Children who married outside their Catholic Faith

[Mijoy2]

That doesn’t come across as “too bold”. There’s a time & place for plain talk, and this is probably one of those times. I’m just going to mention that, if I’m reading correctly, she & the rest of the kids just “went along to get along” with Dad. It also sounds like a fairly recent event. Just because she went through the motions doesn’t mean she has incorporated it as a pillar of her life. The OP suggests this is the case. This situation (sort of) comes across as another “go along to get along” conflict for her. The OP should approach his spiritual father for guidance, specific guidance. The spiritual father will have a better idea of the circumstances, the OP’s personal state and the best approach for the OP personally.

I don’t recall if the daughter has a spiritual father, or any type of ongoing relationship with her church? If so, perhaps an informal discussion could be arranged. I don’t recall the daughter’s age - is there a solid youth/young adult group that would be fun as well as informative?

The OP might consider his own faith “lifestyle” to see that he’s walking the walk beyond bringing up “rules” to his daughter. (OP, that is not meant to bash you in any way. But kids tend to learn by observation.) Prayer & fasting under the direction of his spiritual father may help the OP develop an approach as well as a proper attitude toward dealing with his children in matters of faith.

Finally, the OP might consider a family discussion (with EVERYONE there) facilitated by someone not embroiled in the situation (priest, mediator, non-reactive family friend) where everyone involved can share their perspective, plans and ideas. Perhaps a family “retreat”?

Just a penny’s-worth of thoughts, chucked in from the cheap seats.

Best wishes, OP!

I appreciate the 'thoughts". To clarify a few things; as stated in the OP, I came back to faith late in the game so my daughter certainly witnessed me NOT “walking the walk” however in recent years she (as well as others) feel I walk the walk all to narrowly.

What on earth is a “spiritual father”? I am a regular Mass attender of course but I only have a very casual relationship with my Pastor. He knows me by name: I am a “better then average” financial contributor of which Ii am sure he is aware, but it is not my nature to “talk” with people on such matters. I am kind of on introvert in matters like these. I’ve thought about conversing with him but have no as of yet. He has also said some thing sthat make me believe he is not the most orthodox, where I am a “by the book” Catholic.

Perhaps that is part of my problem. Others would certainly suggest this is the case.

 

[maryjk]

Have any of you experienced anything like this in your lives? If so, what was the outcome? How did you feel? If your son or daughter got married ultimately by a JP did you attend the ceremony (albiet reluctantly) or did you insist on not attending.

I’d love to hear others stories and outcomes. Please feel free to PM me if you are more comfortable sharing that way or if you have any advice you’d like to give. All responses very welcome and appreciated in any manner.

Thanks so much.

My own mother could have written a post very similar to this 20 years ago. My parents dabbled in being Catholic, while I was growing up. I did receive the Sacraments, but not much more than that.

At 24, I moved out of my parents home and into my boyfriend’s. We lived together for 2 years, then got married by a JP. After about 4 years of civil marriage, we had a child. I had our child Baptized, and prepared him for Confession and 1st Communion. Right before his 1st Communion, I realized that I was doing the same thing my parents had done, and decided that I needed to step up to the plate and stop pretending to be Catholic.

We had our marriage Convalidated. (There wasn’t a previous marriage for either of us.)

I know that my mom spent many many nights praying for me. But I know she also realized that by not raising me in the faith, she played a key role in my lack of knowledge about the faith.

I think sometimes it is easy for some to sit back and tell everyone what to do. I see many times on these forums posters telling parents to not attend a civil ceremony. Or to refuse to go to an adult child’s home because they weren’t married in the Church.

But I wonder how many times the situation is similar to mine. Where my parents weren’t practicing Catholics when they raised me, but reverted back to the faith. Sure it is easy to say “sorry, in the past few years I realized that I should have been living my faith, so now I plan to hold you to what I now believe.” It is much more difficult to attend the ceremony, go to the child’s house and preach the Gospel with your actions, rather than your words.

