Chose to use artificial insemination - now what?

[adelore]

I would recommend educating yourself on IUI before jumping in and passing judgement on something you obviously know nothing about. No eggs were removed from my body. No embryos were destroyed or sitting frozen anywhere. The sperm from my husband was injected directly into my uterus. We did NOT use IVF.

Between the above answer and that comparing this act to that of gay marriage and my being responsible for a womans choice to abort a child are ridiculious. No need to respond any further. My husband and I have decided to move forward in our search for a more accepting church. We will never agree on this issue and I won’t be held hostage by it either. No further advice is needed.

I must agree I can understand how this woman is feeling, like she’s being “Attacked” by Christians who are Catholic, comparing other things to her posting of what she did is not what she asked for.

She was truely searching for help to get back to her faith. Comparing what she did to what “others” gay marriage, woman having abortions, has nothing to do with what she’s asking for, or for what she did.

Sometimes “we” as Christians are our own worst enemy when it comes to a “lost person” trying to find their way back. After all she was simply wanting to come back to the Catholic Church, not asking for people to be judgmental and get down on her and then to top it all off compare what she did to so many other “sinful” things.

Jesus when talking with someone in a sinful state, did not get down on them and through the “book” at them. He was full of love, forgiveness and told them to “repent and sin no more.”

When someone like this lady comes to this board for advice on how to get back in “Good Grace” the last thing she needs is a lecture on what she did was wrong (and to assume she did more than what she did) and then to compare that to all kinds of other things? Come on where is that anywhere near what Our Heavenly Father taught us to be like?

What she needed was love and our prayers to help her and guide her back into the fold of the Catholic Church. Not push her further out…since after all it must have been Our Lord getting her to seek coming back Home. We have all sinned and have fallen from grace, who among us can cast the first stone?

My anwer to this woman if she happens to take a look at this forum again is this.

You and your husband wanted children, (which I can understand being a mother of 4) since to you and your husband it (seemed) that God wasn’t “blessing” you with children, you then seeked the medical community to help you with the placing of your husbands sperm so therefore you could then concieve.

This is an act of “lacking faith” that God would provide you children. Yet in Gods love for you and your husband, God allowed not one but two beautiful children to be born.

But do you know for a fact that even though you had this done, that God didn’t allow you to become pregnant by your husband the natural way? Of course not this procedure could have caused things to open up and then you could have possible got pregnant by your husband in the natural way…Only God knows the answer to this.

But in any case…God knowing your heart blessed you with two wonderful children. (after all God could have still prevented you from becoming pregnant if that was not His desire.)

Now the part that you brought a third party, (medical community) with the actual procedure into the picture was the sin. (Because you lacked faith that God would bless you with children on His Own, in His Time, not yours.)

The lack in faith that God would open your womb in His Time and not your’s is the True sin here, this is what caused you to seek the medical community and act how you did.

What do you need to confess to a Priest, that you “**lacked faith in God” **and took matters into your own hands. Can this be forgiven…of course.

Please don’t let some of the answers here keep you from returning to the Catholic Church, each one of us on this board has sinned, we all fall short of the glory of God.

 

[Kevin42]

I can understand why she feels she was being attacked by about 3 posts at most from this thread. The rest of them are incredibly charitable and loving, but they do not compromise Catholic teaching. From the many years that I have been online, this thread has an excellent record of charity. Maybe not perfect, but one should not try to find perfection in an online thread made up of sinners .

Unfortunately, judging by this woman’s last post, it seems what she was really looking for was for someone to tell her that what she did was ok in the eyes of God. (Perhaps not, but that was my impression. I also do not say this to be mean or anything.) No Catholic that knows their faith will say that though. I have no doubt in the intentions of our the original poster, and I am sure that she is doing her best to live her faith. If anyone should know how difficult it is to be able to reconcile your life’s actions and your feelings with the faith, it would be me. I myself have, in effect, left the Church for such reasons in the past as well. God is always whispering to your soul though, quitely asking you to come back to him. So, let us pray that the original poster is one day able to be at peace with herself and return to God and His Church.

Peace and good.

 

[GailMac]

So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

 

[Kevin42]

So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

Are you suggesting that someone who is baptized can actually sin enough, or commit a big enough sin that they can stop being Christian ? While a person may not be in a state of grace, I wasn’t aware that they ceased to be Christian.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Mom2Girls, I PM’ed you.

 

[Mom2Girls]

She was truely searching for help to get back to her faith. Comparing what she did to what “others” gay marriage, woman having abortions, has nothing to do with what she’s asking for, or for what she did.

What do you need to confess to a Priest, that you “lacked faith in God” and took matters into your own hands. Can this be forgiven…of course.

Thank you for understanding what I was saying, I appreciate the time you took to respond.

