Choir Members not Reading Music

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I’ve heard from several people about how many people in their choir can’t read music. Is that standard throughout the US?

Isn’t the ability to read music assumed when you join a choir?
 
TheMc said:
I’ve heard from several people about how many people in their choir can’t read music. Is that standard throughout the US?

Isn’t the ability to read music assumed when you join a choir?
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It depends on the choir. Choirs that learn by rote like Gospel Choirs and some folk choirs may not require that one knows how to read music.

More conservative choirs that use liturgical/classical music usually require that you can at least read music somewhat.

If a choir needs volunteers badly, the requirements won’t be as stringent.
 
It is fairly common here. I was also pretty surprised when I discovered this. It seems that pretty much anyone who volunteers is allowed in, so we have quite a variety of people, from super talented to those who just kind of follow along. I do like the fact that it isn’t competitive in any way, but it does get kind of frustrating when we have to go over basic musical notation, like repeats and second endings over and over again. 🤷
 
It’s been that way in most parishes that take anyone who volunteers. You have to know that there are places where music isn’t taught in school so unless parents can afford private lessons for their kids, they won’t learn to read music. The only reason I can read a little bit is because I learned with my own kids when they were in school.

I grew up in a household where Mom and my brothers sang, played piano, guitar, accordion but all by ear. One brother even composed, but couldn’t write down what he’d composed. The only people I knew in our village who could read music were the priest’s housekeeper and the organist at Church.
 
Yep. I can sing so people tell me. I used to take lessons, but can’t read music. I know about following the notes up and down the scale and basics like quarter notes or whatever. But I learn by hearing the song over and over then singing it. Should I learn to read music? Absolutely.
 
Some of the best cantors and choir members I know are not the best music readers. A pleasant voice, good timing, the ability to stay on pitch and to blend with others… All of these are important and may be more important than the ability to read music.

I think most choir members have some rudimentary knowledge of music notation. But unless they are professionals (and by that I mean paid) it’s not so likely that they can sight read music.
 
I tried for the choir in my university parish. Reading music was never mentioned as a prerequisite.

It wouldn’t have been needed, as they sang along with the instruments. Those who played them presumably read music.

ICXC NIKA.
 
There are plenty of people who sing at my church who don’t read music. I inherited the group, so I work with them the best I can. It can be rather annoying at times, but eventually they do pick up everything just by listening. So, essential to read music? No, but it sure is helpful.
 
In the choir I’m in at church, only the choir director, myself and 2 or 3 others can read music, but the other 2 or 3 are music majors at the local university. The other 10-12 people cannot read music.
 
I’m on the Board of a community organization that has presented Handel’s Messiah for the last 65 years (and we look forward to presenting it for another 65 years, and beyond!).

Our community choir generally has around 135 singers. It’s an open choir, meaning that anyone can join by paying a five dollar membership fee.

As a pianist and an excellent sight-reader, I am always awed at how quite a few of our singers do not read music, but learn their part by ear. It’s amazing to me how good some people are at singing by ear. I can’t sing by ear at all! I’m helpless without music. (Needless to say, I’m very poor at antiphonal chanting in the Mass!)

One man in our choir, who happens to be homeless, BTW, can sing both the tenor and bass parts to the ENTIRE Messiah (all the choruses), but he does not read music. He has learned these parts by ear and does not make any mistakes. It’s amazing to hear him.

So if people can learn the milismas of Handel’s Messiah by ear, I think that most hymns and choral arrangements are easy for them to learn!

I think that people who learn musical parts by ear are very talented.
 
Cat said:
I’m on the Board of a community organization that has presented Handel’s Messiah for the last 65 years (and we look forward to presenting it for another 65 years, and beyond!).

Our community choir generally has around 135 singers. It’s an open choir, meaning that anyone can join by paying a five dollar membership fee.

As a pianist and an excellent sight-reader, I am always awed at how quite a few of our singers do not read music, but learn their part by ear. It’s amazing to me how good some people are at singing by ear. I can’t sing by ear at all! I’m helpless without music. (Needless to say, I’m very poor at antiphonal chanting in the Mass!)

One man in our choir, who happens to be homeless, BTW, can sing both the tenor and bass parts to the ENTIRE Messiah (all the choruses), but he does not read music. He has learned these parts by ear and does not make any mistakes. It’s amazing to hear him.

So if people can learn the milismas of Handel’s Messiah by ear, I think that most hymns and choral arrangements are easy for them to learn!

I think that people who learn musical parts by ear are very talented.
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Wow, that’s amazing!
 
TheMc said:
I’ve heard from several people about how many people in their choir can’t read music. Is that standard throughout the US?

Isn’t the ability to read music assumed when you join a choir?
Click to expand...
I would say this is pretty standard for Catholic parish choirs. If it is a professional choir, then their singers will usually be able to read music… it’s usually a requirement. A volunteer parish choir, on the hand, usually does not require the ability to sight-sing or to read music in general. They just want voices who can hold a tune and sing their voice part.

