Choir director living active gay lifestyle

[Jack17]

Wasn’t Michaelangelo known to be a homosexual? Many homosexual men seem to excel in the arts. Didn’t he paint the Sistine Chapel?

That’s a steriotype and orientation has nothing to do with being creative and artful.

I don’t know if he was but Leonardo and others were straight.

 

[wannabemedic]

Don’t bother with the Bishop as that letter goes straight back to the Priest.

I once called my priest’s attention to money that was going missing from a club.

I was told to let it be. So I wrote to the Bishop, who copied my letter to the ‘club’ and the ‘priest’ and I was then alienated.

Thank goodness it was just money issues being covered up and not child abuse.

Frankly after this I can see how child abuse was covered-up. Covering up seems to be one of the skills of our ‘Bishops’.

I would be lying if I said this hasn’t shaken my faith to the core. I can’t even go to Mass and I’m sure as hell not going to drive another 30 miles just to get to the next parish.

 

[saint143]

Don’t bother with the Bishop as that letter goes straight back to the Priest.

I once called my priest’s attention to money that was going missing from a club.

I was told to let it be. So I wrote to the Bishop, who copied my letter to the ‘club’ and the ‘priest’ and I was then alienated.

Thank goodness it was just money issues being covered up and not child abuse.

Frankly after this I can see how child abuse was covered-up. Covering up seems to be one of the skills of our ‘Bishops’.

I would be lying if I said this hasn’t shaken my faith to the core. I can’t even go to Mass and I’m sure as hell not going to drive another 30 miles just to get to the next parish.

You have integrity and a clear conscience. Go back to Church, hold your head up. Focus solely on Him. Be patient, months may pass. God works everything for the good for those who love him. Look at the cross…look what they did to Him. After much time in prayer and the Word, you will receive insight about this and grow in strength. Peace be with you.

 

[cargau]

Our priest hired a new organist and choir director a few weeks ago. I discovered that he is a homosexual living an active gay lifestyle. He has been first in line everyweek to receive the Eucharist. I spoke to the Father about it in privately. He called me and told me that he told him to stop receiving and keep a lower profile. I’m seeking wise council.

Whenever I read a post like this, I think of the story of the prostitute caught in the act of commiting adultery. Jesus said, “Let him without sin cast the first stone”.

I agree that a person guilty of serious sin should not receive our Lord in the Eucharist. At the same time, I am not sure who made you the Eucharist police. I believe that our dear Lord is entirely capable of taking care of Himself. This is really a matter for the pastor to manage. It is entirely possible the pastor did not know of the director’s lifestyle. And, it is possible that the director may not know that he is guilty of serious sin.

If you are in the choir and you know this man well, perhaps you could speak to him privately. That would be a work of charity. In the meantime, pray for him. Ask God to touch his heart and heal him. That seems like a much better way to love thy neighbor.

 

[rpp]

Whenever I read a post like this, I think of the story of the prostitute caught in the act of commiting adultery. Jesus said, “Let him without sin cast the first stone”.

I agree that a person guilty of serious sin should not receive our Lord in the Eucharist. At the same time, I am not sure who made you the Eucharist police. I believe that our dear Lord is entirely capable of taking care of Himself. This is really a matter for the pastor to manage. It is entirely possible the pastor did not know of the director’s lifestyle. And, it is possible that the director may not know that he is guilty of serious sin.

If you are in the choir and you know this man well, perhaps you could speak to him privately. That would be a work of charity. In the meantime, pray for him. Ask God to touch his heart and heal him. That seems like a much better way to love thy neighbor.

Whenever I read a post like this, I often think of the word in Ezekiel 3:17-21 where we are required to point out the sin in another and the words of St. Paul in I Corintians 11:27-34 where he reminds us that we must not receive Holy Communion if we are not worthy. Thus making all of us, “Eucharist police” as we would not want our neighbor to endanger their soul by receiving when they are not worthy.

 

[cargau]

Whenever I read a post like this, I often think of the word in Ezekiel 3:17-21 where we are required to point out the sin in another and the words of St. Paul in I Corintians 11:27-34 where he reminds us that we must not receive Holy Communion if we are not worthy. Thus making all of us, “Eucharist police” as we would not want our neighbor to endanger their soul by receiving when they are not worthy.

You undoubtedly have a great love for the Eucharist, as I do. I have struggled with the “appropriate” response to a sinner that may be guilty of the sin of sacrilege by receiving our Lord while publically committing grave sin.

