Children, Religion, & Atheism

[restenergy]

Hello there. First of all, I am an atheist (self-proclaimed although human & therefore occasionally doubtful).

I was born & raised Catholic; my birth parents went specifically out of their way to make certain that I would be adopted & raised Catholic. I was Catholic until I was about 16. I went through a very rough time & I witnessed some very terrible things caused by “devout Catholics” & was completely turned off against the Catholic church, & eventually against the idea of God.

My fiancé & I are getting married in January. He’s a Catholic & although he’s not extremely religious, he believes & was a bit touchy against my beliefs for awhile (I was Catholic & strongly believing when I met him). He wanted to get married in the Catholic church, but due to us moving in together & moving our wedding date up a year, we couldn’t go through with the process in four months.

One of the biggest concerns we have right now is raising children. As children, we both attended mass regularly with our parents, & I have to admit it was comforting to me to have something whole & united like that community growing up, & I really did believe strongly in God & Jesus when I was younger. That belief helped me through my grandparents’, father’s, & best friend’s death, & MANY other hard nights for many years. I remember feeling at peace & very much happy, as opposed to the cynical, “jaded” way I view life today

Well, our concern is how to raise our children. I don’t believe in any of the religious ideas, but my fiancé really does & he’s very adamant about raising our children Catholic. When I argued that our children should be able to decide for themselves from a neutral ground, he argued that they should be raised Catholic & stray from the church if that’s what they choose.

Does anyone have any advice (perhaps from experiences or anything) on what the best option is? Although I still do wonder/sort of believe there might be a god, I don’t believe enough to raise my child that way. What is the best option for our child when my fiancé really does believe?

 

[JHow]

…Does anyone have any advice (perhaps from experiences or anything) on what the best option is? Although I still do wonder/sort of believe there might be a god, I don’t believe enough to raise my child that way. What is the best option for our child when my fiancé really does believe?

Since you are asking for opinions, mine is that the best option for your children is that you and your husband are both on the same sheet of music spiritually. If you go the way you are, you will both in effect teach that religion doesn’t matter and they will likely end up nothing at all, not principled athiest nor Roman Catholic.

I will add that in my experience, what you and he believe now, and how you behave now, can change (It sounds like you are both young).

 

[blueadept]

Since children within the Catholic faith do not take it upon themselves until Confirmation, I would find out what the age children are confirmed in your diocese. In our diocese, it’s when the child is a junior in high school and at least 16.

My suggestion would be to allow your fiance to follow the guidelines up to that point but freely let the child make the decision for themselves at that point. From my POV, it would meet both of your criterias as you’ve listed.

When my 1st wife and I divorced, the children lived with me for 6 years but they came to a point when they wanted to give their mom another try. During that time, one of my daughters wanted to get baptized as a Christian in a non-denom church and feared that I would flip out since I was a gung ho Catholic at that time. Since she was living with her mom at that time and was 4 hours away, I said that was fine (she was already baptised in the RCC) as long as she allowed me to teach her Catholicism when she came to visit me until she was 16. Eventually, she moved back in with me and fell in love with her Catholic faith. She will be confirmed this coming Easter. It worked for me. But I would have easily dealt with it if she chose differently since I would have felt I did my portion by teaching her the Catholic faith.

My 2 cents

 

[JohnDamian]

Hello & welcome to CAF.

Does anyone have any advice (perhaps from experiences or anything) on what the best option is? Although I still do wonder/sort of believe there might be a god, I don’t believe enough to raise my child that way. What is the best option for our child when my fiancé really does believe?

I am afraid as a Catholic your husband will want to raise your Child/ren Catholic - in fact he is obligated to try and raise the Children Catholic.

Naturally; you are asking Catholics; so our responce was rather predictable. Nonetheless; Baptising the children as Catholic would be the best option; allow your husband to introduce them to the faith; but do not force it down their throats; so to speak.

If your children (regrettably) feel that the Catholic faith is not for them; particularily once they are growing up; it would only be fair to allow them to drop away from the faith - no one should be forced to worship.

If I were you; I would think it fair to raise the Children Catholic; Baptism etc.; and allow them to partake in Holy Communion and so forth; if they so choose, by that time they have reached an “age of reason” at around seven or so, and will be able to make an informed choice.

 

[Ranp]

Hello there. First of all, I am an atheist (self-proclaimed although human & therefore occasionally doubtful).

