Chile rejects pardons proposed by Catholic Church

[Holly3278]

SANTIAGO, Chile – Chile’s conservative president rejected a proposal by the Roman Catholic Church for sweeping pardons of elderly and sick prisoners that would have freed military officers convicted of human rights violations during the Pinochet dictatorship.

             President Sebastian Pinera announced Sunday that he  will only consider case-by-case pardons on humanitarian grounds and that  serious offenses related to crimes against humanity, terrorism or drug  trafficking will not be considered.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100725/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_chile_pardons

 

[JackVk]

Will God still forgive them? It’s the thought that counts, isn’t it?

 

[Holly3278]

Will God still forgive them? It’s the thought that counts, isn’t it?

I am pretty sure that God will forgive them if they have perfect contrition or if they have imperfect contrition and confess to a priest.

 

[Adeodatus]

It’s too bad. I’m not saying that they never did anything bad, but they were fighting for the soul of their nation against the vile corruption of Communism. It was a tough time all around. I used to not think so, but nowadays I’d be inclined to cut them some slack.

 

[Holly3278]

It’s too bad. I’m not saying that they never did anything bad, but they were fighting for the soul of their nation against the vile corruption of Communism. It was a tough time all around. I used to not think so, but nowadays I’d be inclined to cut them some slack.

I agree. The fact that they were fighting against an evil government to me is enough reason to at least cut them a little slack. Not that what they did wasn’t wrong in some way or another but still, they were fighting against an evil government.

 

[Brickmaker]

It’s too bad. I’m not saying that they never did anything bad, but they were fighting for the soul of their nation against the vile corruption of Communism. It was a tough time all around. I used to not think so, but nowadays I’d be inclined to cut them some slack.

So doing evil to fight evil is somehow less reprehensible than just doing evil?

Satan cannot drive out Satan.

 

[Holly3278]

So doing evil to fight evil is somehow less reprehensible than just doing evil?

Satan cannot drive out Satan.

You have a good point. But I think the point the other poster was trying to make is that it was a difficult time and sometimes when there are difficult times, people resort to difficult measures regardless of how wrong they may be.

 

[Brickmaker]

You have a good point. But I think the point the other poster was trying to make is that it was a difficult time and sometimes when there are difficult times, people resort to difficult measures regardless of how wrong they may be.

The same rationale could be applied to abortion.

 

[Holly3278]

The same rationale could be applied to abortion.

I understand this and I am not saying that what these people did was right. As I said, difficult times sometimes causes people to resort to desperate measures,** no matter how wrong they may be.**

 

[Brickmaker]

I understand this and I am not saying that what these people did was right. As I said, difficult times sometimes causes people to resort to desperate measures,** no matter how wrong they may be.**

And what I’m saying is that what thse people did was evil, pure and simple, no excuses for ‘difficult times’. They overthrew a democratically elected government (no matter how odious), set up a brutal military dictatorship which ‘disappeared’ thousands of Chileans, tortured and detained thousands more, took children from their parents and gave them to military couples to raise as their own - to give just a flavor of what they did. And the Chilean Church didn’t exactly object to any of this either.

There is a reason why they’re in prison. What they did would mean at least a life sentence without parole (they could legitimately have been executed). This is a matter for the Chilean government. The Church should take its own advice and render to Caesar.

 

[OriginalJS]

My first reaction is that the Church should stick to the spiritual and leave the temporal alone. My second reaction is a question, why should society have to pay to keep these now harmless criminals in jail? Isn’t there some way to mark them and make them lead what the Chinese communists referred to as a “ridiculous life.” Maybe shaving scalps and dyeing their heads purple every month or so; or making them wear sackcloth and ashes with no admittance to public accommodations. There has to be a better way than pounding money down this rathole of incarceration.

 

[Adeodatus]

And what I’m saying is that what thse people did was evil, pure and simple, no excuses for ‘difficult times’. They overthrew a democratically elected government (no matter how odious), set up a brutal military dictatorship which ‘disappeared’ thousands of Chileans, tortured and detained thousands more, took children from their parents and gave them to military couples to raise as their own - to give just a flavor of what they did. And the Chilean Church didn’t exactly object to any of this either.

There is a reason why they’re in prison. What they did would mean at least a life sentence without parole (they could legitimately have been executed). This is a matter for the Chilean government. The Church should take its own advice and render to Caesar.