There is no doubt in my mind that receiving our Lord in the state of Mortal sin is in itself a serious offense. I do not argue the point. Nor do I try to defend the director’s actions as somehow being OK. They are not. It is the response to these circumstances that I challenge. I find the OP’s tactics to be presumptious and lacking in humility. He is not a person of church authority and yet he takes it upon himself to run to the pastor with the charges rather than speaking directly with the music director.

It is a work of mercy to correct the sinner, not run and tell the pastor. Perhaps if this is presented in a positive, helpful way instead of getting ratted on, the sinner may be more receptive to a conversion of heart.

Let’s realize that we are all weak and in need of God’s mercy. Let’s love our neighbor by helping him (or her), not trying to get them in trouble. And finally, pray for him so that the Holy Spirit may do His work

 

[saint143]

I find the OP’s tactics to be presumptious and lacking in humility. He is not a person of church authority and yet he takes it upon himself to run to the pastor with the charges rather than speaking directly with the music director.

1 Corinthians 13:1

1. If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[pnewton]

I find the OP’s tactics to be presumptious and lacking in humility. He is not a person of church authority and yet he takes it upon himself to run to the pastor with the charges rather than speaking directly with the music director.

Lacking humility? He came here asking for advice.

I do not know the situation, but if an active homosexual is knowlingly allowed communion by a priest, that is an abuse. A lay person is not presumptious, but rather empowered to approach the priest first on this, then the bishop or even the Vatican. (Redemptionis Sacramentum). We must mainaint the highest honor to accord the Holy Eucharist. To say that the “Lord can take care of himself” misses the point of the holy and sacred.

The homosexual person introduced his partner. Would a drug addict introduce his dealer, or a pedophile his child victim? He was kissing his partner at a political rally. This is scandal. The OP was totally correct in informing his pastor so he would be prepared to protect the flock assigned to his care.

 

[rpp]

Lacking humility? He came here asking for advice.

I do not know the situation, but if an active homosexual is knowlingly allowed communion by a priest, that is an abuse. A lay person is not presumptious, but rather empowered to approach the priest first on this, then the bishop or even the Vatican. (Redemptionis Sacramentum). We must mainaint the highest honor to accord the Holy Eucharist. To say that the “Lord can take care of himself” misses the point of the holy and sacred.

The homosexual person introduced his partner. Would a drug addict introduce his dealer, or a pedophile his child victim? He was kissing his partner at a political rally. This is scandal. The OP was totally correct in informing his pastor so he would be prepared to protect the flock assigned to his care.

Quite right. Well said.

 

[saint143]

The homosexual person introduced his partner. Would a drug addict introduce his dealer, or a pedophile his child victim? He was kissing his partner at a political rally. This is scandal. The OP was totally correct in informing his pastor so he would be prepared to protect the flock assigned to his care.

Thank you pnewton and rpp. You lift up my heart. The Lord be with you always.

 

[cargau]

Lacking humility? He came here asking for advice.

I do not know the situation, but if an active homosexual is knowlingly allowed communion by a priest, that is an abuse. A lay person is not presumptious, but rather empowered to approach the priest first on this, then the bishop or even the Vatican. (Redemptionis Sacramentum). We must mainaint the highest honor to accord the Holy Eucharist. To say that the “Lord can take care of himself” misses the point of the holy and sacred.

The homosexual person introduced his partner. Would a drug addict introduce his dealer, or a pedophile his child victim? He was kissing his partner at a political rally. This is scandal. The OP was totally correct in informing his pastor so he would be prepared to protect the flock assigned to his care.

I never condoned the music director’s actions. Nor did I say that prudent action was not warranted. I do believe, however, that while we all should assist each other to become holier, going to the priest as an immediate reaction seems a bit heavy.

I just think that we, as grown ups ought to be more judicious in how we approach such matters. It would seem to create a barrier to spiritual growth by initiating hostilities. The OP acknowledged the cold treatment he received after the the priest had spoken to the director. Couldn’t that have been handled better? I think so. Further, if going to the pastor was necessary, it should be out of concern for the state of the director’s soul and it should be determined how the director can be brought into fuller communion. It sounded like the focus was on punishing the director and not aiding him.

What if every parishioner went to parish priest complaining about someone’s sin? Our church would be chaos!

 

[pnewton]

I never condoned the music director’s actions. Nor did I say that prudent action was not warranted. I do believe, however, that while we all should assist each other to become holier, going to the priest as an immediate reaction seems a bit heavy.

Yes, I can see where asking the director first, if it could have been done in a loving way, would have its benefits. Then one would need the extra measure of fortitude to let him know that the priest needed to be aware of the situation. If the relationship was the right type. It could have worked.