I was born & raised Catholic; my birth parents went specifically out of their way to make certain that I would be adopted & raised Catholic. I was Catholic until I was about 16. I went through a very rough time & I witnessed some very terrible things caused by “devout Catholics” & was completely turned off against the Catholic church, & eventually against the idea of God.

My fiancé & I are getting married in January. He’s a Catholic & although he’s not extremely religious, he believes & was a bit touchy against my beliefs for awhile (I was Catholic & strongly believing when I met him). He wanted to get married in the Catholic church, but due to us moving in together & moving our wedding date up a year, we couldn’t go through with the process in four months.

One of the biggest concerns we have right now is raising children. As children, we both attended mass regularly with our parents, & I have to admit it was comforting to me to have something whole & united like that community growing up, & I really did believe strongly in God & Jesus when I was younger. That belief helped me through my grandparents’, father’s, & best friend’s death, & MANY other hard nights for many years. I remember feeling at peace & very much happy, as opposed to the cynical, “jaded” way I view life today

Well, our concern is how to raise our children. I don’t believe in any of the religious ideas, but my fiancé really does & he’s very adamant about raising our children Catholic. When I argued that our children should be able to decide for themselves from a neutral ground, he argued that they should be raised Catholic & stray from the church if that’s what they choose.

Does anyone have any advice (perhaps from experiences or anything) on what the best option is? Although I still do wonder/sort of believe there might be a god, I don’t believe enough to raise my child that way. What is the best option for our child when my fiancé really does believe?

I would strongly suggest that you listen to the wisdom of your future husband about raising your kids Catholic. I was born and raised Catholic but was atheist for several years before returning to faith in our Lord. Atheism is not like faith in something else, it is the lack of faith in anything, it is a large dark hole within the self. Atheism does not and cannot have a morality. All of your morality is based upon your past Christian teaching, not upon your atheism. Do you want your kids to have that dark hole within themselves? But more importantly, what if you’re wrong about your Atheism? Have you asked yourself what if there really is a God? How sad can it be to not only find yourself in Hell but to also find your kids there and know that they are there simply because you raised them as atheists. I would beg you to raise your kids as Catholic and while doing so seek to build your own faith. To not do so is not simply risking their lives, it risking their very souls. Should a mother not be willing to go through hell to save her children lives? Should a mother not be willing to build a real spirital life to save her children souls from Hell? Although much less important than salvation, the social life of your kids is also very important. What would also be sad is if the children that would have been born to you and your fiancé were not born because you didn’t marry because you were not willing to step up into a wonderful, and often very hard, spirital life. We should all pray that God’s grace come to you and fill you with faith, wisdom, and strength. May you, your husband, and your future kids experience a wonderful life and an even more wonderful after-life with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ranp

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I have to admit it was comforting to me to have something whole & united like that community growing up, & I really did believe strongly in God & Jesus when I was younger. That belief helped me through my grandparents’, father’s, & best friend’s death, & MANY other hard nights for many years. I remember feeling at peace & very much happy, as opposed to the cynical, “jaded” way I view life today

Do you not think that may be God is trying to tell you something?

 

[jmcrae]

Since children within the Catholic faith do not take it upon themselves until Confirmation, I would find out what the age children are confirmed in your diocese. In our diocese, it’s when the child is a junior in high school and at least 16.

This is incorrect - it’s not the child confirming his baptism; it’s the Holy Spirit confirming his baptism, in Confirmation. The child is Catholic, and bound to all of the laws of the Church until his death, at the moment of Baptism. There is no “altar call” moment in the Catholic faith - just to clear that up.

It’s a serious decision, whether to raise one’s children in the Catholic faith, or not, which is why the Church doesn’t leave it up to you to decide - if one of the parents is Catholic, then the children must be raised Catholic.

Whether they live the faith or not when they become adults is of course up to them, but until they are of age, it is the parents’ job to take them to Mass, teach them the Scriptures and the precepts of the faith, pray with them and for them, and ensure that they receive the Sacraments.

 

[blueadept]

This is incorrect - it’s not the child confirming his baptism; it’s the Holy Spirit confirming his baptism, in Confirmation. The child is Catholic, and bound to all of the laws of the Church until his death, at the moment of Baptism. There is no “altar call” moment in the Catholic faith - just to clear that up.

It’s a serious decision, whether to raise one’s children in the Catholic faith, or not, which is why the Church doesn’t leave it up to you to decide - if one of the parents is Catholic, then the children must be raised Catholic.

