Chile anniversary rallies turn violent as churches burned, police fire tear gas

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Out of curiosity, I thought I’d check out why the Catholic Church seems to be in difficulties and came across an article from last year’s troubles entitled “Chile is reeling from protests. Where is the Catholic Church?” in America, the Jesuit Review.

I have to say that it did give some context to the current troubles.
 
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Articles in “America, the Jesuit Review” are likely to be just as biased in a leftwing direction as Church Militant is in a rightwing direction. I take both outlets with a grain of salt.

Also, we’re engaged in a war with evil every day whether someone is burning and vandalizing a church or not.
 
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I know it may sound heartless but my first reaction is a laugh!!! Whoever wrote that… don’t they know someone already killed the Nazarene but he is God and he rose from death??? You can try but you can’t kill God!

I do realize however that evil is alive and well and we must fight that or lots of innocents will be killed in this hatred!
 
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Perceiving the nature of the terrain, the opposition and its deployment does tend to be quite important in war.
Yes, you are correct, but the headline seems to indicate that we needed some evidence we were even in a war. A lot of Catholic commentators nowadays seem to always be pointing to such evidence, like their readership base is denying the presence of evil in the world. I realize it’s often just a rhetorical device to get all the “prayer warriors” riled up, but sometimes it feels like the umpteenth pointing out of the obvious.
 
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A lot of Catholic commentators nowadays seem to always be pointing to such evidence, like their readership base is denying the presence of evil in the world.
Having more time to myself over the past few months, amongst other things, I’ve been reading quite a bit about the Spanish Civil war (I tend to the view the whole era in Spain was one where whenever people on all sides- there were several ‘sides’- could choose the worst possible option, they did so).

When it came to the Church, prior to the War, the focus on the half of Spain that “ate but did not work” (where it felt at home) as opposed to the half of Spain that “worked but did not eat” (particularly the industrial workers who seemed quite alien) had led to what might be described as the massed apostacy of the latter.

So, the Church backed a War against ‘Evil’, they were rewarded with a major rôle in things like education for having done so by Franco, who went on to patronise Church leaders unmercifully (reasons to be pleased balanced by reasons to seethe). This lasted for nearly 40 years.

Now, of the two-thirds of the population who identify as Catholic, something like an eighth attend Church regularly.

Tricky thing ‘evil’.
 
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I’m not really sure how you pointing out the alleged failings of the Church relates to my point.

Nowhere did I say that Catholics don’t sometimes contribute in some manner to “evil”.

It is indeed tricky because we usually get a biased perspective based on the background and experiences of the person describing it.

I could discuss more about the Spanish Civil War, but it is off topic for the thread, I have somewhere else to go right now, and I’m not interested in engaging with you or anyone else on that topic.
But especially not with someone who is rushing with enthusiasm to point out the alleged sins of the Church on a Catholic forum (like we somehow go around denying that too because we’re believers?) . Agendas, agendas.

Have a nice day.
 
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On the issue of CIA involvement in the 1973 coup, the CIA document is equally explicit:
On 10 September 1973 – the day before the coup that ended the Allende government – a Chilean military officer reported to a CIA officer that a coup was being planned and asked for US government assistance. He was told that the US Government would not provide any assistance because this was strictly an internal Chilean matter. The Station Officer also told him his request would be forwarded to Washington. CIA learned of the exact date of the coup shortly before it took place. During the attack on the Presidential Palace and its immediate aftermath, the Station’s activities were limited to providing intelligence and situation reports.[35]
The Church report also considered the allegation that the US government involved itself in the 1973 coup:

Was the United States DIRECTLY involved, covertly, in the 1973 coup in Chile? The Committee has found no evidence that it was.[36]

There is no hard evidence of direct U.S. assistance to the coup, despite frequent allegations of such aid. Rather the United States - by its previous actions during Track II, its existing general posture of opposition to Allende, and the nature of its contacts with the Chilean military- probably gave the impression that it would not look with disfavor on a military coup. And U.S. officials in the years before 1973 may not always have succeeded in walking the thin line between monitoring indigenous coup plotting and actually stimulating it.[36]
US no coup involvement.
 