However, the director’s soul is not the only one at stake. Yes, all action and discpline in particular is aimed at redemption. Yet, the safety of the sheep must also be considered. Leave the ninety-nine to go seek the one, but also see to their safety. That is why the priest needed to know.

 

[saint143]

Did you read post #68 ? Tell me what you think after you click on that link.

 

[rpp]

I never condoned the music director’s actions. Nor did I say that prudent action was not warranted. I do believe, however, that while we all should assist each other to become holier, going to the priest as an immediate reaction seems a bit heavy.

I just think that we, as grown ups ought to be more judicious in how we approach such matters. It would seem to create a barrier to spiritual growth by initiating hostilities. The OP acknowledged the cold treatment he received after the the priest had spoken to the director. Couldn’t that have been handled better? I think so. Further, if going to the pastor was necessary, it should be out of concern for the state of the director’s soul and it should be determined how the director can be brought into fuller communion. It sounded like the focus was on punishing the director and not aiding him.

I think it depends on the person and the situation. Some people are not terribly good about confrontations, others are better. However, based on what the OP posted, it would seem to me that discussing this directly with the choir director would have been pointless. Clearly the man is unrepentant and is not going to stop.

If the OP were to approach him privately and say, “Since, by all appearances you appear to be living an active homosexual lifestyle, and homosexual activity is gravely sinful, you should not receive Holy Communion until you stop, repent and confess. In addition, you step down as choice director until such time as well.” Somehow, I don’t that would get anywhere. The choir director would dismiss it out of hand and probably accuse the OP of being a bigot rather than someone who is, in fact, the exact opposite.

On the other hand, hearing words like that from a priest actually carry weight. The priest can counsel the choir director and explain to him about the grave duty we take on when we get into line to recieve Holy Communion with the intent to recieve. As we walk to the front of the Church, we should all be doing an examination of conscience.

What if every parishioner went to parish priest complaining about someone’s sin? Our church would be chaos!

It is not about sin. It is about the appearance of grave sin in public being committed by a person serving a very visible and important role for the parish. It is about the grave sin of Scandal. If people actually did this more often, and if priests and bishops actually responded, perhaps the sex abuse scandal in the Church would not have been so bad and many of those victims would have retained their innocence.

Nope, the OP did the right thing. Though I can understand why you might be a bit uncomfortable. While it does seem a bit like tattling, you must also remember tha gossip, which is fed by scandal, is also a sin.

 

[cargau]

I think it depends on the person and the situation. Some people are not terribly good about confrontations, others are better. However, based on what the OP posted, it would seem to me that discussing this directly with the choir director would have been pointless. Clearly the man is unrepentant and is not going to stop.

If the OP were to approach him privately and say, “Since, by all appearances you appear to be living an active homosexual lifestyle, and homosexual activity is gravely sinful, you should not receive Holy Communion until you stop, repent and confess. In addition, you step down as choice director until such time as well.” Somehow, I don’t that would get anywhere. The choir director would dismiss it out of hand and probably accuse the OP of being a bigot rather than someone who is, in fact, the exact opposite.

On the other hand, hearing words like that from a priest actually carry weight. The priest can counsel the choir director and explain to him about the grave duty we take on when we get into line to recieve Holy Communion with the intent to recieve. As we walk to the front of the Church, we should all be doing an examination of conscience.

It is not about sin. It is about the appearance of grave sin in public being committed by a person serving a very visible and important role for the parish. It is about the grave sin of Scandal. If people actually did this more often, and if priests and bishops actually responded, perhaps the sex abuse scandal in the Church would not have been so bad and many of those victims would have retained their innocence.

Nope, the OP did the right thing. Though I can understand why you might be a bit uncomfortable. While it does seem a bit like tattling, you must also remember tha gossip, which is fed by scandal, is also a sin.

Reading your post, I must say that you make a valid point. Perhaps, it was prudent notifying the pastor.

I am always concerned with aiding people in times of spiritual crises. I fear that sometimes people may feel ostricized and rejected instead of feeling supported. Reading the OP’s post, it hit me as being a bit harsh. But, having read your post and some of the others it occurs to me that sometimes it is good to knock some people off the proverbial horse. Especially when there is the possibility that the motives of the pastor may be scrutinized.

The point you made about causing scandal is, indeed well stated. The Church must never give the appearance of condoning the behavior embraced by the music director.

Thank you for providing me with another slant. It just goes to show that we are all growing on this journey.

God bless you.

 

[saint143]

Reading your post, I must say that you make a valid point. Perhaps, it was prudent notifying the pastor.

