Choosing our miracles

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hamba2han said:
Why then did he perform other miracles like curing a leper, healing a blind man and raising the dead?

Would these actions not draw attention to himself?
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Maybe I confused things a little for you. It’s been nicely answered by others.However I already told you that the the talking baby Jesus certainly did not achieve its purpose for people to recognize it as a future prophet of God. Nazareth and Capernaum were small places and a miracle of a talking baby would certainly drew attention and the child growth would be looked upon with interest and anticipation. None of this happened as his village mates did not believe in him and these same people testified that he was the son of Joseph. There goes your theory that the talking child miracle was to save its mother from humiliation and that Joseph was not at all involved.

Added observation was that publicity was the least needed for Jesus. Herod wanted to kill him. A talking child that had attracted attention would surely had no problem of reaching the prying ears of Herod. That didn’t happen. He had to kill all male babies within the vicinity of Bethlehem. You need to have a little imagination of how things happen in the small country of Judea and Samaria then. Perhaps not much unlike the villages in Malaysia today.

Later theme for Jesus was that he wanted his ‘Messiah’ status to be hidden from the people. This again debunk your theory of the talking baby to reveal this status.

Hope that helps. And thanks for bringing up the issue. It makes us Catholic thinking too. 🙂

God bless.
 
There are things which just do not add up concerning this ‘Wedding at Cana’ (John 2:1-12) when this supposed miracle of turning water into wine took place.
  1. Why is this momentous “first miracle of Jesus” only mentioned in the Gospel of John and not in the Synoptic Gospels?
  2. Why is Jesus calling his mother “woman”?.. It is just so disrespectful and totally unbecoming of a loving and devoted son to call his mother “woman”.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come…John 2:4

When was the last time that any of us call our own mother “woman” when talking to her?

According to the Bible, did not Jesus call a prostitute “woman” when asking her a question?

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?…John 8:10

It is just so incredulous that Jesus (pbuh) would call his mother “woman” and this alone raises grave doubts about the accuracy of this story of him turning water into wine.
 
hamba2han said:
  1. Why is this momentous “first miracle of Jesus” only mentioned in the Gospel of John and not in the Synoptic Gospels?
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why not?
hamba2han said:
  1. Why is Jesus calling his mother “woman”?.. It is just so disrespectful and totally unbecoming of a loving and devoted son to call his mother “woman”.
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jesus never referred to mary as ‘mother’. why? because he was a little wierd. or maybe because he didnt like anyone calling mary the ‘mother of god’. 😉
 
hamba2han said:
There are things which just do not add up concerning this ‘Wedding at Cana’ (John 2:1-12) when this supposed miracle of turning water into wine took place.
  1. Why is this momentous “first miracle of Jesus” only mentioned in the Gospel of John and not in the Synoptic Gospels?
  2. Why is Jesus calling his mother “woman”?.. It is just so disrespectful and totally unbecoming of a loving and devoted son to call his mother “woman”.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come…John 2:4

When was the last time that any of us call our own mother “woman” when talking to her?

According to the Bible, did not Jesus call a prostitute “woman” when asking her a question?

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?…John 8:10

It is just so incredulous that Jesus (pbuh) would call his mother “woman” and this alone raises grave doubts about the accuracy of this story of him turning water into wine.
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To us the use of the term “woman” may sound strange but not in the right context.

See here.
The miracle in Cana

The evangelists connect Mary’s name with three different events in Our Lord’s public life: with the miracle in Cana, with His preaching, and with His passion. The first of these incidents is related in John 2:1-10. There was a marriage feast in Cana of Galilee. . .and the mother of Jesus was there. And Jesus also was invited, and his disciples, to the marriage. And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine. And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.One naturally supposes that one of the contracting parties was related to Mary, and that Jesus had been invited on account of his mother’s relationship. The couple must have been rather poor, since the wine was actually failing. Mary wishes to save her friends from the shame of not being able to provide properly for the guests, and has recourse to her Divine Son. She merely states their need, without adding any further petition. In addressing women, Jesus uniformly employs the word “woman” (Matthew 15:28; Luke 13:12; John 4:21; 8:10; 19:26; 20:15), an expression used by classical writers as a respectful and honourable address. [82] The above cited passages show that in the language of Jesus the address “woman” has a most respectful meaning.