So is it the Catholic parents responsibility that their child receive the sacrament of Confirmation since their is no “altar call” as you call it in the Catholic faith?

 

[jmcrae]

So is it the Catholic parents responsibility that their child receive the sacrament of Confirmation since their is no “altar call” as you call it in the Catholic faith?

Yes. When the child is ready to make productive use of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit - Wisdom, Understanding, Knowledge, Right Judgement, Courage, Piety, and Awe of the Lord, then the parents should ensure that their child is given the opportunity to receive the strengthening of these gifts in the Sacrament of Confirmation.

 

[blueadept]

Yes. When the child is ready to make productive use of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit - Wisdom, Understanding, Knowledge, Right Judgement, Courage, Piety, and Awe of the Lord, then the parents should ensure that their child is given the opportunity to receive the strengthening of these gifts in the Sacrament of Confirmation.

That would explain cases of kids who walk the talk throughout their lives and realize that it’s their parents goal for them to get through Confirmation and then quickly fall away from the faith after going through the sacrament. I’ve seen teachers who didn’t feel the child was ready for the sacrament but were overridden by the parents. I can’t say I’ve been impressed with the kids practice of the faith afterwards.

While I appreciate your comments that the sacrament is not necessarily an ‘altar call,’ it does describe the mentality that many kids and parents have taken and why I’ve witnessed many kids not continue their faith afterwards. I’m not worried about my own children in this case since I truly know they love their faith and will treat the sacrament as an altar call. I guess I don’t see the problem with the approach. I don’t question the involvement of the Holy Spirit through this or their involvement in young adulthood.

Of course, going to WYD 2011 should have some positive affects as well.

 

[vsedriver]

My fiancé & I are getting married in January. He’s a Catholic & although he’s not extremely religious, he believes & was a bit touchy against my beliefs for awhile (I was Catholic & strongly believing when I met him). He wanted to get married in the Catholic church, but due to us moving in together & moving our wedding date up a year, we couldn’t go through with the process in four months.

My answer is not going to be popular. I think you should not marry and not have children until you both agree on a direction. It is rare for this to not become an issue in a marriage but more often then people like to admit the ‘religious’ wars can destroy a marriage.

The spiritual well-being of your children should not be left to chance.

 

[jmcrae]

That would explain cases of kids who walk the talk throughout their lives and realize that it’s their parents goal for them to get through Confirmation and then quickly fall away from the faith after going through the sacrament. I’ve seen teachers who didn’t feel the child was ready for the sacrament but were overridden by the parents. I can’t say I’ve been impressed with the kids practice of the faith afterwards.

While I appreciate your comments that the sacrament is not necessarily an ‘altar call,’ it does describe the mentality that many kids and parents have taken and why I’ve witnessed many kids not continue their faith afterwards. I’m not worried about my own children in this case since I truly know they love their faith and will treat the sacrament as an altar call. I guess I don’t see the problem with the approach. I don’t question the involvement of the Holy Spirit through this or their involvement in young adulthood.

Of course, going to WYD 2011 should have some positive affects as well.

There are two false impressions in play here. The first is that Confirmation is “graduation” from Church - that they have now done their duty and assured their place in Heaven, and never have to darken the door of a Church again.

The second is that Confirmation is how you become a Catholic, and that if you choose not to be Confirmed, then it doesn’t matter if you don’t practice your Faith, or that you are making a choice that allows you to not practice your Faith if you decide not to get Confirmed.

Both impressions are equally false.

Confirmation is the final Sacrament of Initiation for most people, but Baptism is the Sacrament that makes you Catholic, and binds you to the laws of the Church. Someone who was baptized but never Confirmed has the same obligation to do penance on Fridays, attend Mass on Sundays, go to Confession when necessary, and be married according to the laws of the Church as those who have been Confirmed.

 

[HeavenlyRoses]

You are younger than me and I have the benefit of hindsight. I was raised Catholic but did not marry in the Church because of my husband. I was protestant for many years and raised our daughters that way until they were 8 and 10, when I went completely off the deep end and ultimately declared myself atheist. I was so sure of myself and rationalized away all the clear signs and blessings I’d been given over the years.
Then a funny thing happened. A small spark reversed my path entirely and ignited a fire in me to return to my Catholic faith. I am now making up for lost time and raising my son Catholic and having my marriage convalidated. I try not to be bitter about the wasted years and the fact that I dropped the ball so badly with my daughters. Once I chose to believe again the Catholic faith made so much more sense than it ever did before.
The big point here is the Catholic faith is a powerful force. That you are having memories of the positive feelings of your childhood faith is a clear sign (to me) that you are being drawn back. If your husband is moderately Catholic now, he will probably be more so after the birth of your children.
If you declare you are an atheist you leave no room for the possibility of God. It is rather a narrow-minded approach. But if you leave yourself open to belief you will find it in your heart and mind; it gives you a starting point. Someone once told me that God speaks softly so listen carefully.
Good luck to you!