I am always concerned with aiding people in times of spiritual crises. I fear that sometimes people may feel ostricized and rejected instead of feeling supported. Reading the OP’s post, it hit me as being a bit harsh. But, having read your post and some of the others it occurs to me that sometimes it is good to knock some people off the proverbial horse. Especially when there is the possibility that the motives of the pastor may be scrutinized.

The point you made about causing scandal is, indeed well stated. The Church must never give the appearance of condoning the behavior embraced by the music director.

Thank you for providing me with another slant. It just goes to show that we are all growing on this journey.

God bless you.

You are very gracious. I should have realized that you were unaware. It is right and good to help a sister or brother in need. I’m usually pretty quick to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I’m sorry. I’m too aware of how many times I have offended our Lord. With everything in me I pray I would never offend Him again and yet how I fail miserably at times. He is full of compassion and mercy, praise God, praise His Holy name. Please pray for my Church, that she will be delivered from anything that would try to harm her.

Peace be with you!

 

[rpp]

Reading your post, I must say that you make a valid point. Perhaps, it was prudent notifying the pastor.

I am always concerned with aiding people in times of spiritual crises. I fear that sometimes people may feel ostricized and rejected instead of feeling supported. Reading the OP’s post, it hit me as being a bit harsh. But, having read your post and some of the others it occurs to me that sometimes it is good to knock some people off the proverbial horse. Especially when there is the possibility that the motives of the pastor may be scrutinized.

The point you made about causing scandal is, indeed well stated. The Church must never give the appearance of condoning the behavior embraced by the music director.

Thank you for providing me with another slant. It just goes to show that we are all growing on this journey.

God bless you.

I appreciate your graciousness and humility which this post exemplifies. Thank you for being open to other differing perspectives.

I will also admist that I understand your earlier concerns and believe that in many cases, your suggestions may be a better way.

God bless you.

 

[Trad_Julia]

Admittedly, I’ve not read every post in this thread, but I’ve been left wondering if the choir director in question is aware of exactly why his lifestyle is sinful? If the situation were in my hands, I’d have asked his views first, then explained why the Church promilgates what She does, ending with the suggestion that he might wish to go to confession after performing these acts etc. Simply going to the priest on information and suspicions of what one has heard or seen strikes me as incredibly disrespectful, and a tad spiteful, too. This man deserves to be heard out, not immediately written off as a degenerate, to have his choir practice abandoned without much notice, and so-on. Allow him the dignity to come to the priest after being spoken to, not lectured at and severely judged, privately by one concerned.

 

[rpp]

Admittedly, I’ve not read every post in this thread, but I’ve been left wondering if the choir director in question is aware of exactly why his lifestyle is sinful? If the situation were in my hands, I’d have asked his views first, then explained why the Church promilgates what She does, ending with the suggestion that he might wish to go to confession after performing these acts etc. Simply going to the priest on information and suspicions of what one has heard or seen strikes me as incredibly disrespectful, and a tad spiteful, too. This man deserves to be heard out, not immediately written off as a degenerate, to have his choir practice abandoned without much notice, and so-on. Allow him the dignity to come to the priest after being spoken to, not lectured at and severely judged, privately by one concerned.

Perhaps you should read more of this thread, particularly the last dozen or so posts… The minds of some were changed.

 

[Trad_Julia]

Lacking humility? He came here asking for advice.

I do not know the situation, but if an active homosexual is knowlingly allowed communion by a priest, that is an abuse. A lay person is not presumptious, but rather empowered to approach the priest first on this, then the bishop or even the Vatican. (Redemptionis Sacramentum). We must mainaint the highest honor to accord the Holy Eucharist. To say that the “Lord can take care of himself” misses the point of the holy and sacred.

The homosexual person introduced his partner. Would a drug addict introduce his dealer, or a pedophile his child victim? He was kissing his partner at a political rally. This is scandal. The OP was totally correct in informing his pastor so he would be prepared to protect the flock assigned to his care.

Oh my, to what great lengths some will go to justify rudeness. Do some here truly believe that the homosexual will infect the congregation with his unnatural disorder? He chose to express it at a rally where it is sanctioned, a place which should be no concern of this church so long as he does not engage in immoral acts within its grounds. That’s crossing a line into job discrimination based on fear and superstition in my book.
Also, one cannot presume to call it seeking council after the deed has been done, IMO. One seeks validation, perhaps, but if one truly wanted wise council, the OP might have posted his dilemma before he attempted to resolve it in such an uncharitable fashion.
Keep in mind that I come from an Episcopalian background, (I work at a church which has in recent memory had both a homosexual priest and choir director, the latter is still here, so this is a hot-button issue for me.) As such, I’m used to the idea of being taught the reasons for my faults being wrong, not simply condemned and refused privileges because I happen to possess said flaws.