Children who married outside their Catholic Faith

[Mijoy2]

I thank you all. I think you see the delicate balance I am dealing with.

I do not know how a tribunal deals with a former protestant on protestant marriage. Protestants do “believe in” honoring thier vows “till death do us part” but certainly do not see it as sinning if it goes otherwise. In fact, the same minister who married my sister-in-law, married her again 10 or so years later to another man. As far as I know, with no difficult questions asked. I believe this is the norm. Certainly not unusual.

This makes me wonder how a tribunal can declare a protestant marriage “indesolvable” when the protestant minsiter, bride and groom do not see ithat way going into it. They “hope” it works out, are willing to work at it. But, best of my knowledge, do see it as a sacred covanent that would place them in a state of “not in communion” if it were in fact to disolve.

As far as the wifes concept of the marriage (which has been brought up in this thread a few times) I have no idea. Although, evidence would certainly suggest her idea was not one of indesolvability.

 

[Mijoy2]

OP I feel like we are talking around you. You probably have everything you need, right?

I agree if you can figure a way to keep communications open. I understand the fear, and angst. But she has free will.

maybe if you can figure a way to keep open communication with her, you can also get her ear and say what she needs to hear in such a way she can understand.

It is a tough road regardless. But still, don’t underestimate the Holy Spirit.

I will pray for your situation as well Mamaslo. You are indeed a nice person to spend time caring about my situation when you are dealing with your own. Thank you.

 

[OurBeloved]

How exactly is he supposed to do that? She’s not a child - she’s free to marry who she wants - I don’t see that he has any way of doing this - also if he tries to ‘force’ her not to marry him, and she feels she loves him, he can say good bye to likely having a good relationship with her - let alone any grandkids that would come into the scenario. Trying to force someone to marry or not marry can carry some nasty consequences. Then, even if later she did want to try to get her fiance or husband at the time - whatever - an annulment, she’s very UNlikely to want to go to the father.
I get the feeling that by now she knows her father’s stance on it - he pushes it too much farther and he may not be getting to see his daughter or future grandchildren.
It’s a cruddy situation - the father has no control - your only recourse (if you want to keep a relationship going with your daughter and her future progeny - and by extent their faith) is to pray. The OP already admitted he figured they became Catholic to basically please him. The father may feel it’s an invalid marriage (and by the Church it is) but if the daughter doesn’t care, the only recourse I see is to pray. Honestly, it seems the daughter holds all the cards here (being in touch - any future grandchildren, etc.)- I have seen relationships dissentigrate because of someone trying to push Their beliefs on someone else. This is the truth for the father - I don’t believe for a second that the daughter believes all of this is the “Truth” - and I can see where she might just view what her father wants her fiance to get as a “Catholic Divorce”. This is just an almost no win situation - because I don’t get the feeling the daughter is going to see this as a reason not to be with her fiance - although I must admit, the pointing out about how he made his first marriage one that he pledged “till death us do part” and now with the 1st still alive (although I do feel badly for him if he really did try as hard as is believed) he’s telling the daughter he wants to make this pledge to her again…maybe ‘until we get too annoyed or tired with each other we part’ might be a little more on the money.

Sorry for the diatribe - I’ve just seen some families implode from Baptists and Catholics debating which way a marriage should go and which faith is ‘right’. It’s kind of like with war -no one believes that God isn’t on their side or that their side isn’t the ‘right’ side.
God Bless
Rye

The point was that he do everything in his capacity to prevent i.e. advice. If that doesn’t work, the OP can only pray.

For him to go and encourage or facilitate the marriage of his daughter would be wrong because the man he wants or facilitating her to marry does not even understand that marriage is indissoluble.

Do you see what I mean?

So even if he did succeed in getting an annulment, we might as well already rule the marriage of his daughter’s to him is invalid as well because that husband doesn’t accept indissolubility.

 

[OurBeloved]

As far as the wifes concept of the marriage (which has been brought up in this thread a few times) I have no idea. Although, evidence would certainly suggest her idea was not one of indesolvability.

Something I mentioned and you might have missed, is that the husband him-self does not have a concept of indissolubility. This makes it very possible that the marriage your daughter and he will contract at some point is also invalid and worthy of an annulment.

So knowing that the husband does not believe in the indissolubility of marriage (he has proven this to you by saying his first was valid and he also validly divorced), would it be right for you to facilitate the ‘marriage’ between your daughter and him? This man is obviously not ready to marry your daughter because he still doesn’t know what marriage entails.

 

[Mijoy2]

Something I mentioned and you might have missed, is that the husband him-self does not have a concept of indissolubility. This makes it very possible that the marriage your daughter and he will contract at some point is also invalid and worthy of an annulment.

So knowing that the husband does not believe in the indissolubility of marriage (he has proven this to you by saying his first was valid and he also validly divorced), would it be right for you to facilitate the ‘marriage’ between your daughter and him? This man is obviously not ready to marry your daughter because he still doesn’t know what marriage entails.

I appreciate this thought. I have met htis man on a few occasions and i find him to be a reasonable man. My forementioned “letter” is also an indepth explaination of this.

 

[OurBeloved]

I appreciate this thought. I have met htis man on a few occasions and i find him to be a reasonable man. My forementioned “letter” is also an indepth explaination of this.

Well I am in no way claiming he is unreasonable. In fact, I am saying that it would be reasonable to say that he believes that indissolubility is false. Hence why he claims that the first marriage was valid and yet he got a divorce and its over.

So the marriage between him and your daughter, if it ever does happen, would be invalid anyway unless you convince him of indissolubility first. The real catch here is that if you do indeed convince him of indissolubility, he will go back to his last wife than marry your daughter anyway.

 

[Mijoy2]

Well I am in no way claiming he is unreasonable. In fact, I am saying that it would be reasonable to say that he believes that indissolubility is false. Hence why he claims that the first marriage was valid and yet he got a divorce and its over.

So the marriage between him and your daughter, if it ever does happen, would be invalid anyway unless you convince him of indissolubility first. The real catch here is that if you do indeed convince him of indissolubility, he will go back to his last wife than marry your daughter anyway.

I think this becomes a deeper question. Indesovability in marriages is a Catholic concept. It is Gods plan but it is not a concept outside the CC. We assume this is because of teaching (or lack thereof) as opposed to a written-on-your-heart sort of thing. Therefore we assume that is a reasonable person were to be properly instructed on this, that they would be enlighteded and see the truth. Here, I think you would agree, all I can do is try.

I choose to be optimistic.

 

[OurBeloved]

I think this becomes a deeper question. Indesovability in marriages is a Catholic concept. It is Gods plan but it is not a concept outside the CC. We assume this is because of teaching (or lack thereof) as opposed to a written-on-your-heart sort of thing. Therefore we assume that is a reasonable person were to be properly instructed on this, that they would be enlighteded and see the truth. Here, I think you would agree, all I can do is try.

I choose to be optimistic.

For a Catholic marriage to be valid, that husband will have to accept indissolubility. If he doesn’t accept it now, what makes you think he will feel any different about your daughter’s marriage to him?

If he is indeed a reasonable person as you say, the first thing you should do is convince him of indissolubility. Not an annulment.

Once he realizes indissolubility, then its time to ask what he is going to do about his current predicament. Then he might choose to get an annulment, which he might not get approval for, or he might just choose to try and work things out with his first wife.

What is kind of consistent in all these cases is that your daughter really needs to stay out of the picture. Even in the best case scenario, she needs to be out of the picture till the annulment is approved (which takes a lot of time in some cases).

So to be honest, I think your daughter, is the one that needs a lot more convincing by you than the husband to first let things go and see the issue.