 

[Todd520]

Hello there. First of all, I am an atheist (self-proclaimed although human & therefore occasionally doubtful).

I was born & raised Catholic; my birth parents went specifically out of their way to make certain that I would be adopted & raised Catholic. I was Catholic until I was about 16. I went through a very rough time & I witnessed some very terrible things caused by “devout Catholics” & was completely turned off against the Catholic church, & eventually against the idea of God.

My fiancé & I are getting married in January. He’s a Catholic & although he’s not extremely religious, he believes & was a bit touchy against my beliefs for awhile (I was Catholic & strongly believing when I met him). He wanted to get married in the Catholic church, but due to us moving in together & moving our wedding date up a year, we couldn’t go through with the process in four months.

One of the biggest concerns we have right now is raising children. As children, we both attended mass regularly with our parents, & I have to admit it was comforting to me to have something whole & united like that community growing up, & I really did believe strongly in God & Jesus when I was younger. That belief helped me through my grandparents’, father’s, & best friend’s death, & MANY other hard nights for many years. I remember feeling at peace & very much happy, as opposed to the cynical, “jaded” way I view life today

Well, our concern is how to raise our children. I don’t believe in any of the religious ideas, but my fiancé really does & he’s very adamant about raising our children Catholic. When I argued that our children should be able to decide for themselves from a neutral ground, he argued that they should be raised Catholic & stray from the church if that’s what they choose.

Does anyone have any advice (perhaps from experiences or anything) on what the best option is? Although I still do wonder/sort of believe there might be a god, I don’t believe enough to raise my child that way. What is the best option for our child when my fiancé really does believe?

My apologies if you find my response blunt

• I feel the responsibility of a parent is to make decisions for their children, and educate them, so they can make good decisions when they become adults.
• It’s not right to force young children to make a decision of faith or education – You wouldn’t ask them if they want to go to K1-12?
• Don’t blame the church for sins of the people – we all sin.
• Don’t ignore all the good Catholics have done.
• Where better to learn Christian morals and ideals than through a church
• Where else can they learn ‘community’ as you felt it growing up?

 

[JHow]

There are two false impressions in play here. The first is that Confirmation is “graduation” from Church - that they have now done their duty and assured their place in Heaven, and never have to darken the door of a Church again.

The second is that Confirmation is how you become a Catholic, and that if you choose not to be Confirmed, then it doesn’t matter if you don’t practice your Faith, or that you are making a choice that allows you to not practice your Faith if you decide not to get Confirmed.

Both impressions are equally false.

Confirmation is the final Sacrament of Initiation for most people, but Baptism is the Sacrament that makes you Catholic, and binds you to the laws of the Church. Someone who was baptized but never Confirmed has the same obligation to do penance on Fridays, attend Mass on Sundays, go to Confession when necessary, and be married according to the laws of the Church as those who have been Confirmed.

I have never understood the hang-ups people have over “choosing” a faith and “altar-calls”. I feel like I have to make choices to follow God all the time. My child who has received first communion, but has not been confirmed yet, has to struggle and choose to follow his faith everyday in his way as well (and,to your point, following the above-mentioned Catholic obligations).

I understand the formal boundary-markers of baptism, communion, confirmation, but God is there all along, and we try to follow, fall and get back up al the time.

 

[JHow]

My answer is not going to be popular. I think you should not marry and not have children until you both agree on a direction. It is rare for this to not become an issue in a marriage but more often then people like to admit the ‘religious’ wars can destroy a marriage.

The spiritual well-being of your children should not be left to chance.

I was not catholic when my wife and I got engaged. When I told my (protestant) dad of our intentions, one of the first things he asked was my thoughts on how we might raise children. He didn’t push either way, but he did say we (my wife and I) should be “united” in what we did. Looking back (15 years), I very much feel like this was extremely good advice. You can see from my tag how things resolved themselves. I would add, though, that my wife and I have influenced each other profoundly in how we approach our faith. Neither is the same person we were when we first got married (Bible-Belt Protestant Prays Rosary, Feminist Catholic Gets a Spine!). I second your opinion that this is exactly the kind of thing you should talk about before you take the plunge.

