I feel like because their time is so required of them by their kids, I’m imposing on them. I could be wrong, of course.

I got to thinking about this whole topic a little more since my last post. I recalled our previous parish, one of only about 400 families. There, I was involved, and knew a lot of people . . . and it didn’t matter whether they had kids or not.

Our current parish is at least five times larger, and I now realize this is more the norm than the exception. I cite it as an explanation rather than an excuse. While I miss the intimacy of our prior parish, there’s no reason why I couldn’t make things work at the current one.

I used to lector and cantor, but I was barred from doing so nearly three years ago after I refused to sign this document, and I still refuse today. I object to this line:

I waive any right that I may have to inspect any information provided about me in connection with this application.

That’s something I didn’t have to do for a security clearance, so why should I consent to do so here? I’m not going to give His Eminence that much power over me. I know it’s to prevent suits and the like, but the Archdiocese is putting out a match with a fire extinguisher. And I didn’t even have contact with children anyway.

Yes, I’m still bitter about it. And as I said, I nearly left the Church over it.

 

[Meggie]

You should start Couples For Christ…google it, or ask DHgray…its a ministry started in the phillipines for all of Catholics in the church, including adults.

 

[cecilia97]

I used to lector and cantor, but I was barred from doing so nearly three years ago after I refused to sign this document, and I still refuse today. I object to this line:

I waive any right that I may have to inspect any information provided about me in connection with this application.

Yes, I’m still bitter about it. And as I said, I nearly left the Church over it.

I would not want to sign that either! But the first thing you learn in business law is that waivers generally mean diddly-squat. i.e…those indemnity waivers kids bring home before school field trips are only there to make parents think they can’t sue, they don’t mean you can’t sue. I’d wonder if this is the same sort of deal. But the idea that someone could make an accusation about you and yu have no right to read it? Ugh.

Sorry to go off topic.
cecilia

 

[Pug]

I waive any right that I may have to inspect any information provided about me in connection with this application.

I understand your concern about the volunteer application. I could easily balk at that. In general, I detest being asked to voluntarily waive my legal rights. Perhaps they have that there so that people will feel free to say whatever they like about you in the reference letters. But I’ve been a personal witness to secret accusations (say, in a reference letter) wreaking havoc. I believe there must be some accountability in such situations. Perhaps the line is not legally enforceable?

Anyway, that doesn’t matter. You are very cut off from parish life if you are in a position where they will not accept you as a volunteer. I am glad to not be in your shoes. A large chunk of my life consists in what I do to volunteer at the parish, and so far they have only asked me to sign papers saying that I’ve read and will comply with procedure. I’m not sure if social events will salve your sense of alienation.

My only note about the family with 9 kids is to comment that big families seem to have a different sense to them than families with 3 kids. You could be picking up on this, especially if you aren’t accustomed to them. It is not a lack of acceptance in the general case.

 

[dulcissima]

Let’s say you sign this agreement, they actually do go asking around about you and do more than the usual fingerprint check (which is doubtful considering their limited resources), and let’s say the unthinkable happens and someone says some not so nice things about you…what would be the worst that would happen? You wouldn’t get to participate as a lector or a cantor. How is that any different than where you are now?

 

[Cygnus_X1]

A very legitimate question, Dulcissima (like the name!).

If I were to do that, I would no longer be standing on principle. As much as it hurts not to serve, I’d rather not serve and stay true to myself than give in and lose my integrity.

I doubt anyone at the Archdiocesan offices is losing sleep over my stance, but . . .

 

[YADA]

I think you mis understand the reason for the clause. If you want real information on a persons background, you provide for that protection.

If you were a parent, and you had children under the care of various volunteers, you would want the church to obtain clear and complete information about a person’s character and reputation. Look at the cost both financially and spiritually we suffered because of the abuse scandals. That was a case where people were transfered but did not want to speak frankly. And this type of reticense [sp] is not isloated to the Catholic Church or Bishops. Scout leaers, coaches, youth leaders, ministers, bus drivers, doctors and very often teachers have been allowed to work with children when references were afraid or reluctant to share their real concerns about the person being inquired about.

You may be upset ‘IF’ someone ‘MIGHT’ say something you feel is derrogatory towwards your character. Far better for you to be discomforted than for a molester to obtain access to a child for lack of an accurate reference.

As a child who was molested by our land lord, I can tell you that I was not his first victim, his only victim and maybe not his last. This person was allowed to obtain access to chidren because those who could have said something failed to act.

I, for one, fail to feel your angst. I have gladly submitted to backgound checks, signed the consent forms and hope they do complete background checks on me and every volunteer. My chilldren are grown but my grandchildren have piano teachers parochial school teachers, priests, catechists, coaches etc. I want them protected.

 

[dulcissima]

I don’t think it is a totally arbitrary requirement. All of our parishes are having to deal with a lot more red tape and I’m sure they gladly put up with it to prevent any children from being victimized. I know that my parish here provided childcare for those taking a Bible study class and had to have two babysitters even though there were frequently just one or two children, just to meet the new ultra-strict guidelines. The parish absorbed this cost and did not complain.

I know you might feel uncomfortable if you give in to your cherished principle, but a little humility is good for a soul, don’t you think?

Besides, I think your parish could use another cantor that is a man.

 

[Cygnus_X1]

Yada, I’m very sorry you had to endure that.

But it wasn’t a lector or cantor who did that to you. Why must the Church atone for the sins of the guilty (the priests and those who covered for them) by punishing the innocent (those like me who had no contact with children to begin with, and are not seeking such contact)?

Please tell me how children are threatened by a lector, a cantor, or a choir member, any more than anyone else in the pews.

If I WERE seeking to work with children, I could understand the need for the strictness and the surrendering of the right to face one’s accuser. But? I’m not. And don’t you think someone who is out to molest children would think nothing of bluffing his way through the whole application process? (Apply to volunteer . . . it’s come to this )

And Dulcissima, I don’t think humility comes into play here. I’d rather STAND (pun!) for something than fall for anything.

 

[wisdom_3_5]

Does you Church have an Elizabeth Ministry? Most of the time it is for pregnancies etc, but they do list support for infertility.

I joined to give support to those going through infertility (and adoptions since we adopted twice). I can understand why you would like to be with other childless couples though, get a group of women together and the conversation always seems to come around to pregnancy & childbirth. Even though I have children its a topic that reminds me I don’t quite fit in.

Just from reading your posts it seems to me that your schedule makes it difficult to be involved. Most groups meet on the same night every week. I suppose you could join a group and when your schedule fits it fits. We don’t see some of our choir members for weeks and it works out.

Its nice to have friends and they tend to come in and go out of our lives (we live in a university town and most people are just passing through). Cling to your spouse now, pray for friendships. God will give them to you, He knows what we need, just ask Him.