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1ke
Guest
So. It sounds like you don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity yourself.
Stop debating JWs and study.
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Stop debating JWs and study.
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adf417
Guest
You will not see in the bible where there is a Trinity either because that is not what the bible is/was for.
Peace!!!
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Senyorico
Guest
I do and that’s why I went here to ask questions but unfortunately no one has been able to ask my queries. I am still studying and that’s why I ask questions, sorry 
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irenaeuslyons
Guest
If you believe Christ is God, then you have your answer. God is one, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc. There is no such thing as lesser gods. He is either God, or He is not God.
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Senyorico
Guest
How do I cite this from the Bible
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irenaeuslyons
Guest
Revelation refers to his attributes as being the Alpha and Omega and the Almighty
Holy Bible (Douay Rheims)
Rev 1:8 • ‘I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.’
Rev 21:6 • ‘And he said to me: It is done. I am Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end. To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely.’
Holy Bible (Douay Rheims)
Rev 1:8 • ‘I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.’
Rev 21:6 • ‘And he said to me: It is done. I am Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end. To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely.’
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1ke
Guest
I suggest the book Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed.do and that’s why I went here to ask questions but unfortunately no one has been able to ask my queries. I am still studying and that’s why I ask questions, sorry
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1ke
Guest
Why do you think you need to?
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Senyorico
Guest
But how do you understand that passage? 1 Timothy 6:15, just a brief explanation
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Michael16
Guest
@Senyorico,
Honestly, dude: I say go to your priest.
My two cents in 1 Timothy 6:15 is the passage, taken in context with the preceding passages; refers to the end times where God is revealed. But, the passage in the Gospels I’m thinking of refers to how Jesus said: He who has seen Me has seen the Father.
Perhaps this, taken in context with the good fight of faith and the good confession; is an exhortation to persevere in faith professed to the end. Which is eternal life.
Honestly, dude: I say go to your priest.
My two cents in 1 Timothy 6:15 is the passage, taken in context with the preceding passages; refers to the end times where God is revealed. But, the passage in the Gospels I’m thinking of refers to how Jesus said: He who has seen Me has seen the Father.
Perhaps this, taken in context with the good fight of faith and the good confession; is an exhortation to persevere in faith professed to the end. Which is eternal life.
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irenaeuslyons
Guest
St Chrysostom on 1 Tim 6:15
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1ti006.htm#verse15
1 Tim 6:15 • ‘Which in his times he shall shew who is the Blessed and only Mighty, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;’
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1ti006.htm#verse15
1 Tim 6:15 • ‘Which in his times he shall shew who is the Blessed and only Mighty, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;’
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
First of all, everything hinges on the Redemption. Jesus had to be true God as well as true man in order to redeem us. He had to be true God because only God can make infinite satisfaction for an infinite offense i.e. sin. He had to be true man as well in order to act on our behalf because mankind sinned against God.
Therefore, the Eternal Son of God assumed human nature without change in the immaculate womb of the Ever-Virgin Mary and took the Name JESUS on the eighth day after His Birth i.e. today.
Therefore, the Eternal Son of God assumed human nature without change in the immaculate womb of the Ever-Virgin Mary and took the Name JESUS on the eighth day after His Birth i.e. today.
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
Love your avatar btw.
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fhansen
Guest
It’s just a confused and rather shallow theology. Only God can save man-and that’s the point. When you’ve seen Christ, you’ve seen the Father (John 14:9)-there’s no difference in Godhood. Jesus didn’t say, 'when you’ve seen Me you’ve seen a god, but, ‘when you’ve seen Me you’ve seen the Father’. To the extent that we know Jesus, we know God.
Scripture can be argued fairly plausibly both ways-but it helps to know the verses involved. So Google in ‘Scripture for Jesus’ deity’ or some such search-and study that. Jesus is God incarnate, in the flesh. Col 1 can be viewed in more than one light as well perhaps, but you can’t miss the direct association between Jesus and the Father:
“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”
Scripture can be argued fairly plausibly both ways-but it helps to know the verses involved. So Google in ‘Scripture for Jesus’ deity’ or some such search-and study that. Jesus is God incarnate, in the flesh. Col 1 can be viewed in more than one light as well perhaps, but you can’t miss the direct association between Jesus and the Father:
“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”
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Inquiry
Guest
One of the things it sounds like you are having problems with is the classic clash between limitations and omnipotence. Sometimes it seems like God is constrained in some way which would seem to deny His power. When you see those moments it is important to look at where the constraint really is.
Let’s take a different example for the moment. Can God do something evil? No. But does that mean he is limited? No. He has the power to do something evil if He chooses. He has the ability to conceive of evil things. He is in no way limited in power or thought. Instead He cannot do evil because He will not do evil. That’s not who He is. There’s no deficit.
You can apply this to Christ’s apparent lower position than the Father. We are called to honor our parents. Does that make them better than us? Possibly wiser as they have a few decades more experience if they chose to learn from them… but better? No, we are called to honor them because that the nature of parenthood. Christ honors and obeys the Father not because He is less than the Father, but because He is the Son of the Father. It is His Nature, not His limitation.
