Christ Did NOT make Peter the head of the church

[Even_So]

Man, i blew thru a few of these but many make this is all to confusing so let us try to simplify it.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus did not say upon your rock. Jesus asked Peter who Peter thought Jesus was.
Now we go back three verses.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Again, Jesus says upon this rock. The rock is not any person(s), but faith. How did God reveal it? Thru the Holy Spirit! Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. If we have faith and accept Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Savior of us and the world, then we receive the Holy Spirit in our evil hearts and should have no fear of going to hell. Satan has no power over us. Now we can be assured of everlasting life. Of course, we have to walk the walk if we talk the talk…

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Man, i blew thru a few of these but many make this is all to confusing so let us try to simplify it.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus did not say upon your rock. Jesus asked Peter who Peter thought Jesus was.
Now we go back three verses.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Again, Jesus says upon this rock. The rock is not any person(s), but faith. How did God reveal it? Thru the Holy Spirit! Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. If we have faith and accept Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Savior of us and the world, then we receive the Holy Spirit in our evil hearts and should have no fear of going to hell. Satan has no power over us. Now we can be assured of everlasting life. Of course, we have to walk the walk if we talk the talk…

I disagree after looking at language translations of words but willing to agree to disagree.

 

[steve_b]

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus did not say upon your rock. Jesus asked Peter who Peter thought Jesus was.

Jesus said upon “this rock”.

Jesus changed Simon’s name to Rock. John 1:42 , Κηφᾶς,
E:

Now we go back three verses.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Again, Jesus says upon this rock. The rock is not any person(s), but faith.

It’s Peter and his faith. Jesus is speaking directly to Peter.
E:

. If we have faith and accept Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Savior of us and the world,

If you believe that why aren’t you Catholic? The Holy Spirit isn’t the author of division from Our Lord’s Church. The HS speaks only what He gets from Jesus .John 16:12-15 . And Jesus doesn’t want ANY division from what He established John 17:20-23. All the confusion and divisions of protestantism didn’t come from Jesus. Division from Our Lord’s Church is actually condemned in scripture. (Paul writing to the Church of Rome )
Romans 16:17-20 condemning those who διχοστασίας dichostasia*= division / dissension / factions /sedition *from the Church
E:

then we receive the Holy Spirit in our evil hearts and should have no fear of going to hell. Satan has no power over us.

Who told you that? Do you still sin? Jesus never promised that Satan wouldn’t be able to sift us like wheat. If one dies in mortal sin they won’t be going to heaven. That’s scripture.
E:

Now we can be assured of everlasting life. Of course, we have to walk the walk if we talk the talk…

IOW, “everlasting life”, is **not **assured, it’s an “IF” one perseveres till the end.

 

[Even_So]

Jesus said upon “this rock”.

Jesus changed Simon’s name to Rock. John 1:42 , Κηφᾶς,

Like Seeker 2014 said. But if you are heck bent on proving me wrong, that’s fine. Just one man’s point of view. Peter’s nickname is stone and his faith was rock solid. Or maybe he was thick a a brick sometimes by speaking before thinking. Or maybe he couldn’t catch a football.

It’s Peter and his faith. Jesus is speaking directly to Peter.

That He is.

If you believe that why aren’t you Catholic? The Holy Spirit isn’t the author of division from Our Lord’s Church. The HS speaks only what He gets from Jesus .John 16:12-15 . And Jesus doesn’t want ANY division from what He established John 17:20-23. All the confusion and divisions of protestantism didn’t come from Jesus. Division from Our Lord’s Church is actually condemned in scripture. (Paul writing to the Church of Rome )
Romans 16:17-20 condemning those who διχοστασίας dichostasia*= division / dissension / factions /sedition *from the Church

Many a Protestant has told you why we are not Catholic. I do not want a war of words on this beaten horse but will tell you what i think if you wish. I will say one thing i have learned here is the CC is the only way to Salvation. And again, as Seeker2014 said. I believe Satan as the author of division. But what did Jesus mean by this:
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
Another thing i learned is there is dissension in your church also. I thought all Catholics were on the same page, but not so. You have several denominations of your own.

Who told you that? Do you still sin? Jesus never promised that Satan wouldn’t be able to sift us like wheat. If one dies in mortal sin they won’t be going to heaven. That’s scripture.

