Children who married outside their Catholic Faith

[Mijoy2]

There are probably a million threads on this already. I have a few specific questions/request for those who are going through (or have gone through this in thier past) this same pain I am now experiencing.

I am a revert to the faith. I ignored my Catholic faith throughout virtually all my life until about 8 years ago while in my mid-late 40s. This means I also ignored the spiritual life of my children until they were well past the formative years an into thier very late teenage years. A time when we all know we have little influence. This is, needless to say, the biggesst regret of my life.

I have, throughout the last 8 or so years now attempted to the best of my ability to make up for this. This attempt includes convincing them to go through RCIA (along with my wife) and join the CC. My wife was protestant. Throughout my reversion process I consideered any christian faith system. They all began on equal ground for me. Meaning I was equally ignorant to them all. My research and self education convinced me the Catholic Faith was the one true faith. My wife, more out of a deep gratitude to God for my conversion, was willing to learn the CC and become Catholic. My children who had a very sporatic christian upbringing, more went along for the ride. In other words, they did it for me. I did realize this at the time but half admitted it and hoped the Holy Spirit would help me out and bring them along into a deeper faith.

Sorry for the long leadup. Now, my younger daughter is engaged and living with a man in another state. She is an adult now of 25. This other man is a non-practicing Baptist who is divorced. He was previously marrind in a Baptist church. His claim is that his marriage fell apart do to his wife’s infidelities and her desiring to end the marriage. He desired for it to work and went to great efforts to this end, however it did not work.

Now, I am attempting to get him and my daughter to consider an annulment of his previous marriage (which I believe would be required). He does not want to do this because he feels his marrage was a marriage, just a failed one and he does not want to consider it nullified. He doesn’t fully understand I do not believe.

Also, because of the lack of a deep routed faith in either of them, this is, of course, a work load they are not willing to carry. Again, even if I could convince them to do it (and I would pay for it) they would be doingn it, once again, more for me.

Howvever, once again, I intend to try. I am about to write them a loong letter describing what Marriage is to the church. I hope I can do a good enough job to, at least, make them think more deeply about it.

Have any of you experienced anything like this in your lives? If so, what was the outcome? How did you feel? If your son or daughter got married ultimately by a JP did you attend the ceremony (albiet reluctantly) or did you insist on not attending.

I’d love to hear others stories and outcomes. Please feel free to PM me if you are more comfortable sharing that way or if you have any advice you’d like to give. All responses very welcome and appreciated in any manner.

Thanks so much.

 

[1ke]

A non-Catholic can petition the tribunal regarding nullity of marriage when they are joining the Catholic Church or marrying a Catholic.

Neither of these seems to be the case. Neither your daughter nor her intended is Catholic. Therefore, I suggest you do not attempt to steer them in that direction. The Church will not take their case.

Certainly his prior marriage is an impediment to valid marriage, but I do not know that you will be successful in convincing them of this fact.

 

[Mijoy2]

A non-Catholic can petition the tribunal regarding nullity of marriage when they are joining the Catholic Church or marrying a Catholic.

Neither of these seems to be the case. Neither your daughter nor her intended is Catholic. Therefore, I suggest you do not attempt to steer them in that direction. The Church will not take their case.

Certainly his prior marriage is an impediment to valid marriage, but I do not know that you will be successful in convincing them of this fact.

My daughter is Catholic. As stated she went through RCIA.

 

[1ke]

My daughter is Catholic. As stated she went through RCIA.

I misread, I thought you encouraged her to go through RCIA, not that she actually went.

So, yes, continue to encourage her to return to the practice of the faith and to marry in the Church.

Three To Get Married by Archbishop Fulton Sheen might be a good book to give her.

 

[Mijoy2]

I misread, I thought you encouraged her to go through RCIA, not that she actually went.

So, yes, continue to encourage her to return to the practice of the faith and to marry in the Church.

Three To Get Married by Archbishop Fulton Sheen might be a good book to give her.

Thanks for the advice. I have been recommended this book before. Where this is a 2nd recommendation I think it is time I check it out. Thanks much

 

[Mijoy2]

I guess not too many catholic parents are in this situation (having thier children marry outside of Catholicism). I am a bit surprised. I am curious as to why. I would have thought this topic to stir the emotions as it has stirred mine.