 

[Mijoy2]

My own mother could have written a post very similar to this 20 years ago. My parents dabbled in being Catholic, while I was growing up. I did receive the Sacraments, but not much more than that.

At 24, I moved out of my parents home and into my boyfriend’s. We lived together for 2 years, then got married by a JP. After about 4 years of civil marriage, we had a child. I had our child Baptized, and prepared him for Confession and 1st Communion. Right before his 1st Communion, I realized that I was doing the same thing my parents had done, and decided that I needed to step up to the plate and stop pretending to be Catholic.

We had our marriage Convalidated. (There wasn’t a previous marriage for either of us.)

I know that my mom spent many many nights praying for me. But I know she also realized that by not raising me in the faith, she played a key role in my lack of knowledge about the faith.

I think sometimes it is easy for some to sit back and tell everyone what to do. I see many times on these forums posters telling parents to not attend a civil ceremony. Or to refuse to go to an adult child’s home because they weren’t married in the Church.

But I wonder how many times the situation is similar to mine. Where my parents weren’t practicing Catholics when they raised me, but reverted back to the faith. Sure it is easy to say “sorry, in the past few years I realized that I should have been living my faith, so now I plan to hold you to what I now believe.” It is much more difficult to attend the ceremony, go to the child’s house and preach the Gospel with your actions, rather than your words.

Thanks you for this Maryjk

And thank all the others who responded. I do hope there are more responses. There is indeeed comfort in numbers. Responses like Marys and some of the others make me realize a pigheaded approach is not necassarily the best one.

 

[OurBeloved]

I don’t quite understand the responses that suggest I should not attempt to convince him to get an annulment.

Assuming he sees that if his former marriage is annulled then it would mean my daughter and he are not living in sin. He does not have to become a catholic, he just has to get his former marriage annuled so that my daughter can remain one.

Where is my thought process here flawed?

The flaw is in the fact that the first marriage was indeed a valid one. To ask the husband to get an annulment or for you to even work toward one would be to sort of deceive. You might even be able to receive an annulment from the church, but it would have been for a case where the marriage was indeed valid. In this sense, you would have scandalized both your daughter and the husband to believe that Annulment is just another fancy name for Divorce in the Catholic Church.

You have to remember that if a marriage was freely consented to and consummated by two individuals, then it is valid. The husband is in-fact confused at your insistence on why its not valid because of this very reason. As some have also pointed out, infidelity is not grounds for an annulment either. The Annulment deals with the scenario where a marriage never happened.

In this case, it seems quiet clear that the first marriage did happen and the husband even insists that it does. Would it be right for anyone to pressure him to make him believe it never validly happened?

Have you also considered the reality that your daughter has to step away from the relationship in either case until the annulment procedure has completed? Because it is very possible that the annulment will be rejected and in that event, your daughter has to leave that relationship. So to avoid committing a sin, she needs to move out of the relationship now anyway.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

My parents quit taking my siblings and I to church when we they divorced, I was about 8yo. My grandparents took us when we lived in the same town as them when we didn’t my mom would drop us off at the church steps and pick us up afterwards. As a result I went to church sporadically for years, one sibling married a Mormon and converted, the other married and they compromised and became Lutheran. I finally came back as in going to mass and practicing the faith about 10 years ago on my own. After my grandparents passed I think there are only a few in the family that consider themselves Catholic or have not left the Church and fewer of us who attend weekly mass and practice our faith. It is sad. The best you can do is PRAY!!! You can also give them information, do it with love and not pressure. Some may come back home, most won’t.

 

[KnitNut]

I appreciate the 'thoughts". To clarify a few things; as stated in the OP, I came back to faith late in the game so my daughter certainly witnessed me NOT “walking the walk” however in recent years she (as well as others) feel I walk the walk all to narrowly.

What on earth is a “spiritual father”? I am a regular Mass attender of course but I only have a very casual relationship with my Pastor. He knows me by name: I am a “better then average” financial contributor of which Ii am sure he is aware, but it is not my nature to “talk” with people on such matters. I am kind of on introvert in matters like these. I’ve thought about conversing with him but have no as of yet. He has also said some thing sthat make me believe he is not the most orthodox, where I am a “by the book” Catholic.

