Chris West and Orthodoxy?

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RikasAngel

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Hello All,

I’m a student at one of the two most renowned Orthodox Catholic Colleges in America. Recently, I’ve been hearing rumors attacking the Orthodoxy of Christopher West to the point that he supposedly is not allowed to speak at either school. This disturbes me. I’ve heard, met, and read Christopher West, and I have never heard him say one word contrary to Church teaching. I’m very curious as to what you all have to say. :hmmm:
 
Is Christopher West the guy who wrote an introduction to The Theology of the Body and various other things concerning it?
 
RikasAngel said:
Hello All,

I’m a student at one of the two most renowned Orthodox Catholic Colleges in America. Recently, I’ve been hearing rumors attacking the Orthodoxy of Christopher West to the point that he supposedly is not allowed to speak at either school. This disturbes me. I’ve heard, met, and read Christopher West, and I have never heard him say one word contrary to Church teaching. I’m very curious as to what you all have to say. :hmmm:
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He is fantastic! I think he is a prophet of our times and John Paul II’s legacy.

Nothing he says is out of line with Church teaching, in fact, he brings his audience into a fuller understanding of Church history, teaching and philosphy.

I would imagine that he is under horrible attacks.
 
RikasAngel said:
Hello All,

I’m a student at one of the two most renowned Orthodox Catholic Colleges in America. Recently, I’ve been hearing rumors attacking the Orthodoxy of Christopher West to the point that he supposedly is not allowed to speak at either school. This disturbes me. I’ve heard, met, and read Christopher West, and I have never heard him say one word contrary to Church teaching. I’m very curious as to what you all have to say. :hmmm:
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My opinion is that he is currently orthodox. I say “currently” because people change. As long as he assents to church authority and he does not subscribe to erroneous teaching that will remain my opinion.

Your choice of words is interesting. One should ignore rumors. Unless something definitive is posted at your school that is all it is: rumor. If you are concerned ask the administration at your school.

As much as I appreciate the work of Christopher West to unpack the teachings of JPII I have heard people’s misunderstandings of West’s work. Some people hear what they want to hear and I think others look for a argument. That might be enough to give pause to the powers that be.
 
Hello All,

My school hasn’t been especially forward about the situation. I have been inquiring and our Chaplian and Student Government say there is something wrong with his Orthodoxy, which bothers me because I have never heard him preach a single UNorthodox word. That’s why I started this forum to see if anyone had an opinion on the matter. Any feedback would be of help. :bounce:
 
Please be more specific if you can. As bruised reed said rumors aren’t much to go on.

My feeling is that a Catholic is presumed orthodox until shown to be otherwise. At that point, a good Catholic who was simply mistaken would repent once he understands that he is in the wrong. From what I know of Christopher West, he would surely not intentionally say anything unorthodox.

But again, for the problem to be rectified, specifics are necessary.
 
I said Orthodox. He always states up fron when something is his own theory or whatever.
 
Well, I have heard him say sex is a sacrament. Last time I checked there were only seven sacraments, and sex wasn’t one of them. If they recently added an eigth and I wasn’t aware, I would love for someone to point me to where I could find the new rite for that.
 
RikasAngel said:
Hello All,

I’m a student at one of the two most renowned Orthodox Catholic Colleges in America. Recently, I’ve been hearing rumors attacking the Orthodoxy of Christopher West to the point that he supposedly is not allowed to speak at either school. This disturbes me. I’ve heard, met, and read Christopher West, and I have never heard him say one word contrary to Church teaching. I’m very curious as to what you all have to say. :hmmm:
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Angel, First, what school do you attend? (If you don’t mind me asking)
Chris West distorts what the late Holy Father intended. When people have certain moral problems they tend to try to justify it by other means. E.g., Luther had a problem with scrupels, so he justified it by saying that man was purely corrupt, and could not be saved by his own will. Likewise, Chris West has acknowledged an addiction to pornography in the past. Granted, while he may have reconciled himself to the church, he has unfortunately tried to justify his obsession with sex. Claiming, like the Inquisitor said, that it is a sacrament. One should also pray during the act and meditate, etc. I believe there are some of his talks available on his website for free. So, take a listen.
hasikelee said:
He is fantastic! I think he is a prophet of our times and John Paul II’s legacy.

Nothing he says is out of line with Church teaching, in fact, he brings his audience into a fuller understanding of Church history, teaching and philosphy.

I would imagine that he is under horrible attacks.
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Prophet, huh? That’s a pretty bold statement, considering we haven’t had one, for oh, say 2,000 years. 😉
 
GrandInquisitor said:
Well, I have heard him say sex is a sacrament. Last time I checked there were only seven sacraments, and sex wasn’t one of them. If they recently added an eigth and I wasn’t aware, I would love for someone to point me to where I could find the new rite for that.
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The Sacrament of Marriage actually includes sex directly. In fact, if the couple can’t have sex, they can’t get married Sacramentally, and if they go through the ritual but don’t have sex it’s not a full Marriage.

In that sense, the Sacrament of Marriage is the “Sacrament of Sex”, and that’s what Christopher West means when he says that. Marriage without sex at least once is not the Sacrament of Marriage, properly understood.

Peace and God bless!
 
Uncle_Toner said:
Chris West distorts what the late Holy Father intended.
Likewise, Chris West has acknowledged an addiction to pornography in the past. *******************
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Any facts to back us your statements or are you just throwing around rumors yourself? I have not real attachment to Mr West but what you said seems a bit unfair, really.