Perhaps of the people who visit these forums they have done a much better job of myself of bringing up thier children to understand the importance of keeping thier Catholic faith. Either that or perhaps other parents do not see this as such a problem as I do.

 

[Phemie]

My children were raised in the Faith. We attended Mass every Sunday and nothing interferred with that. They knew it was pointless to argue so they didn’t bother. In spite of that, I don’t think they got much in the line of Catholic doctrine. They only attended a Catholic school for 3 years and I’m not sure how much they got out of that. As a military family we were often in places that didn’t have Catholic schools and only one parish offered Catechisis outside of school.

They all prepared for and were confirmed and although I knew the oldest two didn’t go to Mass when they were off at university, they still attended when they came home.

Then the youngest turned 19 and declared that since he was now an adult he would no longer be going to Church. The other two followed suit the next time they came home. Maybe I was a lousy Catholic mother but I didn’t see how dragging him out of bed on Sunday morning would make God meaningful in his life. I also didn’t want to kick him out because other than that he was a good man, had a job, went to school, didn’t abuse alcohol or drugs.

The long and short of it is that all 3 kids lived with partners out of wedlock. The oldest, a girl, had a civil wedding and refuses to have our grandson baptized because she says she’d have to lie and pretend that she intends to raise him Catholic. The infrequent conversations we’ve had on the topic leads me to believe that at this point she is agnostic leaning towards atheism, her husband is an atheist, although he was nominally Anglican.

The second oldest will be marrying a Catholic girl in August in a civil ceremony. At one point the youngest was planning a wedding to a Lutheran girl and I found out that he’d never even mentioned to her that he was Catholic.

None of the three has anything to do with the Church beyond going to Midnight Mass at Christmas for nostalgia’s sake – it reminds them of their grandfather.

Although I did make my feelings known about their choice of getting married outside the Church, I attended DD’s wedding and I will attend DS1’s wedding in August. To stay away would only turn them more against the Church.

 

[OurBeloved]

There are probably a million threads on this already. I have a few specific questions/request for those who are going through (or have gone through this in thier past) this same pain I am now experiencing.

I am a revert to the faith. I ignored my Catholic faith throughout virtually all my life until about 8 years ago while in my mid-late 40s. This means I also ignored the spiritual life of my children until they were well past the formative years an into thier very late teenage years. A time when we all know we have little influence. This is, needless to say, the biggesst regret of my life.

I have, throughout the last 8 or so years now attempted to the best of my ability to make up for this. This attempt includes convincing them to go through RCIA (along with my wife) and join the CC. My wife was protestant. Throughout my reversion process I consideered any christian faith system. They all began on equal ground for me. Meaning I was equally ignorant to them all. My research and self education convinced me the Catholic Faith was the one true faith. My wife, more out of a deep gratitude to God for my conversion, was willing to learn the CC and become Catholic. My children who had a very sporatic christian upbringing, more went along for the ride. In other words, they did it for me. I did realize this at the time but half admitted it and hoped the Holy Spirit would help me out and bring them along into a deeper faith.

Sorry for the long leadup. Now, my younger daughter is engaged and living with a man in another state. She is an adult now of 25. This other man is a non-practicing Baptist who is divorced. He was previously marrind in a Baptist church. His claim is that his marriage fell apart do to his wife’s infidelities and her desiring to end the marriage. He desired for it to work and went to great efforts to this end, however it did not work.

Now, I am attempting to get him and my daughter to consider an annulment of his previous marriage (which I believe would be required). He does not want to do this because he feels his marrage was a marriage, just a failed one and he does not want to consider it nullified. He doesn’t fully understand I do not believe.

Also, because of the lack of a deep routed faith in either of them, this is, of course, a work load they are not willing to carry. Again, even if I could convince them to do it (and I would pay for it) they would be doingn it, once again, more for me.

Howvever, once again, I intend to try. I am about to write them a loong letter describing what Marriage is to the church. I hope I can do a good enough job to, at least, make them think more deeply about it.

Have any of you experienced anything like this in your lives? If so, what was the outcome? How did you feel? If your son or daughter got married ultimately by a JP did you attend the ceremony (albiet reluctantly) or did you insist on not attending.

I’d love to hear others stories and outcomes. Please feel free to PM me if you are more comfortable sharing that way or if you have any advice you’d like to give. All responses very welcome and appreciated in any manner.