Perhaps that is part of my problem. Others would certainly suggest this is the case.

What is a spiritual father? Here’s an early reference: Acts 30-31

*Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

“How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.*

You might be more familiar or comfortable with the phrase “spiritual director”. In the first instance, your priest/confessor is a good candidate for personal spiritual direction, as he sees you on a regular basis, hears your confession, gets to know you on a more personal basis & becomes familiar with your ongoing personal struggles. If the parish priest is unwilling/unavailable, a neighboring parish or monastery might have someone available. The point of an individual spiritual director, visited regularly, is that he will be able to guide you personally. If your “by the book” practice is taken too far, it might impede your growth in holiness, damage your obligatory relationships (family, community, etc), bring you to despair if you’re trying to do “too much, too soon”. He will advise you on anything from developing a daily prayer rule to fasting/penitential practices to readings to family issues…pretty much anything. He would have the best picture to recommend specific ways for you to handle issues like this engagement/wedding, and to handle any perceived disappointment/rejection. I’d talk with your priest…humbly. It is perhaps not appropriate to compare and find oneself superior in faith to a consecrated holy priest.

Finally, if there’s a monastery nearby, or an Eastern Catholic church, you might visit either/both and inquire about spiritual direction. The monastery obviously engages in regular, in-depth direction for their community - perhaps they assist lay people as well. And the Eastern Catholic parishes, being somewhat closer in certain practices to Orthodoxy, probably have clergy comfortable with the “spiritual father” relationship. I’m not sure, but it could be worth asking. But I’d start with your parish priest. You might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[Mijoy2]

The flaw is in the fact that the first marriage was indeed a valid one. To ask the husband to get an annulment or for you to even work toward one would be to sort of deceive. You might even be able to receive an annulment from the church, but it would have been for a case where the marriage was indeed valid. In this sense, you would have scandalized both your daughter and the husband to believe that Annulment is just another fancy name for Divorce in the Catholic Church.

You have to remember that if a marriage was freely consented to and consummated by two individuals, then it is valid. The husband is in-fact confused at your insistence on why its not valid because of this very reason. As some have also pointed out, infidelity is not grounds for an annulment either. The Annulment deals with the scenario where a marriage never happened.

In this case, it seems quiet clear that the first marriage did happen and the husband even insists that it does. Would it be right for anyone to pressure him to make him believe it never validly happened?

Have you also considered the reality that your daughter has to step away from the relationship in either case until the annulment procedure has completed? Because it is very possible that the annulment will be rejected and in that event, your daughter has to leave that relationship. So to avoid committing a sin, she needs to move out of the relationship now anyway.

I am not sure you are correct about this. An annulment also considers a persons intent when they were married. For inistance, if the marriage was open to life from the start. If the intent was to be truly faithful from the start. I do not think it is nearly as cut and dry as you suggest.

An example might be; a couple marries and suggests too the church they will be open to life, yet thier true intent is to never have children and they now admit it. This may be grounds for annulment.

I do not think it is as cut and dried as you suggest.

 

[maryjk]

I do not think it is as cut and dried as you suggest.

It isn’t. If it was, we wouldn’t need tribunals.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

The flaw is in the fact that the first marriage was indeed a valid one. To ask the husband to get an annulment or for you to even work toward one would be to sort of deceive. You might even be able to receive an annulment from the church, but it would have been for a case where the marriage was indeed valid. In this sense, you would have scandalized both your daughter and the husband to believe that Annulment is just another fancy name for Divorce in the Catholic Church.

You have to remember that if a marriage was freely consented to and consummated by two individuals, then it is valid. The husband is in-fact confused at your insistence on why its not valid because of this very reason. As some have also pointed out, infidelity is not grounds for an annulment either. The Annulment deals with the scenario where a marriage never happened.

In this case, it seems quiet clear that the first marriage did happen and the husband even insists that it does. Would it be right for anyone to pressure him to make him believe it never validly happened?