I remember reading another very good explanation of Jesus’ use of the word “woman”, but I can’t remember where it was! 😊

Vickie
 
hamba2han said:
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come…John 2:4

It is just so incredulous that Jesus (pbuh) would call his mother “woman” and this alone raises grave doubts about the accuracy of this story of him turning water into wine.
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Thank you for quoting the Bible. 🙂

I hope you are satisfied now that the miracle of the talking baby Jesus is a made up story. He could not have done that miracle because his hour is not yet come …

Please note that Jesus’ miracles are not self-serving but done for the sake and the good of others. This is true all the way until his death.

Please note the significant of that first miracle. It was done because the guests needed it. But more so beautiful for Catholics - because her mother interceded for it, even though his hour is not yet come … A fine son Jesus was, he obeyed her mother. Thou shalt honor thy father and mother (the fourth commandment).

You may like to take time to differentiate between the commandments and the laws. And the concept of sin. Does Islam recognize sin or is sin just a thing that is forbidden only?

Peace.
 
hamba2han said:
There are things which just do not add up concerning this ‘Wedding at Cana’ (John 2:1-12) when this supposed miracle of turning water into wine took place.
  1. Why is this momentous “first miracle of Jesus” only mentioned in the Gospel of John and not in the Synoptic Gospels? …
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Extremely good question, 2Han!

I think Jesus’ (pbuh) follower John (pbuh) has the answer at the close of his gospel, where he writes:

“Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”

(Gospel of John, chapter 21, verse 25)

John (pbuh) was the last remaining of the 12 closest followers of Jesus (pbuh). The gospels written by the other followers of Jesus (pbuh) were well circulated and well known by the time he wrote his own gospel.

Many Christians would travel to see John (pbuh) and ask him to tell them something they had not already heard about Jesus (pbuh). Hence, John (pbuh) made a point of writing a gospel that had additional facts about Jesus (pbuh) of which he personally was a witness and of which were not recorded by the other gospel writers.

Did not the followers of Muhammad (pbuh) do the same after the prophet’s departure? Did they not write down important events in the life of their teacher and leader that were not recorded in the words of the Quran?
 
hamba2han said:
… 2. Why is Jesus calling his mother “woman”?.. It is just so disrespectful and totally unbecoming of a loving and devoted son to call his mother “woman”. … It is just so incredulous that Jesus (pbuh) would call his mother “woman” and this alone raises grave doubts about the accuracy of this story of him turning water into wine.
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I know it sounds rude to our modern ears, but in the ancient Jewish culture of Jesus’ (pbuh) day, the word translated as woman in English was actually a term of endearment and respect.
 
John (pbuh) records Jesus (pbuh) as using the same term when addressing his mother during his execution:

"When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Dear woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
(John 19:26-27)

The word translated woman, here, is the same word used by Jesus (pbuh) when addressing his mother at the beginning of John’s (pbuh) gospel. From the context, it is clear that Jesus (pbuh) used the word woman out of respect and love for the woman who gave birth to him.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
I think Jesus’ (pbuh) follower John (pbuh) has the answer at the close of his gospel, where he writes:

“Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”

(Gospel of John, chapter 21, verse 25)

John (pbuh) was the last remaining of the 12 closest followers of Jesus (pbuh). The gospels written by the other followers of Jesus (pbuh) were well circulated and well known by the time he wrote his own gospel.

Many Christians would travel to see John (pbuh) and ask him to tell them something they had not already heard about Jesus (pbuh). Hence, John (pbuh) made a point of writing a gospel that had additional facts about Jesus (pbuh) of which he personally was a witness and of which were not recorded by the other gospel writers.
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There is considerable evidence to show that the Disciple John is NOT the author of the Gospel of John.
 
Dont quote me on this, i cant quite remember the context, but i believe the word in latin for woman can also be a translation for girl, wife, sister, lady etc. I think it is a broad term used for woman in general…
I will do more research on this, as i know its written correctly somewhere…
 
Here is another explanation i found in another thread:

The use of the term “Woman” both in John 2 (wedding at Cana) and John 19 (crucifixion) is actually a reference by Jesus to Mary being the New Eve…

Now, all Christians agree that Eve was created sinless and perfect and remained so until the fall of man… Now, she was only addressed as “Woman” while sinless and perfect, prior to the fall of man and named Eve after the fall of man (Gen 3:20); thus, Mary, as the New Eve is addressed as “Woman” by Jesus. This is, in essence, one of the proofs for the Immaculate Conception.

