Chinese Deal: Good or Bad?

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What are your thoughts about the Vatican’s deal with China?
 
It is a good thing to have diplomatic relation as a conduit of communication between two governments.
 
IMHO it is horrendous and a slap in the face of all the Faithful who have, and continue to suffer for the Faith in China.
 
I trust what the Holy See decides. This kind of issue is above my pay grade.
 
I think it’s an abomination that the Vatican is even talking to the Chinese about this: they set up the Chinese Patriotic Catholic association as an attempt to replace the Catholic church. The CPCA is not the Catholic Church. How they can even consider this is beyond craziness.
 
The puppet Church in Beijing doesn’t even respect the Church’s teachings on abortion, property, and human dignity. They should be excommunicated.
 
How is it that laymen with little or no insight into the complexities of this issue can cast dispersion on the Holy See.
It’s not your place.
 
I’m just saying that there was a lot more that we could’ve gotten.
 
I do not know the real story or the inside information which we are not privy of. But how? How are we able to get more?

The Vatican has no diplomatic relation with China for more than sixty years. What has we got now? How many Catholics are there among the 1.4 billion Chinese?

If we can force the Chinese to capitulate, that would be the best. If not, the Vatican still has to find a way to have some working relationship with them. The Holy Father can start from there rather than persisting with being undeground and outlawed, where our clergy are persecuted and some even killed.

The Chinese government is not going away any time soon unlike the USSR. They are shrewd enough to hold together the government and develop the country. Today China is far more advanced than it was twenty years ago. So their government is quite stable.

But where that leaves the Catholic Church? We are only losing out if we stay outlawed and underground in China. They have the upper hand, not us. Our clergy there probably shouldn’t interfere with the state too much and antagonizing the government but should focus more on the faith. Let the Church be Church and the state, state.

The Vatican needs to work with them.

Just my two cents.
 
That is not true. Look at how fast Christianity grew under Rome’s persecution. It can be done. And the Chinese puppet Church is incompatible with Catholicism: support of abortion, contraception, and supporting Marxist thought! That is not the Church! That is everything which the Church fights! The communists must not subvert the Church.
 
Are any of these commie bishops even christian? I mean, what if the early church fathers decided to ‘cut a deal’ with Emperor Nero?
 
Another problem. Doesn’t this contradict the Church’s Decree Against Communism?
 
In truth, the early Church would have been content to receive the same treatment from Rome as was given to the Jews: freedom to practice their religion and exemption from all duties pertaining to Roman religion, in exchange for praying to YHWH on behalf of the emperor. Rome, however, refused to be reasoned with in this manner, though many Roman officials were content to ignore the Church.
 
I am not sure if we can compare the early Church with the China situation. For obvious reason, I would not disclose who have been working underground. One thing fir sure, there’s no headway for them. Our missionary priests have to live incognito, not even saying mass. Can you imagine that. At least the early Christians could hide and had mass. Not our foriegn clergy in China. They do that at the risk of being expelled from the country. And that do not help our Catholics there.

Visiting priests would have a huge file on their names in the secret police department. The minute they do function in their priestly duty they would be deported or worst still disappear somewhere in hidden jails.

Perhaps the minimum we can ask for if for our priests to do what they should do - saying mass and serve the parish. They cannot do that at the moment.

The Church does not have to agree with Communism, … only that they can practice as Catholics.
 
And for more than sixty years, unlike the early Christians, the underground Church in China is simply not growing albeit their perseverance.

The Church has to be smart and to take advantage of diplomacy that is available today
 
The real battle is evangelisation. The chinese government doesn’t care about theology and exactly what you believe. You just need to behave according to the rules. But some prominent people are getting too bogged down in the Bishop appointment issue. I wish they spend more time thinking about how best to evangelise more effectively to the average Chinese rather than picking a fight with the government.
 
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