Have you also considered the reality that your daughter has to step away from the relationship in either case until the annulment procedure has completed? Because it is very possible that the annulment will be rejected and in that event, your daughter has to leave that relationship. So to avoid committing a sin, she needs to move out of the relationship now anyway.

This is exactly correect. Whether the man petitions for an annullment or not, at this moment he is considered validly married and your message to dd should be to consider that he may always been seen that way in the eyes of the church.

An annullment says that a marriage never took place – not that there was something wrong with the marrtiage after the fact. If the man and his wife entered their marriage with free consent, and with the goal to attempt a valid marriage, than very likely their marriage *was *valid - despite the subsequent infidelity.

As I said previously, we all reap what we sow. Your daughter, even though she did go through RCIA as an older teen/adult, did not take her commitment seriously and is now in a difficult spot.

However heartbreaking it may be for you though, you cannot force them to do what you know is right. Your efforts will be most worthwhile in praying for them. Certainly share your knowledge, get the book recommended and read them, but most importantly spend time before the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[OurBeloved]

I am not sure you are correct about this. An annulment also considers a persons intent when they were married. For inistance, if the marriage was open to life from the start. If the intent was to be truly faithful from the start. I do not think it is nearly as cut and dry as you suggest.

An example might be; a couple marries and suggests too the church they will be open to life, yet thier true intent is to never have children and they now admit it. This may be grounds for annulment.

I do not think it is as cut and dried as you suggest.

But you do realize there is a bit of bad vibe in that you are essentially trying to make the first marriage invalid because there is a need for a second marriage?

The biggest issue here is that you are saying the marriage was invalid when the husband feels pretty certain that the marriage was valid and very real. To me this is problematic because what certitude does any couple have now that they are actually married? What certainty would your own daughter have that she was married, if she ever does end up marrying this man? It seems like by your definition, even if the spouses themselves are certain that their was a valid marriage and consent was exchanged, it is still invalid.

To be honest, the right thing for you to do is to encourage him to get back with his wife because this man truly believes that he married her and I am sure she does too. So they must have consented to fidelity though they might not have been able to fulfill the promise. You should point out how Divorce is not possible for Christians and explain to him how if he really believes they were married, they need to get back together or live a single life abstaining from sex with others.

Just out of curiosity, when a married couple starts having problems and they start liking someone else, it seems that rather than make it work, according to your understanding, they should both just seek an annulment. In other words, Annulment here has simply been reduced to a Divorce with another word.

Now as I said before, in either case, you will still have to ask your daughter to leave the relationship till an annulment process is complete anyway. Since you seem to want to pursue this route of an annulment, mainly because asking her to leave the relationship seems infeasible, this is also something to think about. Because you still will and should ask your daughter to stop the relationship (at least till the annulment decision from the tribunal comes in which could be years in some cases).

So what you must do I think is clear. First you must explain to the gentleman why if he feels he was indeed validly married, then he needs to go back to his wife or remain single and chaste. Now this might cause him to seek an annulment by considering the validity of his previous marriage or might make him repent and get back with his wife. But it is all up to him from that point. The next thing you must do is advice your daughter to end the current form of the relationship (maybe they can just be friends now) until he gets a result from the Tribunal for an annulment case (if he ever files).

Right now there seems to be a confusion that your daughter can continue the way things are if he files for an annulment. She cannot do so.

 

[Mijoy2]

=OurBeloved;9226180
So what you must do I think is clear. First you must explain to the gentleman why if he feels he was indeed validly married, then he needs to go back to his wife or remain single and chaste. Now this might cause him to seek an annulment by considering the validity of his previous marriage or might make him repent and get back with his wife. But it is all up to him from that point. The next thing you must do is advice your daughter to end the current form of the relationship (maybe they can just be friends now) until he gets a result from the Tribunal for an annulment case (if he ever files).

Right now there seems to be a confusion that your daughter can continue the way things are if he files for an annulment. She cannot do so.

They live 1500 miles away. They both know very well how I feel.