Thanks so much.

I think in this case since the would-be husband of your daughter does admit and insist that the first marriage was indeed valid, it might actually be wrong for you to insist on him getting an annulment. It seems to be the case that there might not actually be grounds for an annulment and both him and his previous wife consented and consummated an actual marriage.

From what you have said, the actual course of action would be to try and convince your daughter about the sin in pursuing this relationship with an already married man.

 

[Mijoy2]

My children were raised in the Faith. We attended Mass every Sunday and nothing interferred with that. They knew it was pointless to argue so they didn’t bother. In spite of that, I don’t think they got much in the line of Catholic doctrine. They only attended a Catholic school for 3 years and I’m not sure how much they got out of that. As a military family we were often in places that didn’t have Catholic schools and only one parish offered Catechisis outside of school.

They all prepared for and were confirmed and although I knew the oldest two didn’t go to Mass when they were off at university, they still attended when they came home.

Then the youngest turned 19 and declared that since he was now an adult he would no longer be going to Church. The other two followed suit the next time they came home. Maybe I was a lousy Catholic mother but I didn’t see how dragging him out of bed on Sunday morning would make God meaningful in his life. I also didn’t want to kick him out because other than that he was a good man, had a job, went to school, didn’t abuse alcohol or drugs.

The long and short of it is that all 3 kids lived with partners out of wedlock. The oldest, a girl, had a civil wedding and refuses to have our grandson baptized because she says she’d have to lie and pretend that she intends to raise him Catholic. The infrequent conversations we’ve had on the topic leads me to believe that at this point she is agnostic leaning towards atheism, her husband is an atheist, although he was nominally Anglican.

The second oldest will be marrying a Catholic girl in August in a civil ceremony. At one point the youngest was planning a wedding to a Lutheran girl and I found out that he’d never even mentioned to her that he was Catholic.

None of the three has anything to do with the Church beyond going to Midnight Mass at Christmas for nostalgia’s sake – it reminds them of their grandfather.

Although I did make my feelings known about their choice of getting married outside the Church, I attended DD’s wedding and I will attend DS1’s wedding in August. To stay away would only turn them more against the Church.

Thank you for sharing this. it helps to hear others who have gone through the same struggles.

 

[Mijoy2]

I think in this case since the would-be husband of your daughter does admit and insist that the first marriage was indeed valid, it might actually be wrong for you to insist on him getting an annulment. It seems to be the case that there might not actually be grounds for an annulment and both him and his previous wife consented and consummated an actual marriage.

From what you have said, the actual course of action would be to try and convince your daughter about the sin in pursuing this relationship with an already married man.

This might be true. But the odds of two people, supposedly in love, walking away from this love because I feel she is sinning for pursuing this relationship, has monumentally less chance of working.

The “marriage” had infidelities. I thought that was a strong ground for annulment. Especially where the infidelities happened very early in the marriage.

 

[mamaslo]

So far I was the child. It really bothered my mom, and probably my dad. They both went to my “wedding” but I am baptized–>Confirmed Catholic too. But I was away from the church and the Holy Spirit did say to me (and I didn’t know what this really was at all until I hear His voice say…) “Who’s going to do the annulment?”

That issue has been the most painful eyeopener for me. To realize later, that God called me home and the father of my children said he would get an annulment for 10 years, then I gave up waiting, started to live as brother and sister (a priest’s advice was that children need both a father and a mother) and I had to let go of the idea of an annulment. It has been quite painful, as we are completely separate now, emotionally. My DD has come around to see his passive aggression…at one point he said to me that he would have been ok if it had been anything but Catholic. He was raised Baptist. He and his mother and family have talked badly about the church in front of the kids, about my chastity and finally, my DD sees that I was there for her.

He believes God has forgiven him for his first marriage, and that he will not ever be Catholic, so why the annulment. He was granted one but now the relationship is two people in the same home, he is not engaged with anyone but his mother. He was even mad when our DD decided to become Confirmed last year. He and his mother came but crossed their arms and left right after. Angry.

So This is my experience. I am on anti depressants and we have three counsellors for three of us. My son may need one soon. He is 11 and is still hoping we all do something together.

It has been quite painful, and I am drained.