Unfortunately, judging by this woman’s last post, it seems what she was really looking for was for someone to tell her that what she did was ok in the eyes of God. (Perhaps not, but that was my impression. I also do not say this to be mean or anything.)

Hi Kevin, To clarify that is not what I was looking for. What I was looking for was wether or not there was the option to return without admission or feelings that what I did was a sin (because as I stated earlier I do not). I understand that the cathilic church views it that way. I am not looking for someone to say that the church says its ok. I was trying to understand if returning without confession was optional if that makes sense. The answers seem to tell me that with out the confession this would not be accepted. This is not something I came wrote on a chat board and made a decision based on this. My eldest child is 4 years old this is not something I started to think about just last week when I posted this. I do agree with you that I have received some very respectful posts, I was a little off the evening I read that final post. It was not helpful to me to continually hear my actions described as (in essence the way I chose to have my children) a grave sin, mortal sin, killing babies etc - I still am not able to seperate the two, I am not sure I ever will. I am truly feeling that the exploration of a faith that accepts my decision may be better for my family. I truly believe that God lead me to have my children this way and that he does not condemn me for it even though the church does. I think it would be far more grave a sin to confess something just because the church thinks I should.

So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

Endless Array is a bit over the top don’t you think. You must be perfect and free from sin to be Christian?
I am not looking for sacrastic over the top responses, please pass your judgement else where, really how was your post helpful?

Mom2Girls, I PM’ed you.

Thank you Elizabeth, I did get your PM and that of many others who have been able to truely understand where I am at in dealing with this situation. I have not had the time to respond to everyone yet but do appreciate the time people took to reach out. It has meant a lot.

---

 

[Debra_C]

I agree Mom-- You certainly deserve compassion and understanding. There is nothing unusual or wrong about wanting to have children. This is a very difficult situation for anyone. And no, none of us are free from sin. I doubt your sin is any worse than my own. I just hope that you can see that receiving God’s mercy and reconciliation with the Church does not mean you have to renounce your daughters or regret having had them. Their lives are a gift of God just like any other. Now that they are here, you have a responsibility to love and care for them, just as you are doing. Obviously you did not make the choice you did with ill intent, and since you have clarified the method that was used did not require the production of other embryos which are now frozen (one of the Church’s major objections to artificial insemination is this destruction of life, of course), I would think this would be an easy matter to resolve in Confession. I am not even certain that it necessarily rises to the occasion of a mortal sin, since that requires full knowledge and free consent (intent to defy God) to do what you want anyway.

I hope and pray that Our Lord will help you resolve this conflict and find peace. I know that He loves you and your daughters beyond anything any of us can imagine.

 

[Kevin42]

Hi Kevin, To clarify that is not what I was looking for. What I was looking for was wether or not there was the option to return without admission or feelings that what I did was a sin (because as I stated earlier I do not). I understand that the cathilic church views it that way. I am not looking for someone to say that the church says its ok. I was trying to understand if returning without confession was optional if that makes sense. The answers seem to tell me that with out the confession this would not be accepted. This is not something I came wrote on a chat board and made a decision based on this. My eldest child is 4 years old this is not something I started to think about just last week when I posted this. I do agree with you that I have received some very respectful posts, I was a little off the evening I read that final post. It was not helpful to me to continually hear my actions described as (in essence the way I chose to have my children) a grave sin, mortal sin, killing babies etc - I still am not able to seperate the two, I am not sure I ever will. I am truly feeling that the exploration of a faith that accepts my decision may be better for my family. I truly believe that God lead me to have my children this way and that he does not condemn me for it even though the church does. I think it would be far more grave a sin to confess something just because the church thinks I should.

My apologies. I think I understand what you were looking for, although I am still slightly uncertain. I am under the impression that you were not looking to get an ok or a green light from the Church or it’s members saying that what you did was ok. What you were looking for though was whether or not you could still attend Catholic Church and not made to feel like an outcast?

If that is the case, then I am sure you could do that (so long as you didn’t receive communion). That is what I ended up doing for about a year, simply because I knew the Church didn’t accept what I did and how I was living, yet I just could not find anywhere else to go. Of course, not ever being able to receive communion may still make you feel like an outcast, but that’s beyond the point.

I really do pray that you can find some peace concerning this. Naturally, I would also pray that you stick with the Church, but if you truly feel led another way, then I pray that all works out well for you and your family.

