Choosing a Pope from outside of the Papal conclave

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livingwordunity said:
Fr. Mitch Pacwa of EWTN knows 12 languages, has been evangelizing the world on EWTN for over 20 years, is a world-class biblical scholar and theologian, knows how to celebrate Mass in the Eastern as well as Western liturgies, knows the holy land and its culture like the back of his hand because of his regular pilgrimages there, and his orthodoxy is rock-solid.
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Funny that you said this because Father Pacwa said Mass at my parish this morning!
 
AloysiusBologna said:
What Happened/Changed? What revelation/ theology changed?

(From Wikipedia) & (Catholic Hierarchy)

*
Teodolfo Mertel (9 February 1806 – 11 July 1899) was a lawyer and a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He was the last cardinal not to have been ordained a priest.​
*

Pope Pius IX made him a Cardinal-Deacon of S. Eustachio on 15 March 1858. Two months later on May 16, Pope Pius IX ordained him as a deacon. Cardinal Mertel was never ordained a priest, and at the time of his death was the last surviving non-priest."
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I don’t think any theology at all changed.

At the time Mertel was made a cardinal, the papacy had significant temporal duties in ruling over the states of the Church in central Italy and the millions who lived there.

Although Vatican City is still an independent country, in the 1850’s the pope had to concern himself with fixing the roads and running the post office, minting coins and running a judiciary system.

Bringing lawyers and other professional people like Mertel into the administration makes good sense even if they aren’t priests.
 
In response to the question about cardinals being ordained…if you aren’t including diaconate, then there are a few cardinals (at least one[the proto-deacon]) who are deacons and not priests.
 
WalkWithMe123 said:
In response to the question about cardinals being ordained…if you aren’t including diaconate, then there are a few cardinals (at least one[the proto-deacon]) who are deacons and not priests.
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There are three orders of cardinals: Cardinal Bishop, Cardinal Priest, and Cardinal Deacon. These titles don’t refer to their clerical status, but the the three levels of the cardinalate.

Cardinal Bishops, who are the bishops of the suburbicarian dioceses and four Eastern patriarchs. Cardinal Priests are mostly bishops of dioceses throughout the world and some curial officials. And then there are Cardinal Deacons, who are mostly curial officials or priests who were named cardinals without being becoming bishops (such as H.E. Avery Dulles, S.J.) All the cardinal deacons are bishops or priests, not permanent deacons.
 
Vico said:
The canons state what is necessary and to not use those criteria would require an indult. For early reception of presbyterial orders an indult could be granted by the Holy See (Through The Congregation for Catholic Education, the Congregation for the Clergy, or the Congregation for Religious in the Roman Curia).
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Normally yes, but not in this case I would think.

Theoretically, any baptized unmarried adult Catholic male can be elected Pope. If they are not a bishop when elected, they are made a bishop but (here is the important point) after they accept. Before they accept, they are laity and must follow Canon Law. Immediately after they accept they are the Pope, and Canon Law does not apply to the Pope.

So, while I am certain it will not happen in my or my children’s lifetimes, it is possible for non-clergy to be elected Pope.

Let the write in campaign for Brother JR begin. 😃
 
TheDoctor said:
Normally yes, but not in this case I would think.

Theoretically, any baptized unmarried adult Catholic male can be elected Pope. If they are not a bishop when elected, they are made a bishop but (here is the important point) after they accept. Before they accept, they are laity and must follow Canon Law. Immediately after they accept they are the Pope, and Canon Law does not apply to the Pope.

So, while I am certain it will not happen in my or my children’s lifetimes, it is possible for non-clergy to be elected Pope.

