Children throwing Rocks at the Sun : Supreme Court VS. Sacrament of Marriage

[freerf]

I am reminded today that Truth cannot be destroyed. Truth is not in danger. The Sacrament of Marriage is not in danger.

Yes, it is being attacked, beaten, and mocked. The trappings and traditions surrounding truth, the little pleasant social constructs we enjoy, will suffer. Possibly to wither away and die. That is sad.

But Truth will only be ever more exposed. And, exposed, it becomes ever more apparent and reaffirmed.

Our Sacrament of Marriage - a special reverence and God-given Grace of the life-giving relationship between one man and one woman - is ancient. Even more telling is the fact that every religious order over a hundred years old recognizes is unique and superior position in society.

So, today I rest assured that the Sacrament of Marriage is not at all wounded by Supreme Courts, Secular Governments, and Radical Revolutionaries. They are merely children throwing rocks at the sun.

St. John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you… If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you… because they do not know Him who sent Me."

 

[sarah_j]

I am reminded today that Truth cannot be destroyed. Truth is not in danger. The Sacrament of Marriage is not in danger.

Yes, it is being attacked, beaten, and mocked. The trappings and traditions surrounding truth, the little pleasant social constructs we enjoy, will suffer. Possibly to wither away and die. That is sad.

But Truth will only be ever more exposed. And, exposed, it becomes ever more apparent and reaffirmed.

Our Sacrament of Marriage - a special reverence and God-given Grace of the life-giving relationship between one man and one woman - is ancient. Even more telling is the fact that every religious order over a hundred years old recognizes is unique and superior position in society.

So, today I rest assured that the Sacrament of Marriage is not at all wounded by Supreme Courts, Secular Governments, and Radical Revolutionaries. They are merely children throwing rocks at the sun.

St. John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you… If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you… because they do not know Him who sent Me."

• Amen.*

 

[Dorothy]

…and Amen!

 

[Memaw]

…and Amen!

And so we pray for those that fall into their trap. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Dorothy]

And so we pray for those that fall into their trap. God Bless, Memaw

And, prayer is the greatest power in the world!

 

[freerf]

But it’s not being attacked, beaten, and mocked.
The decision by the Supreme Court is very separate from the sacramental marriages in the Catholic church, and never the twain shall meet.
Their decision and these marriages don’t touch the church at all…they are two different worlds and dimensions.
In the same way that secular divorce is does not involve the church at all…neither do secular marriages.

.

Not being attacked, beaten, and mocked?

What would an attack and mocking of the church look like in your opinion? Mobs with pitchforks? Ha!

“two different worlds and dimensions?” Eh? What theology is this? Mork calling Orson? Nanu nanu? I’m not familiar with it.

The Sacrament of Marriage is in no danger, truly. And US “marriage” is not the same as Catholic Marriage. Nor is the Catholic Church in danger. Is that your point? If so, we agree.

However, it is an attack. The legislation that follows this ruling will affect every Catholic Institution in the US, from Orphanages, to Colleges, to Churches. They hope to bend the Catholic Church to their will, and if not bend…surround and mock, humiliate, and incapacitate.

Will the Church fall? Of course not. But it is a hit. A direct hit.

 

[teeboy]

Not being attacked, beaten, and mocked?

What would an attack and mocking of the church look like in your opinion? Mobs with pitch forks? Ha!

The Sacrament of Marriage is in no danger, truly. But the US is becoming more and more hostile to the Catholic Church, and to Catholic people. Ask the Catholic photographer who prefers not to photograph gay weddings – as they lose their business and are inundated with hate mail, do you suppose they’ll agree? Ask the nuns who run orphanages that are being shut down because they will not provide gay couples with children. Are they not under attack? Mocked? Look to the trouble Catholic Universities have when trying to selectively hire practicing Catholics - they’re being called hate-filled bigots!

Are these not attakes? Mocking? Time to wake up!