I don’t know where i ever implied i don’t sin. You no know me too well, obviously. I believe Satan can play head games, but not force me to do anything.
Jesus is the sifter, as in the parable of the sower.
I have yet to read Job, unfortunately, but wasn’t Satan allowed to take his family but leave him alone?
I believe Satan can cause commotion in our churches, and even burn them down. Discouraging, but not a game changer.
I try to stay very humble about entering God’s Kingdom and still have my doubts about going, and believe it’s healthy to think that unlike a few people i have known . But i used to live my life knowing i was going to hell, even though i accepted Jesus into my heart as my savior while a child. That’s no way to live, my friend. That’s my conviction by the Holy Spirit.

IOW, “everlasting life”, is **not **assured, it’s an “IF” one perseveres till the end.

Yessir, that’s what i thought i said.

Too hard for me to figure out how to do the quotes and i don’t want to take the time.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Too hard for me to figure out how to do the quotes and i don’t want to take the time.

How to use the Catholic Answers Forum Quote Function

If you want to respond to something that someone else posted, you can simply hit the “Quote” button on the lower right…not the “Post Reply” button on the lower left. Simply begin typing after the text that the forum automatically copies for you. That’s what I did at the beginning of this post above.

If you want to insert your comments into the middle of something you are quoting, you have to manually insert square brackets. Here is the original passage I want to comment on:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot, and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.

In order to show you what you need to do, I have to use a different set of brackets for illustrative purposes only. I’ll use { and } instead of and ] so that you can see where the brackets should be located, and I’ll insert my comments in red text.

{quote}Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot,{/quote} I’m inserting my comments here in red. {quote}and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.{/quote} Hope this helps.

Now, wherever you see the { or } you have to actually use a square bracket or ]. So the paragraph above comes out like this:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot,

I’m inserting my comments here in red.

and everywhere that Mary went his sooty foot he put.

Hope this helps.

One more thing: the quote function will automatically insert the name of the person to whom you are replying so that person can find your response more easily.

 

[spina1953]

How to use the Catholic Answers Forum Quote Function

If you want to respond to something that someone else posted, you can simply hit the “Quote” button on the lower right…not the “Post Reply” button on the lower left. Simply begin typing after the text that the forum automatically copies for you. That’s what I did at the beginning of this post above.

If you want to insert your comments into the middle of something you are quoting, you have to manually insert square brackets. Here is the original passage I want to comment on:

Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot, and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.

In order to show you what you need to do, I have to use a different set of brackets for illustrative purposes only. I’ll use { and } instead of and ] so that you can see where the brackets should be located, and I’ll insert my comments in red text.

{quote}Mary had a little lamb whose fleece was black as soot,{/quote} I’m inserting my comments here in red. {quote}and everywhere that Mary went, his sooty foot he put.{/quote} Hope this helps.

Now, wherever you see the { or } you have to actually use a square bracket or ]. So the paragraph above comes out like this:

I’m inserting my comments here in red. Hope this helps.

One more thing: the quote function will automatically insert the name of the person to whom you are replying so that person can find your response more easily.

Hi Randy: Thanks for the lesson as I really did not know how to do what you so very well showed how it is done. Again thanks!

 

[rinnie]

and dude…he was not being strongly rebuked for thinking he was in charge…he LOVED Jesus… He didn’t want to see Him harmed.

Don’t be too tough on our brother Peter.

This really hits home on scripture in a different way, which came to mind to me when I read it. Peter was acting human when he did not want Jesus dead, which of us could honestly say we would not be the same way.

But what people don’t realize Peter could speak divine like Christ when God gives him this power.

Like when he said who Jesus was, the Son of God, as Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that but my Father in heaven.

Or like This is where Authority sets in and now Peter KNOWS he has it. Jesus asked him a question 3 times, and until he answered the question not as a HUMAN would but someone whom was Divine did he give Christ the correct answer.

Do you love me ? Yes
Do you love me? Yes
Do you love me? Lord YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, you KNOW I love you.

Peter indeed was the first to receive the power of the Holy Spirit from the beginning and had it until his end and passed it on to the next Pope. ITs history, its truth, and its our Church gift from God.

The Pope indeed has the power to speak in the voice of Christ. What other Bishop claims to speak perfect when in the name of God except the Pope? IF anyone can show me anyone claiming this power show it.

