children out of wedlock

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samjustyan:
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Originally Posted by TeachCatechism

Those of you who say not to judge, how far do you take it? Yes I do judge someone with multiple babies by different people out of wedlock and yes these people are sinners and not someone I would associate with. However a couple who is together and had a baby out of wedlock is a couple I would encourage to attend church and marry. Someone with multiple baby mamas/baby daddies is likely not someone who attends church and is likely unable to redeem themselves. Instead we need to pay for their souls because they are immoral.

I myself is unmarried and have 3 kids. But if my partner and I will get married, he will be put to prison because of bigamy. In other words, he’s married. In our country, there’s no divorce, only annulment and that is only for those who can afford it. He’s separated when we met so I’m not the cause why his marriage was broken. Am I going to be condemn because of the situation I’m in?

My first son was baptized as Catholic because the priests here allows first borns to be baptized. My 2nd child was denied 5 TIMES and I’m afraid my 3rd child would also be denied. But I will have to ask the priests again if the would already allow it after what Pope Benedict 16th said about baptism of children of unwed mothers. I hope they will.

We were devoted Catholics, I sent my son to a Catholic school. We hear mass every sunday, joined the 9 days Novena and the daily Block Rosary on October, go to mass on Mama Mary’s birthday, and special days like that. Honestly, I lost my faith after my 2nd child was denied, I seldom join church activities unless my partner forces me to come. He’s faith stayed strong though. But I’m hopeful that all my children will be baptized as Catholics after Pope Benedict 16th message. Because I believe that a family with the same faith will stay strong. I’ve seen how my aunt and my cousin argue about their faith since the other one is non-catholic and that’s not good.

So, are you going to judge me because I’m not married?
I guess many are. There is an out. You can hire a doctor to make forensic diagnosis and testi-lie about some pre exisiting condition and go for the annulment. Like most aside from Kris Aquino have done, especially when they meet a foriengner and have to pass through another nation’s immigration officials. If the legal wife has not gone after you two for adultary and concubinage she is unlikely to fight the annulment.

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Fine but they need to understand the Catholic religion as well.
Actually based on your post it seems that the protestant has a better grasp of the Christian ideals of showing love to all sinners (really, you go so far as to refuse to associate with people who have multiple children out of wedlock?) and of the principal that anyone can repent. I actually think that most Christian groups, catholics included, look down on the idea of writing people off as permanent, unrepentant, unchanging sinners.

As for the non Catholics on this site, why don’t you let the mods worry about that?
 
Fine but they need to understand the Catholic religion as well.
I think I do. And I don’t approve of extramarital sex, by the way, nor do I have illegitimate children–but this does not mean that I am not a sinful person, nor does it permit me to feel superior to those who do have children out of wedlock. Jesus came for sinners, not the righteous, and he can change any heart.
 
Actually based on your post it seems that the protestant has a better grasp of the Christian ideals of showing love to all sinners (really, you go so far as to refuse to associate with people who have multiple children out of wedlock?) and of the principal that anyone can repent. I actually think that most Christian groups, catholics included, look down on the idea of writing people off as permanent, unrepentant, unchanging sinners.

As for the non Catholics on this site, why don’t you let the mods worry about that?
Oh look an atheist trying to tell me how Christians should be. Yes I do judge people who have multiple babies by different people and nope I wouldn’t associate with them as long as they are living a sinful life.
 
Oh look an atheist trying to tell me how Christians should be. Yes I do judge people who have multiple babies by different people and nope I wouldn’t associate with them as long as they are living a sinful life.
Funny. Do you associate with people who have multiple sex partners before they are married? They are just as guilty of fornication as those with out of wedlock children, they just aren’t raising the evidence of such indiscretions. My guess is that you do associate with those people, unless you never leave the house. The sin is not in having the children, it’s in the sex. And the majority of people in our society have had premarital sex.

As far as being an atheist goes, I am the product of a protestant mom and a catholic father. I have also married into the most devoutly catholic family I have ever met. (My SIL is cloistered). But more to the point I have the ability to listen, read, and understand basic concepts, even if I don’t share a belief in them. An attitude adjustment not only towards me but towards all non catholics and “sinners” seems long overdue on your part.
 
Oh look an atheist trying to tell me how Christians should be. Yes I do judge people who have multiple babies by different people and nope I wouldn’t associate with them as long as they are living a sinful life.
In all seriousness, do you associate with anyone? I had a baby out of wedlock. I am divorced. It has been a long, painful road to get from day one to today. but thankfully, I have a personal relationship with God, and I am on a journey to become Catholic because I know it is the right path for me. But I know better than to say that I am now not living a sinful life. Does anyone?
 
Associating with sinners, by the way, is different from endorsing their sin.
 