“persecution of the Church”, “persecution of the Church”…

It isn’t the first time in history. Persecution makes the church stronger. Why does it make the church stronger? Because the Church is weak and needs more strength. It is week because of its actions and lack of actions.

To sum it up: “the church needs a big cross right now”.

 

[Captain_America]

Truth wins in the end. The communist bosses found this out.

The next step we need to take is to initiate a constitutional amendment. The Supreme Court is just one branch of the three branches; Lincoln understood this and understood that the power of the people wins in the end.

In other words, it’s hardly over. It’s just begun.

All this **** legislation can be changed by legislation.

 

[freerf]

“persecution of the Church”, “persecution of the Church”…

It isn’t the first time in history. Persecution makes the church stronger. Why does it make the church stronger? Because the Church is weak and needs more strength. It is week because of its actions and lack of actions.

To sum it up: “the church needs a big cross right now”.

Amen!

 

[freerf]

Truth wins in the end. The communist bosses found this out.

The next step we need to take is to initiate a constitutional amendment. The Supreme Court is just one branch of the three branches; Lincoln understood this and understood that the power of the people wins in the end.

In other words, it’s hardly over. It’s just begun.

All this **** legislation can be changed by legislation.

Yes! We simply need a good politician…

 

[Dan999]

I think we will need to wait for the fruit be borne of this decision.

"Once upon a time, there was a farmer in the central region of China. He didn’t have a lot of money and, instead of a tractor, he used an old horse to plow his field.

One afternoon, while working in the field, the horse dropped dead. Everyone in the village said, “Oh, what a horrible thing to happen.” The farmer said simply, “We’ll see.” He was so at peace and so calm, that everyone in the village got together and, admiring his attitude, gave him a new horse as a gift.

Everyone’s reaction now was, “What a lucky man.” And the farmer said, “We’ll see.”

A couple days later, the new horse jumped a fence and ran away. Everyone in the village shook their heads and said, “What a poor fellow!”

The farmer smiled and said, “We’ll see.”

Eventually, the horse found his way home, and everyone again said, “What a fortunate man.”

The farmer said, “We’ll see.”

Later in the year, the farmer’s young boy went out riding on the horse and fell and broke his leg. Everyone in the village said, “What a shame for the poor boy.”

The farmer said, “We’ll see.”

Two days later, the army came into the village to draft new recruits. When they saw that the farmer’s son had a broken leg, they decided not to recruit him.

Everyone said, “What a fortunate young man.”

The farmer smiled again - and said “We’ll see.”"

 

[Yeoman]

But it’s not being attacked, beaten, and mocked.
The decision by the Supreme Court is very separate from the sacramental marriages in the Catholic church, and never the twain shall meet.
Their decision and these marriages don’t touch the church at all…they are two different worlds and dimensions.
In the same way that secular divorce is does not involve the church at all…neither do secular marriages.

.

But marriage does, of which Sacramental marriage is part of the whole. The Church recognizes marriages that are not sacramental. Amongst those are “natural” marriages, which have existed in all cultures at all times, because they define how the byproduct of male female relationships and exist for that reason.

Pretending that male male relationships, or female female relationship, irrespective of their morality, have the same incidents is a fantasy and deeply contrary to nature. Ironically, in this era when we’re all about “natural”, we aren’t about ourselves. This matters, as pretending that the unnatural is natural hurts those engaging in the fantasy, and distracts and distorts from the actual purpose of marriage.

The only real defense for same sex marriages is that we don’t wont to offend anyone. But the basic nature of us all should not offend, and pretending that everything is okay will not make it so.

Besides, the practical effect of this is that if you are in the legal field at all, this ruling forces you to now compromise your morals and pretend that the fantasy is real. The alternative is to get out entirely, at which time, of course, we will have marginalized ourselves.

 

[Yeoman]

One thing I wonder about is why it seems that the Bishops and Priests tolerate this from our co-religious more than they should.