Peace and good.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I am not sure if this is in the right section, I apologize if it is not. My husband and I have been struggling with our faith for some time. We are both catholic. We have been married for nine years. The most important thing to both of us was having a family. After trying to create a family for 2+ years we knew something was wrong and sought out the advice of a doctor. After several tests it was confirm that we were unable to conceive. Our chances were less than 1% without help. Our faith told us that the options available to us to conceive a child were immoral. After another year of trying conventionally we chose to do what we needed to do to have a family. I used infertility drugs and was inseminated with my husband’s sperm. I used this method twice and have two beautiful little girls. Personally I do not regret or feel guilty for my choices. My husband and I have struggled with our faith since this all began. I feel these are the children we were meant to have and this road has led us to them. However I miss my faith and my church community. We have not been involved with the church in a few years because of these differences. I don’t know where to go from here. I cannot ask for forgiveness as our priest suggests. To me I would be saying my children were a sin and I refuse to do that, I don’t feel that way. Is there common ground or is this it? Where do my children fit into all of this?

Children are always recognized as a blessing, regardless of how they came to be. The act that brought them here does not make them any more or any less a blessing from God. The way you conceived them “missed the mark” on how God wants them to come into being. It was the wrong way to do it, but that doesn’t negate the value of the children.

You can separate the act from the result. Where sin abounds, grace abounds even more. Admitting that the way was wrong is different than accepting or not accepting the children. They aren’t “mistakes” or “bastard children” or anything like that. They are a gift.

Remember Sarai and Abraham.

Peace…

MW

 

[Seatuck]

So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

Gail, please endeavor to stir up some christian charity the next time you post . Please.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

Talk about self-righteous and judgmental, geez. Mother of Mercy help us!

 

[elliejanba]

I would recommend educating yourself on IUI before jumping in and passing judgement on something you obviously know nothing about. No eggs were removed from my body. No embryos were destroyed or sitting frozen anywhere. The sperm from my husband was injected directly into my uterus. We did NOT use IVF.

Between the above answer and that comparing this act to that of gay marriage and my being responsible for a womans choice to abort a child are ridiculious. No need to respond any further. My husband and I have decided to move forward in our search for a more accepting church. We will never agree on this issue and I won’t be held hostage by it either. No further advice is needed.

I didn’t really compare you to gay marriage. It’s just reminiscent of trying to force acceptance rather than to accept culpability. Honestly, I think you already left the church, in your own belief that you must be more right than the church.

You seem to be fairly self-determined person, in making a child by any means necessary. You seem to be doing this again in this situation. Acceptance by any means necessary.

You really have to take a step back, and ask what is driving you. It seems like you are a person who strives to be good, but don’t let your good intentions be misdirected. Sometimes you just have to accept God’s plan, even if it isn’t your plan.

 

[Mom2Girls]

My apologies. I think I understand what you were looking for, although I am still slightly uncertain. I am under the impression that you were not looking to get an ok or a green light from the Church or it’s members saying that what you did was ok. What you were looking for though was whether or not you could still attend Catholic Church and not made to feel like an outcast?

If that is the case, then I am sure you could do that (so long as you didn’t receive communion). That is what I ended up doing for about a year, simply because I knew the Church didn’t accept what I did and how I was living, yet I just could not find anywhere else to go. Of course, not ever being able to receive communion may still make you feel like an outcast, but that’s beyond the point.

That’s exactly where I am at, that says it perfectly.

I didn’t really compare you to gay marriage. It’s just reminiscent of trying to force acceptance rather than to accept culpability. Honestly, I think you already left the church, in your own belief that you must be more right than the church.

You seem to be fairly self-determined person, in making a child by any means necessary. You seem to be doing this again in this situation. Acceptance by any means necessary.

You really have to take a step back, and ask what is driving you. It seems like you are a person who strives to be good, but don’t let your good intentions be misdirected. Sometimes you just have to accept God’s plan, even if it isn’t your plan.

You have no idea who I am or what my intentions are.

I think choice’s like yours makes people opt for abortion.

Let’s not leave out your earlier comments. This is a ridiculous statement. Your intentions are to come to this thread to punish me with words, not help.

---

I am not sure if this thread just goes on and on but I feel I know were I am at and where I need to go. I will be setting up a meeting with the priest to talk about this and get some more feedback from him. Then I will be better equiped to make an infomed decision.

Thank you to those whom have truly tried to help and offered understanding. To those that PM’d thank you for your words and sharing your experiences it has helped a great deal. I have not had the time to respond to everyone and I apologize.

 

[beckycmarie]

I seriously do not understand how it is that my children are gift from God yet the act in which created them is a sin. I struggle with this greatly.

This is a sensitive subject for me, this decision did not come about lightly and without thought. I feel judged and attacked not only by comments here but in my real life. Even though people try to seperate the children from the act, I cannot.

I have also felt that my path maybe more excepted somewhere else if I cannot reconcile this with myself.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, it is appreciated.

Dear Mom2Girls,

This situation is very similar to a woman getting pregnant out of wedlock. The act that created the child was a sin, however the child herself is a tremendous gift from God despite the sin of the parents.