Oh look an atheist trying to tell me how Christians should be. Yes I do judge people who have multiple babies by different people and nope I wouldn’t associate with them as long as they are living a sinful life.
Goodness. Are you familiar with Mark 7:14-23? Christ told sinners to go and sin no more, but He also sat with them, ate with them, spent time with them. He did so not to condone their sins, but to show them how much He loved them. After all, that’s why He came: because He loves us, and wants us to come to Him.

My husband and I have many friends who have lived together before marriage or are currently doing so. Do we think that what they are doing is right? No, certainly not. Likewise, I, who spent my academic career in the music world, have a number of gay friends, some of whom are living that lifestyle. Again, do I think that that is the right thing to do? No.

The goal of a Christian’s life, however, should be to bring himself or herself to Christ, and as many with him or her as possible. One does this through reflecting to the best of one’s ability the love that Christ has for us to those around us. Now, we could be nasty to these couples, or shun them. The Pharisees did that to the prostitutes and tax collectors. I fail to see what that would accomplish, though, except to land me in the confessional to yet again accuse myself of actions against charity.

We prefer to invite them to dinner, to listen when they’ve had a rough day, to bring over a pot of soup when they’ve been ill. Why? Because they might be sinners, but so are we. If Christ loved us so much that He suffered and died for us–all of us, from the greatest saints to the most terrible sinners–what can we do except try to emulate His actions?

Please note that being a person’s friend does not mean that one approves of everything that that person does. Sure, my husband and I didn’t live together or have sex before we were married, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t sinners! It just means that we didn’t commit that particular set. I doubt that if asked, our friends would “approve” of our pet sins: laziness, or lack of kindness, or sarcasm, or gossip. Friendship means that we try to see the person as Christ sees them: as a child of God (as we all are) who ought to be cherished. If they asked directly, we’d explain why we believe what we believe about marriage and God and so forth, but we believe that actions speak much louder than words, so we try to live our marriage and life in a way that shows what we believe. God also believes that actions speak louder than words. See Matthew 25:31-46, and note that Christ said nothing whatsoever about the righteous person inquiring about a person’s living arrangements, number of illegitimate children, or general sinfulness. Instead, he simply saw a need (“I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; etc, etc”) and filled it, showing that person the love that should be shown to every person, and thereby, perhaps–who knows?–opening that person’s heart to the love that Christ has for us.

Look at the saints, and you will find in every instance a person who loved all those around him or her without confirming sin. Mother Teresa didn’t ask if a woman dying of AIDS was a prostitute or a married woman whose philandering husband had infected her; she simply took the woman in, fed her, bathed her, and listened to her. Father Damian of Molokai didn’t ask a leper if he’d had illegitimate children before bathing his wounds and giving him medical care. Even if the woman was a prostitute, or the man the sort of person who’d had a dozen illegitimate children for whom he’d never taken any responsibility, they were still children of God, children who might have needed to be brought back to God. Showing them kindness didn’t mean that Mother Teresa thought that prostitution wasn’t wrong, or that Father Damian thought that sleeping with many women and discarding one’s children like so many bits of garbage was right. It meant that both saints recognized those people as children of God, and acted upon that, and showed them the way to God, which is, after all is said and done, love. As our beloved Pope Benedict said, Deus Caritas Est: God is loving-charity!

(“Charity” as mentioned throughout this post is meant to describe the traditional attribute of love and concern for one’s neighbor, not the rather unpleasant American connotation it has developed in the last century or two of being something grudgingly given to an “inferior” person to show how “superior” another person is.)
 
In all seriousness, do you associate with anyone? I had a baby out of wedlock. I am divorced. It has been a long, painful road to get from day one to today. but thankfully, I have a personal relationship with God, and I am on a journey to become Catholic because I know it is the right path for me. But I know better than to say that I am now not living a sinful life. Does anyone?
As my father used to say, the last guy who was perfect got crucified for His efforts. 😉

(He didn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to become saints, you understand; he meant that none of us is perfect. Sin is wrong–that’s why they call it, well, sin–but we’re all sinners. Part of the human condition, and all that.)
 
As my father used to say, the last guy who was perfect got crucified for His efforts. 😉

(He didn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to become saints, you understand; he meant that none of us is perfect. Sin is wrong–that’s why they call it, well, sin–but we’re all sinners. Part of the human condition, and all that.)
My grandma used to say the same thing!
 
Actually based on your post it seems that the protestant has a better grasp of the Christian ideals of showing love to all sinners (really, you go so far as to refuse to associate with people who have multiple children out of wedlock?) and of the principal that anyone can repent. I actually think that most Christian groups, catholics included, look down on the idea of writing people off as permanent, unrepentant, unchanging sinners.