Pinochet may have been unsavory, but what about the big picture? Does the US and Canada and the UK sell arms to Saudi Arabia? Aid Egypt? These are heavy handed regimes too.




Side note, I knew this incident happened. I’ll just add this in.


How about Brazil? One can speak of Bolsonaro, there were abuses under his predecessor, Lula, by the police and army. Lula is very much thought of being socialist leaning. Duterte in the Philippines and the list goes on.
Castro killed at least as many Cubans as Pinochet did Chileans. Pinochet’s government has been justly condemned for engaging in some terrorist activities abroad, from Argentina to the United States. Amnesty International strongly supported the Chilean leader’s extradition to Spain in 1998 for a trial it thought would enact justice. But Castro trained thousands of guerrillas from countries all over the world and sent hundreds of thousands of Cuban troops to many countries on at least three continents to launch and wage wars that brought untold death and destruction. We can’t recall human rights organizations agitating for his extradition, or for his being brought to justice even posthumously in Cuba. Finally, Chile is the most successful case of economic, social, and political development in Latin America and a pioneer in the global shift to enlightened social capitalism. Cuba is a dismal, impoverished, dynastic totalitarian anachronism.
 
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I followed these riots?? What a year ago I believe, I think they say they celebrated a year anniversary.

In this case, I think it’s an “unorganized mob” who write things like that. In turn, I think the mobs are influenced by foreigners, probably the Cubans at that.

But it’s like BLM, I’m sure they have many protesters with good intentions but doing things like tearing down a statue of Abraham Lincoln is just vandalism.
 
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Evil indeed. Given the recent history of abuse and coverup in the Chilean Church, this is hardly surprising.

A case of reaping what one sowed.

There’s a reason Pope Francis accepted the resignations of all Chilean bishops over the sex abuse scandal.
 
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It does change/develop though - the Church in Spain ‘won’ (against ‘anarchy’ and ‘atheistic Communism’) while the Church in Poland ‘lost’ (5 years of the Nazis, four decades of ‘atheistic Communism’), the former has depleted influence, the latter retains enormous influence.

I wonder why that might be? I expect such questions could be thought anti-Catholic.
 
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Articles in “America, the Jesuit Review” are likely to be just as biased in a leftwing direction as Church Militant is in a rightwing direction. I take both outlets with a grain of salt.

Also, we’re engaged in a war with evil every day whether someone is burning and vandalizing a church or not.
America may have a slight bias but it in NO way compares to ChurchMillitant.

It’s apples and oranges.
 
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“Written on the wall of a burned and looted church in Santiago Chile. This shows that we are all engaged in a worldwide spiritual war with Evil at this moment and must chose our side”

Out of curiosity, has there ever been a moment in which the church wasn’t in a spiritual war with evil?
 
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Out of curiosity, has there ever been a moment in which the church wasn’t in a spiritual war with evil?
Not since the Fall, and as then, the choices we make will lead to consequences.
 
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My favourite thing about Pinochet is that his government kidnapped babies from poor families to sell them to wealthy western families. He was just a stooge of western capitalists, an absolute degenerate.
I will take “Stuff That Never Happened” for $500.
“I’m tired of woke corporations cancelling people. We need paramilitaries to cancel people instead!”
Dang right.
 
Even CNN has the honesty to use the word “allegedly” in the link to their hitpiece. No actual numbers, just personal anecdotes of dubious veracity.
That is how a lot of atrocities get out, and the use of the word “allegedly” does not invalidate it. You can play the role of negationist if you want though, that’s what I expect of your type.

Honestly Pinochet is not in anyway an admirable figure. Franco snatched babies but he wasn’t so much of a stooge of American and British imperialism, which Pinochet very much was, and at least he snatched babies for reasons that are more outwardly political. The Chilean government was just practicing population control and wanted to make a quick buck.
Not amorphous people, communists and their sympathizers. Knowing commies do when they take over, I find it hard to muster sympathy for them.
I doubt every victim of Pinochet’s government was a communist.

Out of interest, were you raised Catholic, or are you a convert?
 
Catholic revert, not that it matters. Were you raised communist or did you become one later?
 
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