And if that seems like a stretch, consider: Christ teaches us that Love is found in service and humility; in the strong and powerful humbling themselves for those in their care. As leader he insisted on washing his pupil’s feet; as king he insisted on dying for his subjects. So when you look at Him bowing in obedience to the Father, how can you assume that means He is lesser?
Let’s take a different example for the moment. Can God do something evil? No. But does that mean he is limited? No. He has the power to do something evil if He chooses. He has the ability to conceive of evil things. He is in no way limited in power or thought. Instead He cannot do evil because He will not do evil. That’s not who He is. There’s no deficit.
You can apply this to Christ’s apparent lower position than the Father. We are called to honor our parents. Does that make them better than us? Possibly wiser as they have a few decades more experience if they chose to learn from them… but better? No, we are called to honor them because that the nature of parenthood. Christ honors and obeys the Father not because He is less than the Father, but because He is the Son of the Father. It is His Nature, not His limitation.
And if that seems like a stretch, consider: Christ teaches us that Love is found in service and humility; in the strong and powerful humbling themselves for those in their care. As leader he insisted on washing his pupil’s feet; as king he insisted on dying for his subjects. So when you look at Him bowing in obedience to the Father, how can you assume that means He is lesser?
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EndTimes
Guest
Like Father Like Son - JESUS is the Very WORD and Effulgence of GOD.
More important to Believe than attempt to Prove what actually requires FAITH
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irenaeuslyons
Guest
Thanks, I named one of my sons after him
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
“But as for you, man of God, shun all this; aim at righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. In the presence of God who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; and this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.” ( 1 Timothy 6:10-16 RSV-CE)
When reading the context, one can see that this is not denying Jesus divinity and Omnipotence. First, using logic, if one says that Jesus is not Omnipotent because it says “only Sovereign” speaking of God the Father, then one can assume that no one else has immortality except God the Father since in the same sentence it says, " who alone has immortality". But we know that isn’t true. Jesus is immortal and cannot die ever again: “For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.” (Rom. 6:9) Therefore because the Father was called the only Sovereign does not mean that Jesus is not Sovereign, for St. John says, " they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings". What the verse is pointing to, is that God alone is Sovereign/Almighty. But Jesus is God. Therefore Jesus is Almighty. Some take the next part out of place where it says He dwells in unapproachable light, but Jesus in His true Divine Nature does dwell in unapproachable light, we saw Jesus in his human nature here, not in His full Divine nature.
And what would be wrong with calling the God the only Almighty? He is the only Almighty, right? And since it’s clear Jesus is fully God, not some lesser god like the JW’s say, but fully God in flesh, Jesus is Almighty. This verse doesn’t defeat orthodox theology. It actually supports it.
Lastly, one verse to point out would be John 17:3. It says: “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” If there is only One True God, then what kind of god is Jesus? Jesus is clearly called God, but if there is only one true god, then Jesus must be the only one true God, or else He would be a false god, which is blasphemy. Since the Father is God He is rightly called the only True God, just as Jesus is rightly called the only True God. It’s not disproving anything, just stating a fact.
When reading the context, one can see that this is not denying Jesus divinity and Omnipotence. First, using logic, if one says that Jesus is not Omnipotent because it says “only Sovereign” speaking of God the Father, then one can assume that no one else has immortality except God the Father since in the same sentence it says, " who alone has immortality". But we know that isn’t true. Jesus is immortal and cannot die ever again: “For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.” (Rom. 6:9) Therefore because the Father was called the only Sovereign does not mean that Jesus is not Sovereign, for St. John says, " they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings". What the verse is pointing to, is that God alone is Sovereign/Almighty. But Jesus is God. Therefore Jesus is Almighty. Some take the next part out of place where it says He dwells in unapproachable light, but Jesus in His true Divine Nature does dwell in unapproachable light, we saw Jesus in his human nature here, not in His full Divine nature.
And what would be wrong with calling the God the only Almighty? He is the only Almighty, right? And since it’s clear Jesus is fully God, not some lesser god like the JW’s say, but fully God in flesh, Jesus is Almighty. This verse doesn’t defeat orthodox theology. It actually supports it.
Lastly, one verse to point out would be John 17:3. It says: “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” If there is only One True God, then what kind of god is Jesus? Jesus is clearly called God, but if there is only one true god, then Jesus must be the only one true God, or else He would be a false god, which is blasphemy. Since the Father is God He is rightly called the only True God, just as Jesus is rightly called the only True God. It’s not disproving anything, just stating a fact.
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SeekerOfTruth7
Guest
So clearly Timothy isn’t disproving anything. We believe in One God who is Three Persons. Calling any of the three Persons only Almighty does not mean that the other aren’t, for they are all One Being and Omnipotence has to do with nature not personhood.
Any questions, don’t be afraid to PM me. And i would recommend reading some good books on the Trinity.
God bless!
Any questions, don’t be afraid to PM me. And i would recommend reading some good books on the Trinity.
God bless!
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EndTimes
Guest
Throughout most of the NT - when “GOD” is used .
It appears to me as it God is almost always referring to God The Father… .
Jesus is God’s WORD… Who with the Father assisted in Creation before Jesus’ Nativity.
God’s Word and Lamb is filled with God’s Holy Spirit …
All that God the Father has IS Jesus’s !
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