Let the write in campaign for Brother JR begin. 😃
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This doesn’t make sense to me. It is “common wisdom” that any baptized male can be elected Pope…and it is what I have believed for most of my years a Catholic…but now I’m not so sure. Does anyone have a definitive clarification from a Church authority?
The Church has the power of binding and loosing, and the canons that She has bound are binding on all Catholics - including the cardinals and the man elected to the papacy (prior to his acceptance). If the cardinals do not have the authority to ignore the canons, and if the theoretical layman they elect is not yet pope and also does not have the authority to ignore the canons, then how could the election be legitimate if the canons clearly state certain requirements for the episcopate? The Pope is a bishop…sometimes Catholics forget that while he does hold the primacy he isn’t ordained to some mythical fourth degree of holy orders. He is a bishop.
 
sowinskija said:
Or Bill ORielly?
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Last week Bill O’Reilly made a statement on his show that one of the requirements for being pope was to be a priest. Of course, he was wrong about that, and now you are mentioning him (kiddingly I presume) as a possible candidate. You never know. Anyone want to bet? 😃
 
JamesCaruso said:
But somehow God has been able to work with whoever was selected. He’s pretty smart, you know. :rolleyes: Isn’t it true that He knows all our free will choices before we even make them? :eek:
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Not so sure that God has been with them all. There have been 265 popes in our short history, and we have had some real clunkers and ugly incidents. My favorite was the Cadaver Synod. No pope is impeccable and they are all thoroughly human.

That being said, I have great faith in the near future of the Church. The existing cardinals have all been hand-picked by Blessed John Paul the Great and his successor, two great men in my opinion, with excellent discernment in their ecclesiastical appointments. There is only required a little nudge from the Holy Spirit to get another great man elected. So my prayers are with the conclave when they undertake this responsibility.
 
JamesCaruso said:
Last week Bill O’Reilly made a statement on his show that one of the requirements for being pope was to be a priest. Of course, he was wrong about that, . . .
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No, being a priest is a requirement to be pope. It is just not a requirement to be elected pope. If a layman were elected, he would immediately have to be ordained a deacon and a priest, then consecrated a bishop.
 
Inego_de_Loyola said:
The list must have missed pope Benedict IX then.
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His birth date is only known approximately, said to be about 1012 A.D. which would have made him begin at age twenty as Pope.
Kielbasi said:
The list is quite incomplete, only 88 popes listed.

The youngest pope was John XII, elected in 955 at age 18.
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John XII also has an uncertain date, said to be about 937 A.D.

You can read something on each of the Popes from St. Pius X and prior here:

newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
 
Vico said:
His birth date is only known approximately, said to be about 1012 A.D. which would have made him begin at age twenty as Pope.

John XII also has an uncertain date, said to be about 937 A.D.

You can read something on each of the Popes from St. Pius X and prior here:

newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
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Most sources make him between 18 and 20 at time of election, but some say as young as 12.
 
Elizium23 said:
Not so sure that God has been with them all. There have been 265 popes in our short history, and we have had some real clunkers and ugly incidents. My favorite was the Cadaver Synod. No pope is impeccable and they are all thoroughly human.

That being said, I have great faith in the near future of the Church. The existing cardinals have all been hand-picked by Blessed John Paul the Great and his successor, two great men in my opinion, with excellent discernment in their ecclesiastical appointments. There is only required a little nudge from the Holy Spirit to get another great man elected. So my prayers are with the conclave when they undertake this responsibility.
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I didn’t mean to infer that God was with them all, but that God has His ways to use even evil men to accomplish His ends. Anyhow, God knows the being and end of everything, and He has promised to protect the Church from error, so good luck to any wayward pope who thinks he can subvert God’s plan! It’s not going to succeed.
 
MarkThompson said:
No, being a priest is a requirement to be pope. It is just not a requirement to be elected pope. If a layman were elected, he would immediately have to be ordained a deacon and a priest, then consecrated a bishop.
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Well, that’s what he meant-- the requirement to be elected. But I didn’t know he had to become a priest.
 
Information is great. Tradition is important. Faith is necessary. Love is the Greatest. Hope instills Hope. Love multiplies Love. Charity is Essential. Rules were made to be broken? What a wonderful time it would be to unify the Church! :egyptian:

I think I’ll make time to watch Anthony Quinn’s performance in that thought provoking 1968 film about Shoes and Starving People again. I wonder if our next Pope might now be in a prison?

Which finally leads to the question…What is the number of Cardinals and Bishops of the Church whose names are not publicly known?
 
SKWill said:
All the cardinal deacons are bishops or priests, not permanent deacons.
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All cardinal deacons are bishops.
Canon 351 §1. The Roman Pontiff freely selects men to be promoted as cardinals, who have been ordained at least into the order of the presbyterate and are especially outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence in action; those who are not yet bishops must receive episcopal consecration.
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