Not everyone attempts to get hitched with a passive aggressive inactive baptist. Right now, I am discerning if I should even approach sacramental status or divorce him legally and finish it. Your daughter’s friend may or may not give her a hard time over this, but marriage is about love and sacrifice. So if he loves your daughter, I would think he would love her through this too.

I am sorry to bring you bad news. Not everyone has this kind of story. Many have some kind of conversion. There is also a book called “When only one converts” that has more painful stories.

Pray for them. The catechism does a good job explaining marriage as does “Love and Responsibility”.

 

[OurBeloved]

This might be true. But the odds of two people, supposedly in love, walking away from this love because I feel she is sinning for pursuing this relationship, has monumentally less chance of working.

The “marriage” had infidelities. I thought that was a strong ground for annulment. Especially where the infidelities happened very early in the marriage.

It could be grounds. But in this case, the husband seems to strongly believe they had a valid marriage, which I presume is because they did strongly agree to marriage with each other before and when it happened.

On a more general level, to seek an annulment for the sake of marrying another in such a scenario where you firmly believe that you were previously married, could reduce the whole process to seem like another name for Divorce. It also seems to give the incorrect idea that one can never be sure if they are actually married. In this sense, I really can see where the husband is coming from. If he goes along with the annulment, at one point, he might feel when the going gets tough with your daughter that the two of them never had a marriage to begin with as well.

But on the other hand, I really see your dilemma too. Prayer is always helpful too when we as human beings feel that we have reached our limits and cannot do anything by ourselves. Have hope!

 

[mamaslo]

Infidelity is not grounds for divorce. It can be a symptom of something bigger but it isn’t grounds all by itself.

If he feels like it was a real marriage, then he is still married. but you know that and I am stating the obvious.

pray for them. regardles of wether it is a valid marriage to the first wife, the church still sees it as valid until proven otherwise. If he is not willing to ask the church to clear that up one way or the other, it spells trouble and I am sorry about that.

peace.

 

[Mijoy2]

People had warned me that one day I would elect to turn my back on the Catholic faith because of how it negatively effects and hurts people I love because of issues such as this.

I find this an insurmountable problem effecting a person I love dearly. The church offers little in suggestions or assistance.

That day may have come. I can easily see how people walk away.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Unfortunately we reap what we sow. That is true of all people at all times. The Church doesn’t create the obstacles - we do that ourselves. The Church points out the narrow path around, between the obstacles that is often difficult to stay on.

Continue to pray, both for your dd and her intended. You cannot make them petition for an annulement (and as others have said, it is not guarenteed to be granted). You cannot stop your adult daughter from marrying this man. If they do get married, you should pray that he works as hard for this amrraige as he claims to have done for his first.

If you were once convinced of the truths of the Church, do not turn your back on it now. Through yourself into the arms of Holy Mother Church and of Jesus. Askyour priest forsupport, continue to attend Mass (daily Mass as often as you can), spend time in adoration. Give up these troubles to God and be led by the Spirit.

 

[c0ldb33r]

It doesnt seem right to convince him to get an annulment. It doesnt pass the smell test, but hey who am I to judge

 

[OurBeloved]

People had warned me that one day I would elect to turn my back on the Catholic faith because of how it negatively effects and hurts people I love because of issues such as this.

I find this an insurmountable problem effecting a person I love dearly. The church offers little in suggestions or assistance.

That day may have come. I can easily see how people walk away.

If I may speak a bit more boldly here, once upon a time, it took you guts I am sure to realize that you are wrong to be outside the church and make your way back in to it.

Now it is your daughters turn to do just that. She needs to realize the sin in getting involved with a married man in God’s eyes (who is only legally ‘divorced’). You need to be steady today and tell her that she is sinning and always stay firm in what you believe.

If you run to her own defense by abandoning your own faith, what good does it do to anyone? We are on a journey to heaven. Don’t throw it all away to join someone who is drifting away. Just keep a line between you and the drifter and slowly try to pull them back on course.

Sorry if I was too bold.

 

[Mijoy2]

I don’t quite understand the responses that suggest I should not attempt to convince him to get an annulment.

Assuming he sees that if his former marriage is annulled then it would mean my daughter and he are not living in sin. He does not have to become a catholic, he just has to get his former marriage annuled so that my daughter can remain one.