 

[restenergy]

I would strongly suggest that you listen to the wisdom of your future husband about raising your kids Catholic. I was born and raised Catholic but was atheist for several years before returning to faith in our Lord. Atheism is not like faith in something else, it is the lack of faith in anything, it is a large dark hole within the self. Atheism does not and cannot have a morality. All of your morality is based upon your past Christian teaching, not upon your atheism. Do you want your kids to have that dark hole within themselves? But more importantly, what if you’re wrong about your Atheism? Have you asked yourself what if there really is a God? How sad can it be to not only find yourself in Hell but to also find your kids there and know that they are there simply because you raised them as atheists. I would beg you to raise your kids as Catholic and while doing so seek to build your own faith. To not do so is not simply risking their lives, it risking their very souls. Should a mother not be willing to go through hell to save her children lives? Should a mother not be willing to build a real spirital life to save her children souls from Hell? Although much less important than salvation, the social life of your kids is also very important. What would also be sad is if the children that would have been born to you and your fiancé were not born because you didn’t marry because you were not willing to step up into a wonderful, and often very hard, spirital life. We should all pray that God’s grace come to you and fill you with faith, wisdom, and strength. May you, your husband, and your future kids experience a wonderful life and an even more wonderful after-life with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ranp

I do agree that raising a child Catholic does have benefits; one of the things I’m concerned about is something my mother said though. When we were planning on getting married in the church, she told me for me to do so (when I’m clearly not a very religious person) would be to base my marriage on lies, and I am worried that by raising my child to believe something I don’t, I’m building their lives on lies as well. But then again, I was raised Catholic but my mother is wiccan & I never found out until I was 18.

Luckily, I am not pregnant and not having to make this choice right now! This is just one of our concerns that we’ve spoken about when it comes to our getting married. We’re at the age and point in our lives (we’ve been together 4 years) where people begin asking what we plan to do with kids. Thanks so much for the advice, everyone. It’s weird but I was half expecting people to say not to raise a child Catholic unless both parents are.

 

[restenergy]

My apologies if you find my response blunt

• I feel the responsibility of a parent is to make decisions for their children, and educate them, so they can make good decisions when they become adults.
• It’s not right to force young children to make a decision of faith or education – You wouldn’t ask them if they want to go to K1-12?
• Don’t blame the church for sins of the people – we all sin.
• Don’t ignore all the good Catholics have done.
• Where better to learn Christian morals and ideals than through a church
• Where else can they learn ‘community’ as you felt it growing up?

I would never dream of making my child choose their faith at a young age; I think the only way to ever understand what you believe is by looking at all of the options available although being in one might help someone make a better decision. My fiancé really wants our children sent to Catholic school, and I did get a lot out of it. But that is also one of the places that made me see the bad in the church, which I’m not blaming the entire church for. My biggest problem is that I have trouble not arguing my point on what I believe, and I don’t understand how I will be able to pretend to be something that I’m not. I’m a confirmed Catholic, but I went through the process without truly wanting it. I only did it so my mom wouldn’t take away my car! I feel almost guilty going into a church when I have the thoughts that I do against the religion. Perhaps it is a selfish reason to not want to raise my children Catholic but I don’t want to be a hypocrite either.

 

[jmcrae]

I would never dream of making my child choose their faith at a young age;

The point is that they don’t choose their faith at any age - you the parent choose it for them, in the same way that you choose their nationality, their place of residence, and their education. Kids are not supposed to have a choice about these things.

 

[restenergy]

The point is that they don’t choose their faith at any age - you the parent choose it for them, in the same way that you choose their nationality, their place of residence, and their education. Kids are not supposed to have a choice about these things.

I understand that, but when they get to be older & they realize that their parent doesn’t believe in the church (if I still don’t at that time), how good of an example will I be? I feel like I’m being judged for considering having a family based on one faith (because my fiance wants us to start going to mass & “getting involved” & also for possibly raising our children this way) when I don’t personally believe it. Maybe I am being overly sensitive, but I’ve had a few family members (all of who are not Catholic) look down on me for “letting my fiance get what he wants where religion is concerned”.

Of course, I’m speaking to mostly Catholics right now, but I am guessing that part of my concern with raising my children Catholic is that it isn’t what I personally believe and people will view my family’s religious values as invalid. I don’t know if that makes any sense!