Kennedy is a Supreme Court justice, to be sure, but by deciding this way, he’s acting in a manner contrary to our understanding of the natural law. He can be a liberal judicial hero by doing so, but should he get to be unmolested in the pews? Did his Parish Priest address him today on this topic? Did his Bishop? If not, why not?

 

[freerf]

One thing I wonder about is why it seems that the Bishops and Priests tolerate this from our co-religious more than they should.

Kennedy is a Supreme Court justice, to be sure, but by deciding this way, he’s acting in a manner contrary to our understanding of the natural law. He can be a liberal judicial hero by doing so, but should he get to be unmolested in the pews? Did his Parish Priest address him today on this topic? Did his Bishop? If not, why not?

Good question.

Seems to me the answer could be either a. weakness (human), or b. meekness (supernatural).

 

[freerf]

In the same way that secular divorce is does not involve the church at all…neither do secular marriages.

.

This is false.

Secular divorce and secular marriage does affect the Church. Greatly. Ever sit in an RCIA class? Ever talk to a grieving man or woman who cannot get Married in a Catholic Church because of a previous marriage outside the church? Or because the Church won’t recognize their secular divorce from 20 years prior?

I have.

It is very sad.

 

[teeboy]

I think we will need to wait for the fruit be borne of this decision.

"Once upon a time, there was a farmer in the central region of China. He didn’t have a lot of money and, instead of a tractor, he used an old horse to plow his field.

One afternoon, while working in the field, the horse dropped dead. Everyone in the village said, “Oh, what a horrible thing to happen.” The farmer said simply, “We’ll see.” He was so at peace and so calm, that everyone in the village got together and, admiring his attitude, gave him a new horse as a gift.

Everyone’s reaction now was, “What a lucky man.” And the farmer said, “We’ll see.”

A couple days later, the new horse jumped a fence and ran away. Everyone in the village shook their heads and said, “What a poor fellow!”

The farmer smiled and said, “We’ll see.”

Eventually, the horse found his way home, and everyone again said, “What a fortunate man.”

The farmer said, “We’ll see.”

Later in the year, the farmer’s young boy went out riding on the horse and fell and broke his leg. Everyone in the village said, “What a shame for the poor boy.”

The farmer said, “We’ll see.”

Two days later, the army came into the village to draft new recruits. When they saw that the farmer’s son had a broken leg, they decided not to recruit him.

Everyone said, “What a fortunate young man.”

The farmer smiled again - and said “We’ll see.”"

Great read.

I see cross and resurrection written all over it (it being the story of the farmer and son).

We’ll see…

 

[InThePew]

But it’s not being attacked, beaten, and mocked.
The decision by the Supreme Court is very separate from the sacramental marriages in the Catholic church, and never the twain shall meet.
Their decision and these marriages don’t touch the church at all…they are two different worlds and dimensions.
In the same way that secular divorce is does not involve the church at all…neither do secular marriages…

You’re right in so far as the decision doesn’t force the Church two marry two persons of the same sex, nor does it claim to. The Church remains free to set its own rules for who it will and will not marry. If anything, it’s civil marriage celebrants who face the greatest difficulty when it comes to reconciling their religious beliefs with their civil obligations since what they do arguably goes beyond simply providing a service.

The thornier issue which is yet to emerge is the provision of benefits (such as on campus housing for example) to married couples and it’s here that Church and state are likely to come into conflict.

 

[Dorothy]

“persecution of the Church”, “persecution of the Church”…

It isn’t the first time in history. Persecution makes the church stronger. Why does it make the church stronger? Because the Church is weak and needs more strength. It is week because of its actions and lack of actions.

To sum it up: “the church needs a big cross right now”.

Yes! And we believe that our Lord Jesus Christ will help us to carry it.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I am reminded today that Truth cannot be destroyed. Truth is not in danger. The Sacrament of Marriage is not in danger.