I think one major way such fertility treatments keep people in mortal sin, is that it is very difficult for the parents to repent of the sin. They connect the child so closely with the sin itself; that they can’t imagine how they can be sorry for the act that created the child. But like the mother who became pregnant out of wedlock, you need to confess and have contrition for the sin, but you can still cherish the precious children God gave you. Imagine an unwed mother refusing to repent because her sin brought the gift of her child - that is where you are right now.

If you are having trouble getting to the point of being contrite, then ask God to help you with that. He is waiting for you to come home to Him and will do what it takes to get you into the Confessional with sincere contrition. He will not refuse you what is good for your soul.

 

[Seatuck]

The way I think about it is this. God can make wonderfully good things out of bad . That is what this boils down to. A bad decision that God has worked through in his infinite mercy and goodness to bring about a wonderful good outcome. A child of his own making.

I thank God all the time for making good come out of my bad decisions. Whether it is something I learn while having to deal with bad consequences or a good outcome despite my wrong choices.

 

[beckycmarie]

The way I think about it is this. God can make wonderfully good things out of bad .

You’re not the only one; St. Paul says the same thing.

*And we know that **in all things *God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

 

[Debra_C]

I am not sure if this thread just goes on and on but I feel I know were I am at and where I need to go. I will be setting up a meeting with the priest to talk about this and get some more feedback from him. Then I will be better equiped to make an infomed decision.

Thank you to those whom have truly tried to help and offered understanding. To those that PM’d thank you for your words and sharing your experiences it has helped a great deal. I have not had the time to respond to everyone and I apologize.

I wish you all the best, Mom. I am just sure there is a place for you in the Catholic Church, and that there is no need fo ryou tofeel like an outcast.

 

[adelore]

I believe this will be of some help. This may shed a “new light” on things.

**The gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others (CCC 2379)./B]

Now of course I can be wrong, as I can’t speak for the Church, but it just seems to me that the procudure that you had done would be within the legitimate medical procedure you had done. Now don’t get me wrong, but my thoughts are since the medical procedure you had done was to place your husbands seed in your utures to create life, seems to me this would fall under a legitimate medical procedure. After all he did not spill his seed on the ground or to prevent pregnancy, his seed was just helped to get there to create life.

I’m sure without a doubt “others” may tell me my answer is wrong, but I truely don’t think it is.**

 

[Seatuck]

I believe this will be of some help. This may shed a “new light” on things.

The gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others (CCC 2379)./B]

Now of course I can be wrong, as I can’t speak for the Church, but it just seems to me that the procudure that you had done would be within the legitimate medical procedure you had done. Now don’t get me wrong, but my thoughts are since the medical procedure you had done was to place your husbands seed in your utures to create life, seems to me this would fall under a legitimate medical procedure. After all he did not spill his seed on the ground or to prevent pregnancy, his seed was just helped to get there to create life.

I’m sure without a doubt “others” may tell me my answer is wrong, but I truely don’t think it is.

Perhaps you should study the churches teaching on what is a legitimate medical procedure more closely so that if you advise others you will at least tell what the church does teach. I’m sure you meant well but you aren’t quite infomed enough.

Here’s a general guide to get you started.

usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm

and

usccb.org/prolife/tdocs/part2.shtml

We assume the OP has looked into the type of procedure that she has done to check if it was considered legitimate or not. From her post it seems she has. Perhaps she should look to see if the type of procedure she did fits.

You might also want to look into the actual procedures. The semen is not inserted into the uterus. There are also many different aspects to the procedure which makes it legitimate or not such as how the semen is collected. Look to the first link for acceptable means.

 

[GailMac]

Kevin42 states: "Quote:
Originally Posted by GailMac
So, in your desperation for a child you’ve consented to partake of an endless array of mortal sins. Are you still Christian? I don’t think so. Maybe you do.

Peace,

Gail

Are you suggesting that someone who is baptized can actually sin enough, or commit a big enough sin that they can stop being Christian ? While a person may not be in a state of grace, I wasn’t aware that they ceased to be Christian."

Yeppers, I am. The beginning of justification of that type of sin cycle would include apostasy. I found in the dictionary an alternative god for those who would like to justify their excesses. It’s name is Anubis and information about it can be found in Egyptology. Here’s some help with justifying that many sins consented to to let a good end justify any means taken to have a baby: "Anubis - God of Embalming
head of jackal

Anubis invented embalming to embalm Osiris, the first mummy. He was the guide of the dead. The Egyptians embalmed their dead, especially their pharaohs, to preserve them, since they thought…" Here’s the link: gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/egypt/anubis.htm

But I really wouldn’t recomend using this route to justify that type of sin cycle. The end result is Hell. Good luck and God bless.

Peace,

Gail