His wife left him. He (so I have been told) did everything in his power to reconcile the marriage including getting the pastor who married them involved. She (his wife) had and will have nothing to do with it. We have to assume no chance at any reconciliation. She does not even have much to do with the child that resulted from this marriage.

I have “advised” my daughter to end the relationship untill I am blue in the face. No chance thier either.

The main concern of mine (I guess I did not make it clear enough) is that there are two possible outcomes here:

1. He gets an annulment and they get married
   result: she can remain in communion with the church and receive the sacrements

2)There is no annulment and they get married
result:She is not in communion with the church - presumingly for the rest of her life.

This is what drives my sense of urgency. Now there are those who will suggest strongly that if it does not come from them then it is half-hearted anyway. I COULD NOT BE ANY MORE AWARE OF THIS. However, because of the “rules” if you will of the CC, this (possibly argued) misuse of the rules, leaves the door open for a potenial, later in life, deeper conversion to the Church. If there is no annulment, the effort(s) that would be required (one of which could be seperating forever) is viewed by me as much more likely to close the door forever on any hopes of conversion.

I realize it is difficult to get a complex matter across in a forum thread without writing a book. I hope I did a better job with this post then the OP.

Summary: Her heart is not deeply into the faith (but there is certainly a spark there, she has read some books I have suggeted)
The problem is, once they are married (civilly) I see the door being closed forever (most likely). If the marriage were at least annuled, if they come to a deeper understanding and love for the faith later in life, logistically (and that is the key point) it would be much easier. The difficult logistics, acts as a deterant. Here in lies the problem.

As far as your comments regarding the fact that he considers the marriage valid, I understand the point. However it implies that only one party must feel this way. My contention is that (possibly) the good intentions was only one-sided. Based on what you are suggesting the following scenario would apply:

A couple marrys. One (the male)desires it to last forever, the other went into it deceitfully to steal from the other and then skip town. The male is bound to this marriage and must live out his life chaste according to Catholic teaching? This is perhaps more exptreme then my daughters case. But I suggest it is similiar (at least a tribunal might see it this way). Her intent was flawed, is the theory.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

No one but the tribunal can rule of the validity of his previous marriage. If he and your daughter want to pursue an anullment, they need to meet with the priest in her parish and discuss it with him. He can then advise them further as to what steps they should take.

Continue to pray for them, we will be praying also.

 

[ryecroft]

For the OP I’ve been wondering this for a while - you said you got your kids to go into RCIA - I’m wondering if you kind of wouldn’t let it go about being Catholic and going to RCIA and they finally just decided - ‘fine I’ll do it just to get you off my back about it…’ or something similar. If this is the case, even if there’s a spark, she may just be past caring. It’s just a thought - sometimes kids do things for their parents just to make them happy or just to get them to stop pushing a point home or keep the peace.
If this is indeed what happened, which I can’t help but wonder if it is, then your daughter may not really care - (except for you) and may look at this as just another hoop to jump through to please dad -and in this case she may be viewing you as pushing YOUR faith on her too much. I understand, you don’t want to despair for her, but if she just went into the faith not for herself but to please you or go along, then I really doubt how seriously she took her formation. Many adult Cradle Catholics don’t get the whole annulment thing or just don’t really feel it’s that important - I hope it works out for you, but just don’t push this so hard that your daughter winds up not wanting to see you or invite you to the wedding because she feels that every time she sees you all she gets is the same subject of her not being able to marry in the Catholic Church. It may be best at a point to bide your time - you can’t MAKE her or him -sometimes you have to say your piece and pray - but remember you’re wanting this to happen in your time - God’s time (I’ve sadly found) rarely ever conforms with ‘my’ time - if you catch my drift.
God Bless
Rye

 

[mamaslo]

I still say don’t underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit. Your daughter has an idelible mark on her soul as a child of God. He has met her before, He will do His work, even if she makes it difficult.

 

[OurBeloved]

They live 1500 miles away. They both know very well how I feel.

His wife left him. He (so I have been told) did everything in his power to reconcile the marriage including getting the pastor who married them involved. She (his wife) had and will have nothing to do with it. We have to assume no chance at any reconciliation. She does not even have much to do with the child that resulted from this marriage.