As for the non Catholics on this site, why don’t you let the mods worry about that?
BEL, you have, as Jeeves would say, put your finger on the nub of the thing.

Y’know, one of these days our Catholicism is going to rub off on you, and we’ll be able to claim another clear-headed, logical person in our ranks. 😉

ETA: I didn’t see your post just previous to this. Clearly, great minds thought alike. 😃
 
Yes because not only are you sinning by premarital sex but also due to adultery. Adultery is one of the 10 Commandments and apparently you aren’t a good Catholic by breaking that vow.
“Let the one without sin be the first to throw a stone.”
 
Funny. Do you associate with people who have multiple sex partners before they are married? They are just as guilty of fornication as those with out of wedlock children, they just aren’t raising the evidence of such indiscretions. My guess is that you do associate with those people, unless you never leave the house. The sin is not in having the children, it’s in the sex. And the majority of people in our society have had premarital sex.

As far as being an atheist goes, I am the product of a protestant mom and a catholic father. I have also married into the most devoutly catholic family I have ever met. (My SIL is cloistered). But more to the point I have the ability to listen, read, and understand basic concepts, even if I don’t share a belief in them. An attitude adjustment not only towards me but towards all non catholics and “sinners” seems long overdue on your part.
This is a Catholic site and I don’t ask people if they had sex but I know if they had multiple babies out of wedlock.
 
This is a Catholic site and I don’t ask people if they had sex but I know if they had multiple babies out of wedlock.
Interesting. You know that attitude is a major contributor to abortions, particularly in very conservative and religious areas, right? There’s no shame in having premarital sex as long as you don’t get caught. If you get caught (pregnant) and try to raise the baby you’ll be looked down on, so the best thing to do is flush the evidence, right?
 
I guess many are. There is an out. You can hire a doctor to make forensic diagnosis and testi-lie about some pre exisiting condition and go for the annulment. Like most aside from Kris Aquino have done, especially when they meet a foriengner and have to pass through another nation’s immigration officials. If the legal wife has not gone after you two for adultary and concubinage she is unlikely to fight the annulment.

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He and his wife are friends and she has a new partner also, but nonetheless, we still wont be able to get married. Instead of spending so much time and money for annulment, we want to spend it for the children’s future and we’re happy of what we have now. We love each other and that’s important and I believe we’re as happy as some of those married couples:)
 
No the right thing is not to have sex at all.
So you accept that most people do it, but you treat the few who get pregnant as extra bad sinners, despite the teaching of your church that children are a blessing and that sinners need love and support. If that’s an ok attitude then why does the catholic church try to provide support for single pregnant women?

Furthermore you have no idea if a single parent has repented or not.

Frankly I think that this is an issue you should discuss with your priest. If he’s anything like the ones I’ve known he’ll have a lot of thoughts on the matter.
 
You really don’t have a logical, moral, or theological leg to stand on. In saying that you can’t associate with people in a state of mortal sin you are judging the state of another’s soul, behaving uncharitbly and you are a hypocrite unless you are also cutting out catholics who are too lazy to go to mass one Sunday until they confess.
 
So things I can not figure out as a catholic, one of which is children out of wed lock, or couples that live together and have a child out of marriage…

from what I gather it is either considered immoral or some type of sin to live as a couple not married with in the church then more over to add salt to an open wound, we in the faith are fighting against abortion yet in the same instance have this bitter sweet reaction to couples in the faith who have a child together, it is a blessing and yet a problem at the same time, how can one respond to such a thing ? Life is precious but there is undertone of, it is precious but the mother or couple will be shunned , scolded, or called a sinner if they do so out of wedlock and are practicing the faith.

How are we as Catholics supposed to defend and support and not condemn those single mothers who were not married, or couples who have a child before marriage ?

It seems to be a make or break moment for those with weak to little faith , or for families who want to bring their loved ones into the faith, yet from what I can understand not having fully read any rules on anything it is a major problem and or a sin… so it is a matter of walking on egg shells, and relying on faith and prayer that God moves in a way that does not separate us from our loved ones and does not push them away from the faith and us…

any thoughts or references would be appreciated.
Now back to jediknight original question. For people like me, and also as a Catholic, we only want acceptance and understanding. It’s not our fault to fall in love with a man who’s been married. And for those men and women who’s not lucky to have a good marriage. Don’t they deserve to love and be loved again? Especially for those who are battered wives/husbands who lives in a country without divorce and highly expensive annulment. When they find love again and have children, they should not be judged or condemned. And their children should also not be denied of baptism since it’s not their fault that their parents were not married. And it’s not the couples fault they had bad marriages. Honestly,when my 2nd child was denied, it was a break for me.

After reading the thread here, I wouldn’t wonder why so many Catholics change religions because of people like TeachCatechism.
 
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