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Faith101
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Catechism… what is that? is it available online…give me a link! Who wrote it?
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FuzzyBunny116
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FuzzyBunny116
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The Cathechism of the Catholic Church. Just do a google for it. It outlines Catholic doctrine. I can’t say the individual authors. The Vatican, I assume.
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FuzzyBunny116
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Matthew 4:1-10
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1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread." 4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'[a](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204:1-10;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23214a)]"
5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6**"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down.** For it is written:and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’**("http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204:1-10;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23216b")]"
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7Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'[c](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204:1-10;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23217c)]"
8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'[d](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204:1-10;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23220d)]"Matthew 26: 57-67
57Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas, the high priest, where the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled. 58But Peter followed him at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and sat down with the guards to see the outcome. 59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward.
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Finally two came forward 61and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "**I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ,[a](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026:55-70;&version=31;#fen-NIV-24115a)] the Son of God."**
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.
67Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him 68and said, "Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?"
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FuzzyBunny116
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Matthew 33-36
After Jesus walks on water…
33Then those who were in the boat **worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” **
34When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.
He is being worshiped as God, and being called the Son of God. Again, another different son of God. And look at this! He doesn’t stop them! Clearly, if he was NOT God, this would go against the Commandments, and he would have told them not to, but he does not! That is the end of the chapter, by the way.
After Jesus walks on water…
33Then those who were in the boat **worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” **
34When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.
He is being worshiped as God, and being called the Son of God. Again, another different son of God. And look at this! He doesn’t stop them! Clearly, if he was NOT God, this would go against the Commandments, and he would have told them not to, but he does not! That is the end of the chapter, by the way.
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Grace_and_Glory
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Here’s a link to the Cathechism of the Catholic Church.
vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm
The Trinity is a dogma that is beyond human understanding. God is far superior to His creatures, so we will never completely understand Him, but we can try to explain what we know.
There are three Persons in one God. There is one divine nature, and each of the three Persons possesses it completely. The Father is completely God, as is the Son, as is the Spirit. And yet they are not three separate Gods. The Son loves with the Father’s will, for example. Because God is a spirit, He does not exist only in one place. Our souls are immaterial, but we say they are located in our bodies because our souls sustain the life of our body. God sustains the existence of all created things, so we say that God is everywhere. This does not mean that the Persons in the Trinity cannot make presence known in a very particular way in a certain location, as they did at Jesus’ baptism. I know this is probably still confusing, because as I said before, God is always above us. If we could completely understand Him, it would mean that He was not greater than us, because that which is lesser can never fully understand that which is greater.
vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm
The Trinity is a dogma that is beyond human understanding. God is far superior to His creatures, so we will never completely understand Him, but we can try to explain what we know.
There are three Persons in one God. There is one divine nature, and each of the three Persons possesses it completely. The Father is completely God, as is the Son, as is the Spirit. And yet they are not three separate Gods. The Son loves with the Father’s will, for example. Because God is a spirit, He does not exist only in one place. Our souls are immaterial, but we say they are located in our bodies because our souls sustain the life of our body. God sustains the existence of all created things, so we say that God is everywhere. This does not mean that the Persons in the Trinity cannot make presence known in a very particular way in a certain location, as they did at Jesus’ baptism. I know this is probably still confusing, because as I said before, God is always above us. If we could completely understand Him, it would mean that He was not greater than us, because that which is lesser can never fully understand that which is greater.
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Faith101
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Interestingly enough, the imam (leader of prayer) at my masjid on a friday prayer relayed the same story about Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) in order to point out that God tests US not the other way around. But instead of “son of god” it was “if you really believe that God will save you and he is there for you” which makes sense with Jesus saying “do not put your lord to the test”
I dont think its a good idea to depend on Satan for anything, especially to explain one’s belief system. In any case, i understand your point.
Again this is not explaining the difference b/w them. David did not live at the same time, so they didnt get a chance to persecute him. They wanted to kill him b/c he preached in the oneness of God which would take away much of the power they possessed. Same reason why they wanted to kill Abraham and why pharoah wanted to kill Moses and why people wanted to kill Mohamed. The idea that there is a God and he is greater than everything, takes away a lot of power from tyrannical people.
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Faith101
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FuzzyBunny116 said:The Cathechism of the Catholic Church. Just do a google for it. It outlines Catholic doctrine. I can’t say the individual authors. The Vatican, I assume.
In all honesty, I dont know that much about the catholic faith except what they believe about Jesus and Mary…and even that is hard for me to grasp.
There is an old arabic movie, where the professor asks the students “ask me any question you think is important” and people asked him about various things in the topic of his expertise. But one girl asked him “who are you.” Later she explained, that whatever he says has no bearing until she knows where he is coming from. There is a lot of wisdom in that
You said that Christians do not depend solely on the bible to outline their belief, then you referred me to the catechism…but you are unsure of who wrote it? How can this be so…your salvation depends on it! i’ll google it, thanks
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FuzzyBunny116
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I meant I don’t know the individual authors. It was written by the Vatican. Most Christians depend solely on the Bible, but Catholics do not depend solely on the Bible.
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Faith101
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Thanks Fuzzybunny116!Matthew 33-36
After Jesus walks on water…
33Then those who were in the boat **worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” **
34When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.
He is being worshiped as God, and being called the Son of God. Again, another different son of God. And look at this! He doesn’t stop them! Clearly, if he was NOT God, this would go against the Commandments, and he would have told them not to, but he does not! That is the end of the chapter, by the way.
why does the bible call other people son of god if only Jesus was meant to be the “true” son of god? Is it just metaphorical. Are they all taken metaphorically except when it referrs to Jesus?