Overthrowing a democratically elected government is not necessarily evil, if that government is gravely evil (as the Allende regime was; Hitler was elected too). There’s nothing evil about having a military dictatorship, either.

Sorry but the first part of this is reading like a Socialist propaganda screed. When you start out by calling the ouster of a Communist regime and the establishment of a right wing polity “pure and simple” evil then that doesn’t exactly lend a lot of credibility to the rest of your charges.

Look, if you buy into the fetishism of democracy and the basic premises of the Socialist International (or Amnesty International, for that matter) then I think your conclusions will inevitably skew toward the Reds.

Like I said, these guys were trying to preserve the soul of their nation. You only have to look around you, to the persecution of all expressions of Christianity in public life, to the regime of homosexualists enforcing a gay cultural orthodoxy, to the Sexual Revolution… to see what they were trying to prevent.

Not far from where I live, you can drive down the highway and on your left see an Atheist billboard, and then on your right see a XXX sign for a pornographic media store. How many souls have these two things combined sent to Hell? Contemplate the eternal torment those poor souls are suffering. Did anybody ever suffer anything that bad under the Pinochet regime?

Sometimes, people need a bitter medicine lest they die of a dreadful sickness.

 

[Brickmaker]

Overthrowing a democratically elected government is not necessarily evil, if that government is gravely evil (as the Allende regime was; Hitler was elected too). There’s nothing evil about having a military dictatorship, either. Hitler may have been elected but that is not how he achieved power. And to say that Allende’s government was ‘gravely evil’ is just your opinion. Politically, it would not be to my liking, its social and economic policies were reprehensible IMO, but then so are those of our ally Saudi Arabia. Is the government of Saudi Arabia ‘gravely evil’ and if so why are they US allies? Why aren’t we actively working to overthrow them as we did in Chile?

Sorry but the first part of this is reading like a Socialist propaganda screed. When you start out by calling the ouster of a Communist regime and the establishment of a right wing polity “pure and simple” evil then that doesn’t exactly lend a lot of credibility to the rest of your charges. What these prisoners did WAS evil. Pure and simple. Twist it any way you wish but these men murdered and tortured thousands of Chileans. That’s why they are prisoners.

Look, if you buy into the fetishism of democracy and the basic premises of the Socialist International (or Amnesty International, for that matter) then I think your conclusions will inevitably skew toward the Reds. What I buy into is that murder is murder and torture is torture. No excuses, no ‘difficult times’, If that ‘skews me towards the Reds’ in your opinion then that’s your problem, not mine.

Like I said, these guys were trying to preserve the soul of their nation. And by what they did they actually DESTROYED the soul of their nation, leaving a legacy of bitterness, injustice and corruption that continues to blight Chilean society. You only have to look around you, to the persecution of all expressions of Christianity in public life, to the regime of homosexualists enforcing a gay cultural orthodoxy, to the Sexual Revolution… to see what they were trying to prevent.Oh puleese, get a grip. You honestly think that these murderers and torturers had any of these things in mind as they tossed people alive from helicopters?

Not far from where I live, you can drive down the highway and on your left see an Atheist billboard, and then on your right see a XXX sign for a pornographic media store. How many souls have these two things combined sent to Hell? Contemplate the eternal torment those poor souls are suffering. Did anybody ever suffer anything that bad under the Pinochet regime? Well, as many thousands were dispatched without an opportunity to make their peace with God, I’d say that the Pinochet regime was even more guilty of sending people to Hell than your atheist billboard and porn store ad.

Sometimes, people need a bitter medicine lest they die of a dreadful sickness.And mostly people need to be treated as people, responsible for their own actions.

 

[Holly3278]

And what I’m saying is that what thse people did was evil, pure and simple, no excuses for ‘difficult times’. They overthrew a democratically elected government (no matter how odious), set up a brutal military dictatorship which ‘disappeared’ thousands of Chileans, tortured and detained thousands more, took children from their parents and gave them to military couples to raise as their own - to give just a flavor of what they did. And the Chilean Church didn’t exactly object to any of this either.

There is a reason why they’re in prison. What they did would mean at least a life sentence without parole (they could legitimately have been executed). This is a matter for the Chilean government. The Church should take its own advice and render to Caesar.

I was not giving excuses though. I was stating the obvious.