Yes, it is being attacked, beaten, and mocked. The trappings and traditions surrounding truth, the little pleasant social constructs we enjoy, will suffer. Possibly to wither away and die. That is sad.

But Truth will only be ever more exposed. And, exposed, it becomes ever more apparent and reaffirmed.

Our Sacrament of Marriage - a special reverence and God-given Grace of the life-giving relationship between one man and one woman - is ancient. Even more telling is the fact that every religious order over a hundred years old recognizes is unique and superior position in society.

So, today I rest assured that the Sacrament of Marriage is not at all wounded by Supreme Courts, Secular Governments, and Radical Revolutionaries. They are merely children throwing rocks at the sun.

St. John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you… If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you… because they do not know Him who sent Me."

Top Op!
Well said.
Love the…“throwing rocks at the sun” metaphor.

 

[Vico]

I am reminded today that Truth cannot be destroyed. Truth is not in danger. The Sacrament of Marriage is not in danger.

Yes, it is being attacked, beaten, and mocked. The trappings and traditions surrounding truth, the little pleasant social constructs we enjoy, will suffer. Possibly to wither away and die. That is sad.

But Truth will only be ever more exposed. And, exposed, it becomes ever more apparent and reaffirmed.

Our Sacrament of Marriage - a special reverence and God-given Grace of the life-giving relationship between one man and one woman - is ancient. Even more telling is the fact that every religious order over a hundred years old recognizes is unique and superior position in society.

So, today I rest assured that the Sacrament of Marriage is not at all wounded by Supreme Courts, Secular Governments, and Radical Revolutionaries. They are merely children throwing rocks at the sun.

St. John 15:18-21
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you… If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you… because they do not know Him who sent Me."

Although the Sacrament is safe in the teaching of the Church, there is yet “grave detriment to the common good”. The state has failed “in its duty to promote and defend marriage as an institution essential to the common good”.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons (3 June 2003), 8, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, Vatican City 2003, p. 9.:“If, from the legal standpoint, marriage between a man and a woman were to be considered just one possible form of marriage, the concept of marriage would undergo a radical transformation, with grave detriment to the common good. By putting homosexual unions on a legal plane analogous to that of marriage and the family, the State acts arbitrarily and in contradiction with its duties”.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To Unions Between Homosexual Persons:III. ARGUMENTS FROM REASON AGAINST LEGAL RECOGNITION OF HOMOSEXUAL UNIONS
6. To understand why it is necessary to oppose legal recognition of homosexual unions, ethical considerations of different orders need to be taken into consideration.

From the order of right reason

The scope of the civil law is certainly more limited than that of the moral law,(11) but civil law cannot contradict right reason without losing its binding force on conscience.(12) Every humanly-created law is legitimate insofar as it is consistent with the natural moral law, recognized by right reason, and insofar as it respects the inalienable rights of every person.(13) Laws in favour of homosexual unions are contrary to right reason because they confer legal guarantees, analogous to those granted to marriage, to unions between persons of the same sex. Given the values at stake in this question, the State could not grant legal standing to such unions without failing in its duty to promote and defend marriage as an institution essential to the common good.

It might be asked how a law can be contrary to the common good if it does not impose any particular kind of behaviour, but simply gives legal recognition to a de facto reality which does not seem to cause injustice to anyone. In this area, one needs first to reflect on the difference between homosexual behaviour as a private phenomenon and the same behaviour as a relationship in society, foreseen and approved by the law, to the point where it becomes one of the institutions in the legal structure. This second phenomenon is not only more serious, but also assumes a more wide-reaching and profound influence, and would result in changes to the entire organization of society, contrary to the common good. Civil laws are structuring principles of man’s life in society, for good or for ill. They “play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behaviour”.(14) Lifestyles and the underlying presuppositions these express not only externally shape the life of society, but also tend to modify the younger generation’s perception and evaluation of forms of behaviour. Legal recognition of homosexual unions would obscure certain basic moral values and cause a devaluation of the institution of marriage.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html