Where is my thought process here flawed?

It is highly unlikely that once they are married, she will have such a stong conversion to her faith that she will see that they are sinning and she will leave her husband.

This is what I mean but this seeming to be a catch-22 in my very own faith. Remember when you respond that this my little girl, my daughter we are discussing, not some good friend of mine or some extended family member. It’s my daughter, whom if she is living ina state of sin, my life too is deeply affected almost to the point of despair.

Are we not talking about the soul of a son or daughter here? Shouldn’t I do everything humanly possible? If so isn’t teaching them what the church teaches about annulments one of those things?

 

[KnitNut]

If I may speak a bit more boldly here, once upon a time, it took you guts I am sure to realize that you are wrong to be outside the church and make your way back in to it.

Now it is your daughters turn to do just that. She needs to realize the sin in getting involved with a married man in God’s eyes (who is only legally ‘divorced’). You need to be steady today and tell her that she is sinning and always stay firm in what you believe.

If you run to her own defense by abandoning your own faith, what good does it do to anyone? We are on a journey to heaven. Don’t throw it all away to join someone who is drifting away. Just keep a line between you and the drifter and slowly try to pull them back on course.

Sorry if I was too bold.

That doesn’t come across as “too bold”. There’s a time & place for plain talk, and this is probably one of those times. I’m just going to mention that, if I’m reading correctly, she & the rest of the kids just “went along to get along” with Dad. It also sounds like a fairly recent event. Just because she went through the motions doesn’t mean she has incorporated it as a pillar of her life. The OP suggests this is the case. This situation (sort of) comes across as another “go along to get along” conflict for her. The OP should approach his spiritual father for guidance, specific guidance. The spiritual father will have a better idea of the circumstances, the OP’s personal state and the best approach for the OP personally.

I don’t recall if the daughter has a spiritual father, or any type of ongoing relationship with her church? If so, perhaps an informal discussion could be arranged. I don’t recall the daughter’s age - is there a solid youth/young adult group that would be fun as well as informative?

The OP might consider his own faith “lifestyle” to see that he’s walking the walk beyond bringing up “rules” to his daughter. (OP, that is not meant to bash you in any way. But kids tend to learn by observation.) Prayer & fasting under the direction of his spiritual father may help the OP develop an approach as well as a proper attitude toward dealing with his children in matters of faith.

Finally, the OP might consider a family discussion (with EVERYONE there) facilitated by someone not embroiled in the situation (priest, mediator, non-reactive family friend) where everyone involved can share their perspective, plans and ideas. Perhaps a family “retreat”?

Just a penny’s-worth of thoughts, chucked in from the cheap seats.

Best wishes, OP!

 

[mamaslo]

I don’t quite understand the responses that suggest I should not attempt to convince him to get an annulment.

Assuming he sees that if his former marriage is annulled then it would mean my daughter and he are not living in sin. He does not have to become a catholic, he just has to get his former marriage annuled so that my daughter can remain one.

Where is my thought process here flawed?

It is highly unlikely that once they are married, she will have such a stong conversion to her faith that she will see that they are sinning and she will leave her husband.

This is what I mean but this seeming to be a catch-22 in my very own faith. Remember when you respond that this my little girl, my daughter we are discussing, not some good friend of mine or some extended family member. It’s my daughter, whom if she is living ina state of sin, my life too is deeply affected almost to the point of despair.

Are we not talking about the soul of a son or daughter here? Shouldn’t I do everything humanly possible? If so isn’t teaching them what the church teaches about annulments one of those things?

Sir,
you can only attempt to educate. Don’t under estimate the power of the Holy Spirit. When He does get your DDs attention, she will need your strength more than ever.

I suggest you try. Take the young man out to lunch and bring the book JoanofArc2008 always recommends. I think it is called the Marriage that Once Was…I am possibly wrong on this but, The Catechism gets into this too and is worded very well. Love and Responsibility is good to teach about what marriage and the “embrace” are all about. It isn’t about committment although that is part of it, but the embrace is a prayer where you invite God into the union, He comes down while the couple lifts themself up to God. That is why adultery messes that all up. How can you ask God to come down if it is wrong?

Anyway…you try. Be gentle, and prayerful. Also, go to Adoration…ask the Holy Spirit to direct you.

peace.