Jennifer
 
Ghosty said:
The Sacrament of Marriage actually includes sex directly. In fact, if the couple can’t have sex, they can’t get married Sacramentally, and if they go through the ritual but don’t have sex it’s not a full Marriage.

In that sense, the Sacrament of Marriage is the “Sacrament of Sex”, and that’s what Christopher West means when he says that. Marriage without sex at least once is not the Sacrament of Marriage, properly understood.

Peace and God bless!
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Sex itself is not a sacrament proper, and the way he states it in his talks is confusing at best, and heretical at worst.

As a married man I find it distrubing that you would say that the Sacrament of Marriage IS the Sacrament of Sex. My marriage is a great deal more to me than sex, and by saying that you are implying that the grace bestowed in the Rite of Marriage is not received by the couple until they have sex.

Simply not having sex is not grounds for an annulment, so I have to disagree with your statement that “marriage without sex at least once is not the sacrament of marriage properly understood.”

An undisclosed inability to consumate, or an outright refusal to consumate are grounds for an annulment, but simply the mere lack of sex is not.

Under your reasoning, Joseph was never really married to Mary, at least, not properly understood. Seems like the Church wouldn’t emphasize emulating the Holy Family if they were not married, properly understood.
 
GrandInquisitor said:
Sex itself is not a sacrament proper, and the way he states it in his talks is confusing at best, and heretical at worst.
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Have you been to his talks? I have, and he never said that sex was a Sacrament in and of itself.
An undisclosed inability to consumate, or an outright refusal to consumate are grounds for an annulment, but simply the mere lack of sex is not.
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Canon Law disagrees with you, I’m afraid. A non-consummated Marriage can be dissolved even at the request of only a single party, and an appeal based on it can override a Tribunal as it goes straight to the Holy See.
Under your reasoning, Joseph was never really married to Mary, at least, not properly understood. Seems like the Church wouldn’t emphasize emulating the Holy Family if they were not married, properly understood.
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There’s a difference between Sacramental Marriage and natural marriage. I’ve never heard it argued that Joseph and Mary had a Sacramental Marriage, especially since there’s no evidence that Joseph was baptised with a Christian Baptism.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
Have you been to his talks? I have, and he never said that sex was a Sacrament in and of itself.

Canon Law disagrees with you, I’m afraid. A non-consummated Marriage can be dissolved even at the request of only a single party, and an appeal based on it can override a Tribunal as it goes straight to the Holy See.

There’s a difference between Sacramental Marriage and natural marriage. I’ve never heard it argued that Joseph and Mary had a Sacramental Marriage, especially since there’s no evidence that Joseph was baptised with a Christian Baptism.

Peace and God bless!
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Well, this is the point that I’m going to have to request some proof, most especially on the Canon Law saying that the mere fact that a couple hasn’t had sex yet is grounds for an annulment.
Because by your reasoning, if a couple got married, and on the way to their honeymoon to consumate their marriage they decided that it was a mistake and they haven’t consumated yet, that they can just go get an annulment because they changed their minds. But if there was no impediment to their consent freely given at the time that the Rite was performed, then the mere fact that they haven’t had sex does not seem sufficient to me to declare that marriage invalid. So I ask again for proof.

As far as going to his talks, yes, I have been to one of his talks, and the words “Sex is a sacrament” came out of his mouth. And no, it is not. Marriage does not equal sex, and sex does not equal marriage.

Quite frankly I don’t even really see a point in arguing over the man. His work is not a part of the deposit of faith, is not necessary for your or my salvation, and in a hundred years history will look back on theology of the body (and especially Chris West’s often sexually explicit illustrations of it) as just another odd theological trend.
 
“Theology of the body” is good theology. And West is a superb teacher.
 
Wow, when you put it that way, I can completely see the error of my ways. It was so well articulated that there is no possible argument that can refute it. Thank you so much for your insight; surely it will be the salvation of my immortal soul.
 
GrandInquisitor said:
Wow, when you put it that way, I can completely see the error of my ways. It was so well articulated that there is no possible argument that can refute it. Thank you so much for your insight; surely it will be the salvation of my immortal soul.
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First off I was not addressing you. I was responding to the original poster. I was also stating something that I experienced in my heart while studying T.O.B and listening to Chris West.

Your sarcasm and uncharitable posts are disheartening. 😦
 
Here is an example of Christopher West’s odd interpretation of theology of the body (http://www.nd.edu/~afreddos/papers/cwest-tob.htm):

“A Sensual Religion
Far from eschewing the body, Catholicism is a very physical, sensual—dare I say sexual—religion—much more so than some
kinds of piety might wish it to be. Indeed, when the real richness of Catholic ceremonies, symbols, and sacraments is unveiled, it
often scandalizes people.
For instance, have you ever noticed the symbolism of the blessing of the baptismal waters at the Easter Vigil? As one priest I’ve
read about describes it, “Oh, that erotic rite!” Here, at the highlight of the most solemn liturgy of the year, the Easter candle is
plunged in and out of the baptismal font as a symbol of Christ impregnating the womb of the Church from which many children will
be “born again.” I’m not making this up!”
 
I just began reading his book “The Good News About Sex and Marriage” so I will keep an eye on this thread, even after just reading the opening I can tell Mr. West and I have had similar experiences in life. I was one of the guys that would notch my belt after a conquest (not literally), but I thought of sex as nothing more than gratifying my desires. The life I lead in my teens and early 20’s is one that still scars me to this day, it depresses me. I’m trying to get on board with God’s plan for sexuality and I was recommended this book. To see him called a heretic is disheartening.
 
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