There is another link between Eve and Mary and that is the “title” change. Eve started as Woman and became Eve (Mother of all living) after the fall of man. Mary also started as Woman and became Mother after the redemption of man.
 
Hi

I would again quote here from Quran:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 19: Maryam
[19:17] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern place;
[19:18] And screened herself off from them. Then We sent Our angel to her and he appeared to her in the form of a well proportioned man.
[19:19] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
[19:20] The angel said, ‘I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may give thee glad tidings of a righteous son.’
[19:21] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?’
[19:22] The angel said, ‘Thus it shall be.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for ME; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from US, and it is a thing decreed.’
[19:23] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.
[19:24] And the pains of child-birth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, 'O, would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten!
[19:25] Then the angel called her from beneath her, saying, 'Grieve not. Thy Lord has placed a rivulet below thee;
[19:26] 'And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will drop upon thee fresh ripe dates;
[19:27] 'So, eat and drink and cool thine eye. And if thou seest any man, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to the Gracious God; I will, therefore, not speak this day to any human being.’
[19:28] Then she brought him to her people, mounted. They said, 'O Mary, surely, thou hast committed a monstrous thing!
[19:29] ‘O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!’
[19:30]** Then she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?**][19:31] Jesus said, 'I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet;
[19:32] 'And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;
[19:33] 'And He has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless;
[19:34] ‘And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.’ [19:35] That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt.
[19:36] It does not befit the Majesty of Allah to take unto Himself a son. Holy is He. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, ‘Be, and it comes into being.’
[19:37] Said Jesus, ‘Surely, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him alone, this is the right path.’
Unquote

I would plainly state here that nowhere in these verses Quran has mentioned/claimed that speaking of JesusYeshuaIssa in a young age was necessarily a miracle or sign - a must to be believed by everybody, at least I understand as that.

I would therefore say this is a misconception of my Muslim friend, and this could be understood by him with a little thought on the verses.

Thanks
 
Is there not a word for ‘mother’ in Hebrew or Aramaic, the language that Jesus (pbuh) spoke that it was necessary for him to call his mother ‘woman’?

Indeed, the Hebrew word for 'mother is ‘eym’ and in Aramaic, the word is ‘Eema’ - also ‘Ima’ for ‘Mother’.

Why didn’t he just call his mother “Eema” instead of using the Aramaic word for ‘woman’?

Also, why was it necessary for Jesus to turn water into wine in light of the prohibition in the Bible against drinking wine till drunkedness?

Remember that it was at a wedding ceremony that this “first miracle of Jesus” supposedly took place and therefore there surely was plenty of water being miraculously turned into an equally plentiful supply of wine.

Did Jesus reminded all the wedding guests there not to drink so much of the wine till they become tipsy??

I mean, if he had turned the water into say orange juice instead of wine, would it have become any less of a miracle for all to witness?
 
If he turned the water in to orange juice instead of wine then anyone who was diabetic would have to abstain.
 
Valke2 said:
If he turned the water in to orange juice instead of wine then anyone who was diabetic would have to abstain.
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Prophet Jesus (pbuh) cured a leper and healed a blind man among the many miracles that Muslims also believe he did indeed do with the help of Allah.

I see no reason then why a gulp of ‘miracle orange juice’ would not be able to cure diabetes or other such ailments.
 
hamba2han said:
Prophet Jesus (pbuh) cured a leper and healed a blind man among the many miracles that Muslims also believe he did indeed do with the help of Allah.

I see no reason then why a gulp of ‘miracle orange juice’ would not be able to cure diabetes or other such ailments.
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Excellent point. ANd I see no reason why a gulp of “miracle wine” would not be able to cure drunkenness or other such ailments. Is there anything in scripture that says the guests became drunk on the wine Jesus made?

For the record, since joining this forum, it seems that I’ve become an apologist for buddahist, catholics, christians, jews, mormons and mulsims. I feel like Life of Pi, the sequel.
 
hamba2han said:
There is considerable evidence to show that the Disciple John is NOT the author of the Gospel of John.
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There is considerable evidence to show that he is the author. Show me yours and i’ll show you mine!

😛
 
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