I have “advised” my daughter to end the relationship untill I am blue in the face. No chance thier either.

The main concern of mine (I guess I did not make it clear enough) is that there are two possible outcomes here:

1. He gets an annulment and they get married
   result: she can remain in communion with the church and receive the sacrements

2)There is no annulment and they get married
result:She is not in communion with the church - presumingly for the rest of her life.

This is what drives my sense of urgency. Now there are those who will suggest strongly that if it does not come from them then it is half-hearted anyway. I COULD NOT BE ANY MORE AWARE OF THIS. However, because of the “rules” if you will of the CC, this (possibly argued) misuse of the rules, leaves the door open for a potenial, later in life, deeper conversion to the Church. If there is no annulment, the effort(s) that would be required (one of which could be seperating forever) is viewed by me as much more likely to close the door forever on any hopes of conversion.

I realize it is difficult to get a complex matter across in a forum thread without writing a book. I hope I did a better job with this post then the OP.

Summary: Her heart is not deeply into the faith (but there is certainly a spark there, she has read some books I have suggeted)
The problem is, once they are married (civilly) I see the door being closed forever (most likely). If the marriage were at least annuled, if they come to a deeper understanding and love for the faith later in life, logistically (and that is the key point) it would be much easier. The difficult logistics, acts as a deterant. Here in lies the problem.

As far as your comments regarding the fact that he considers the marriage valid, I understand the point. However it implies that only one party must feel this way. My contention is that (possibly) the good intentions was only one-sided. Based on what you are suggesting the following scenario would apply:

A couple marrys. One (the male)desires it to last forever, the other went into it deceitfully to steal from the other and then skip town. The male is bound to this marriage and must live out his life chaste according to Catholic teaching? This is perhaps more exptreme then my daughters case. But I suggest it is similiar (at least a tribunal might see it this way). Her intent was flawed, is the theory.

But her intent, according to the husband was not false, isn’t it? Infidelity in marriage is not grounds for annulment. He firmly believes that a marriage took place, as in she did commit to it but just wasn’t able to live out her vows. The problem here in you insisting that there wasn’t a marriage to being with can make every-ones marriage up for debate. Even the one that your daughter might contract with him.

And I the door is not closed forever once they are civilly married. The ball is really on your daughters court. She needs to realize the sin she is committing. What you would be doing in pressuring the husband to get an annulment is facilitate the sin she is committing.

We cannot do evil/wrong for good ends. It’s a core teaching of Catholic Theology. So in this case, if you do realize that there is a problem in pressuring someone who really believes the marriage was valid to get an annulment, and you have no real reason to say that his previous wife was not honest in agreeing to fidelity, then you are doing something wrong. I think the best you can do is suggest an annulment (which he has already said “no” to) and advice your daughter about the sin she is committing. And then Pray!

The rest is up to your daughter.

 

[ryecroft]

You mentioned that you were going to write a long letter about what marriage is to the Church - no offense but I doubt she’ll really care - but what I did want to say is why don’t you ask her (without preceeding with anything about the Church and marriage) what marriage is to her and possibly her fiance - (mostly her I guess) - then you might have a better spring board to hit points home with -
That might help you with later arguments - and for someone considering marriage -especially a potential bride, this is generally a popular subject - just a thought -
God Bless
Rye

 

[mamaslo]

OurBeloved,
I see your point.

There is one problem though, he may not know what is meant by valid or invalid. If she could not give consent because of some hidden reason, then no sacramental marriage occurred.

OPs daughter is only getting legally married at this point. You are right though, I would rather her be able to see your point too. It just creates heartache because of the separation from God.

OP you have said your peace to your DD, and now the rest IS up to her. It makes me sad that she is following in my footsteps (and she doesn’t even know me).

In my experience it has been a long time of my awakening, and now he finally went through the annulment procedure, but there isn’t much of a relationship left. He has been chipping away at the hull of this ship for 12 years, and now that the Church says he is available, I am not so sure I want him. But see, now there are two children who really really really want their dad to interact, and do things with them, but he just isn’t there for them either. The absent dad who is present.