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FuzzyBunny116
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Again this is not explaining the difference b/w them. David did not live at the same time, so they didnt get a chance to persecute him. They wanted to kill him b/c he preached in the oneness of God which would take away much of the power they possessed. Same reason why they wanted to kill Abraham and why pharoah wanted to kill Moses and why people wanted to kill Mohamed. The idea that there is a God and he is greater than everything, takes away a lot of power from tyrannical people.
What I’m saying is-Jesus claims to be the Son of God in a very special way. They understand David as a “son” of God. By the way, he was their king-they wouldn’t persecute them. What do you mean preached in the oneness of God? That’s what they believed-non Trinity. I don’t remember any threats against Abraham, Moses was to be killed because he went against the Pharoh (sp), and Mohammad spread Islam by the sword. Of course they wanted Mohammad dead. Jesus, though, they used the charge of him saying “Are you the Son of God?” (Their real reasoning they wanted him dead was “Blasphemy” and because they thought he was going to lead some sort of revolt) They meant it in a very special, intimate way. They had no problems claiming David was a ‘son’ of God. They apparantly had problems with Christ saying he is the Son of God. Apparantly, there are two different kinds. Remember those persecuting him were Jews. Their power and influence relys on God’s power.
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FuzzyBunny116
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I cannot say, but nonetheless, he claims to be the Son of God-the Messiah, Son of God. He is worshiped, as shown above, and he does not stop them. Last time I checked, he is the only worshipped son of God. We are all children of God, remember. He was a special case.
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FuzzyBunny116
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Matthew 28:8-10
8So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”
John 9:35-39
35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”
Luke 24:50-53
50When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
Again, Jesus is worshiped, and again, he does not scold them. These can be multiplied, but I think this is enough.
8So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”
John 9:35-39
35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”
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37Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
38Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."50When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
Again, Jesus is worshiped, and again, he does not scold them. These can be multiplied, but I think this is enough.
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FuzzyBunny116
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Son of Man, in case you were wondering (I had always wondered too:hmmm 
) is an allusion to here:
Daniel 7:10-14
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened. 11 "Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)
) is an allusion to here:Daniel 7:10-14
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened. 11 "Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)
13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a **son of man**, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
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FuzzyBunny116
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I’m going to go now, though. Its late, and I haven’t done my prayers today. If I keep arguing, I won’t be able to concetrate once I’m done on my prayers. There seem to be enough people willing to engage in debate here for me, anyhow.
Take it easy!
There seem to be enough people willing to engage in debate here for me, anyhow.Take it easy!
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FuzzyBunny116
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exoflare
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exoflare
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That’s a good question, and one I don’t know all the details to at the moment. But I do know that for a time Jesus was supposed to “hide” his divinity from people until the time was right to reveal it to them. Check out this passage from Luke’s gospel:
[4:40]
At sunset, all who had people sick with various diseases brought them to him. He laid his hands on each of them and cured them. [41] And demons also came out from many, shouting, “You are the Son of God.” But he rebuked them and did not allow them to speak because they knew that he was the Messiah.
I used to read this verse and think, “Jesus, it’s too late! They blew your cover!” And then it was brought to my attention the interpretation of “son of God” that you just mentioned, so in that case it actually helped to explain things. The people just assumed it was the interpretation the demons were using at the time.
I’m not sure what exactly the first clue was that Jesus was the “Son of God” in a begotten sense rather than through a covenant. But as I asked my Muslim friend here at home, why would the Sanhedrin (Jewish courts) give Jesus over to the Roman government to be executed? He was starting a revolution, but the justification they used among their own people for accomplishing this was that Jesus was a blasphemer, claiming to be God himself. What makes this more significant is that rather than denying this charge (and avoiding execution, not to mention!) when accused of this by the Sanhedrin, Jesus responds thusly:
[Luke 22:67]
They said, “If you are the Messiah, tell us,” but he replied to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe, [68] and if I question, you will not respond. [69] But from this time on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.” [70] They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied to them, “You say that I am.” [71] Then they said, "What further need have we for testimony? We have heard it from his own mouth."
“You say that I am.” … think about what a blatant slap in the face that was to his persecutors. He wasn’t afraid of those guys at all!
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hlgomez
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Although I already answered this in another thread, I would like to repost this again:
Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the Son
Exodus 3:14- God says “I AM who I AM”
John 8:58 - Jesus says “Before Abraham was, I AM.” in reference to Himself.
Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word
Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.
Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up
John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.
Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God’s hand
John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus’ hand.
Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him
Heb. 1:6- the “Him” is Jesus the Son.
2 Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation
Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.
Psalm 19:7 - the law of the Lord is perfect
Gal. 6:2 - fulfill the law of Christ.
Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory
1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.
Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son
Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.
Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work
Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.
Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope
1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.
Psalm 89:27 – I will make him the first-born, the highest (“elyon” which refers to God) of the kings of the earth
John 18:36-27 – Jesus is this first-born king.
Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all
John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.
Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the Son
Exodus 3:14- God says “I AM who I AM”
John 8:58 - Jesus says “Before Abraham was, I AM.” in reference to Himself.
Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word
Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.
Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up
John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.
Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God’s hand
John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus’ hand.
Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him
Heb. 1:6- the “Him” is Jesus the Son.
2 Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation
Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.
Psalm 19:7 - the law of the Lord is perfect
Gal. 6:2 - fulfill the law of Christ.
Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory
1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.
Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son
Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.
Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work
Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.
Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope
1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.
Psalm 89:27 – I will make him the first-born, the highest (“elyon” which refers to God) of the kings of the earth
John 18:36-27 – Jesus is this first-born king.
Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all
John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.
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