A good choir director will know how to teach them by ear. It’s basically repetition. I’ve always been utterly amazed at my previous choir director who was able to teach some of the most difficult choral music to a choir where most of the members could not read music. Those choir members who’ve been around for years do start to learn how to do some reading and the choir directors will give some basic music theory.
 
GEddie said:
It wouldn’t have been needed, as they sang along with the instruments. Those who played them presumably read music.
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haha! One would hope. I’ve worked with enough church organists and other instrumentalists who were horrible readers and didn’t know rhythm from the back of their hands. It can be pretty harrowing.
 
TheMc said:
I’ve heard from several people about how many people in their choir can’t read music. Is that standard throughout the US?

Isn’t the ability to read music assumed when you join a choir?
Click to expand...
uh no, I am not sure the instrumental musicians do either, some of the guitar players just know a couple of cords and use them for everything, I swear.
 
puzzleannie said:
uh no, I am not sure the instrumental musicians do either, some of the guitar players just know a couple of cords and use them for everything, I swear.
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And doesn’t it make for the most fitting music in the liturgy? 😃
 
This is all very strange to me. My volunteer parish choir of about twenty people all read music, standard and Gregorian. Everyone sight-reads at least tolerably well, too. I can’t imagine how you could regularly learn new pieces otherwise, at least without having to rehearse them over and over, or bring in a stereo for people to listen to.

I wonder, though. For those people who are competent choral singers but say they “don’t read music,” do they just mean that they can’t sight-read and can’t hear a piece in their head by looking at the notes? They must have some idea of what those little round things on those lines over the words are, right? When they move upward, the pitch goes up; when they jump downward, the pitch jumps down; when the “alligator mouth” opens toward the right, you get louder; and so on? It’s not like what happens when I look at, say, Thai or Arabic script, which I only see as completely indecipherable squiggles, is it?
 
I have a child who has been singing since birth…he LOVES to sing, so he has been in choirs his whole life. He is now in high school and a few months ago won a conference choir/singing award for his piece for a contest held between 6 or 7 different schools (however many are in the conference)…he cannot read music. However, he can hear something be sung or played one time and repeat it perfectly. His choir teacher has tried a few times to teach him to read music, but to no avail. 🤷
 
MarkThompson said:
I can’t imagine how you could regularly learn new pieces otherwise, at least without having to rehearse them over and over, or bring in a stereo for people to listen to.

I wonder, though. For those people who are competent choral singers but say they “don’t read music,” do they just mean that they can’t sight-read and can’t hear a piece in their head by looking at the notes? They must have some idea of what those little round things on those lines over the words are, right? When they move upward, the pitch goes up; when they jump downward, the pitch jumps down; when the “alligator mouth” opens toward the right, you get louder; and so on? It’s not like what happens when I look at, say, Thai or Arabic script, which I only see as completely indecipherable squiggles, is it?
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As far as I can tell, they just pick it up from listening to everyone else. Our piano player will play it, maybe with the choir director singing. Then we sing it as a group. There are enough people who do read music that the people who don’t, just singing along.

As for picking up some music as they go along, I would imagine they do some, but I’m not so sure considering how many times we have had to go over things like repeat signs.

I do think a lot of it may come down to learning styles. My sis and I both grew up taking piano from the same teacher, same style of teaching, etc. We can both read music, but that isn’t how she learns. She has to listen to a piece of music to be able to play it. That would do me no good what so ever, I have to see it written out to be able to figure it out.
 
MarkThompson said:
I can’t imagine how you could regularly learn new pieces otherwise, at least without having to rehearse them over and over, or bring in a stereo for people to listen to.
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You can’t. Thus, new music has to be introduced more slowly. I have found that this is a boon to most parishioners who like to know the music and get frustrated with a constant diet of new music.
 
MarkThompson said:
This is all very strange to me. My volunteer parish choir of about twenty people all read music, standard and Gregorian. Everyone sight-reads at least tolerably well, too. I can’t imagine how you could regularly learn new pieces otherwise, at least without having to rehearse them over and over, or bring in a stereo for people to listen to.

I wonder, though. For those people who are competent choral singers but say they “don’t read music,” do they just mean that they can’t sight-read and can’t hear a piece in their head by looking at the notes? They must have some idea of what those little round things on those lines over the words are, right? When they move upward, the pitch goes up; when they jump downward, the pitch jumps down; when the “alligator mouth” opens toward the right, you get louder; and so on? It’s not like what happens when I look at, say, Thai or Arabic script, which I only see as completely indecipherable squiggles, is it?
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If you’ve never had a lesson those little black dots and white circles with tails mean nothing and I mean nothing. I knew they were music notes but until my daughter sat with me and said that round black thing means this, when it has a tail with a squiggle it means this, those two black dots one above the other at the end of that line mean this… etc. I didn’t have a clue what they meant. Now that I know what the notes mean, and can figure out the tune of a Psalm antiphon by picking it out on the piano, I can tell if the choir is not following what’s in the hymnal. I can also figure out which setting they are using if it’s in the hymnal. Now I’m learning about neumes. Those make more sense, really.
 
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