At this point, she may just not understand what love entails. I have had to go through this to find out at least a glimpse of what it entails, and what I have ain’t it! If your future SIL won’t do this for her soul, then he may or may not come around. Having children has an effect on parents though. They save us too, but then we have a pile of sin to take care of and no one comes out unharmed unless both truly love God, the kids, and each other.

I am sorry you are in this heartbreaking situation with your daughter.

 

[OurBeloved]

OurBeloved,
I see your point.

There is one problem though, he may not know what is meant by valid or invalid. If she could not give consent because of some hidden reason, then no sacramental marriage occurred.

OPs daughter is only getting legally married at this point. You are right though, I would rather her be able to see your point too. It just creates heartache because of the separation from God.

That is a good point. I guess the OP can perhaps give him some resources on it.

Something else that clicked when reading your post was the following.

This husband does seem to think his previous marriage was valid but also believes that the divorce was valid and is free to remarry. So it appears that the husband does not believe in the indissolubility of marriage. Given that is the case, even if he does receive an annulment, his promise to “forever till death do us part” would actually be false and something he doesn’t clearly believe (as demonstrated by his current position). Besides it being possible grounds for the annulment of that 2nd marriage (if the should ever need arise), it poses a bigger question whether the daughter should even be pursuing marriage with this individual.

It would seem quiet clear that the daughter is making a bad choice and would be in the interest of the OP to prevent it for the daughters own good.

 

[ryecroft]

It would seem quiet clear that the daughter is making a bad choice and would be in the interest of the OP to prevent it for the daughters own good.

How exactly is he supposed to do that? She’s not a child - she’s free to marry who she wants - I don’t see that he has any way of doing this - also if he tries to ‘force’ her not to marry him, and she feels she loves him, he can say good bye to likely having a good relationship with her - let alone any grandkids that would come into the scenario. Trying to force someone to marry or not marry can carry some nasty consequences. Then, even if later she did want to try to get her fiance or husband at the time - whatever - an annulment, she’s very UNlikely to want to go to the father.
I get the feeling that by now she knows her father’s stance on it - he pushes it too much farther and he may not be getting to see his daughter or future grandchildren.
It’s a cruddy situation - the father has no control - your only recourse (if you want to keep a relationship going with your daughter and her future progeny - and by extent their faith) is to pray. The OP already admitted he figured they became Catholic to basically please him. The father may feel it’s an invalid marriage (and by the Church it is) but if the daughter doesn’t care, the only recourse I see is to pray. Honestly, it seems the daughter holds all the cards here (being in touch - any future grandchildren, etc.)- I have seen relationships dissentigrate because of someone trying to push Their beliefs on someone else. This is the truth for the father - I don’t believe for a second that the daughter believes all of this is the “Truth” - and I can see where she might just view what her father wants her fiance to get as a “Catholic Divorce”. This is just an almost no win situation - because I don’t get the feeling the daughter is going to see this as a reason not to be with her fiance - although I must admit, the pointing out about how he made his first marriage one that he pledged “till death us do part” and now with the 1st still alive (although I do feel badly for him if he really did try as hard as is believed) he’s telling the daughter he wants to make this pledge to her again…maybe ‘until we get too annoyed or tired with each other we part’ might be a little more on the money.

Sorry for the diatribe - I’ve just seen some families implode from Baptists and Catholics debating which way a marriage should go and which faith is ‘right’. It’s kind of like with war -no one believes that God isn’t on their side or that their side isn’t the ‘right’ side.
God Bless
Rye

 

[mamaslo]

OP I feel like we are talking around you. You probably have everything you need, right?

I agree if you can figure a way to keep communications open. I understand the fear, and angst. But she has free will.

maybe if you can figure a way to keep open communication with her, you can also get her ear and say what she needs to hear in such a way she can understand.

It is a tough road regardless. But still, don’t underestimate the Holy Spirit.