 

[rinnie]

Man, i blew thru a few of these but many make this is all to confusing so let us try to simplify it.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus did not say upon your rock. Jesus asked Peter who Peter thought Jesus was.
Now we go back three verses.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Again, Jesus says upon this rock. The rock is not any person(s), but faith. How did God reveal it? Thru the Holy Spirit! Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin. If we have faith and accept Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Savior of us and the world, then we receive the Holy Spirit in our evil hearts and should have no fear of going to hell. Satan has no power over us. Now we can be assured of everlasting life. Of course, we have to walk the walk if we talk the talk…

Unfortunately a lot of us Catholic’s do have this fear of hell, we are more like St Paul fear and trembling. We don’t know how God will judge us, we can only pray and ask our Dear Blessed Mother and Saints and all of the world to pray that God will indeed extend his mercy.

We indeed have received the Holy Spirit into our hearts and pray it will lead us into the promise land, but by no means underestimate the power of Satan. We know he can pull many tricks, and it is the tricks he pulls and the underestimation of him that makes that walk and talk quite difficult.

 

[pablope]

Man, i blew thru a few of these but many make this is all to confusing so let us try to simplify it.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus did not say upon your

 

[paperwight66]

Hi Randy: Thanks for the lesson as I really did not know how to do what you so very well showed how it is done. Again thanks!

And thanks from me, too, Randy. Next lesson, please - how do I get my comments within the quote to appear in colour?

 

[Randy_Carson]

And thanks from me, too, Randy. Next lesson, please - how do I get my comments within the quote to appear in colour?

Highlight the passage in the quote above and choose the size, bold, italic or color option you want from the tool bar just above the window where you are typing.

 

[spina1953]

Highlight the passage in the quote above and choose the size, bold, italic or color option you want from the tool bar just above the window where you are typing.

Hi Randy: Again thanks for the lesson, I know that I did not know how to do that!

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi Randy: Again thanks for the lesson, I know that I did not know how to do that!

:tiphat:

 

[futurepriest03]

Jesus Christ our Lord and savior did make Peter the head of the Catholic Church.[BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

 

[KathleenGee]

It is most clear in Sacred Scriptures that of all the apostles, Peter is the most mentioned, and is named Peter by our Lord and upon Peter — Christ the Cornerstone — the Lord instituted His carnate, visible Church!

 

[Peter_J]

You can search the thread for the word “rock” and just read the relevant posts.

Don’t quote me on this, but rumor has it that there are even source of information that aren’t on discussion forums – and in some cases not even on the internet. :coolinoff:

 

[Peter_J]

I am not about to read this whole thread… but!
I have heard from some protestants the reason why they believe Peter was not the first Pope was because the first ‘rock’-Peter- mentioned was a different greek word than the second ‘rock’ mentioned.
The first ‘rock’-Peter- meaning ‘little rock’
While the second ‘rock’ meaning large rock or foundation’

biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/16-18.htm

“Thou art the Christ,” so I say unto thee, etc. Thou art Peter (Πέτρος, Petrus), and upon this rock (πέτρα, petra) I will build my Church. In classical Greek, the distinction between πέτρα and πέτρος is well known - the former meaning “a rock,” the latter “a piece of rock,” or “a stone.” **But probably no such distinction is intended here,
**

If I may say, this ^^ isn’t something I often hear from Protestants. (Granted, I don’t know for sure that you’re protestant, I’m just inferring that from other things you’ve said.)

 

[Randy_Carson]

If I may say, this ^^ isn’t something I often hear from Protestants. (Granted, I don’t know for sure that you’re protestant, I’m just inferring that from other things you’ve said.)

Yeah, petra v. petros.

However, this has been de-bunked by modern scholars who have concluded that there was no distinction in the usage of the words by the time of the first century.

Besides, Jesus said, “kepha” not “petros”.

 

[adrift]

Yeah, petra v. petros.

However, this has been de-bunked by modern scholars who have concluded that there was no distinction in the usage of the words by the time of the first century.

Besides, Jesus said, “kepha” not “petros”.

He said Kepha but according to TheSeeker it was Kepha and Kephas

biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/16-18.htm

“Thou art the Christ,” so I say unto thee, etc. Thou art Peter (Πέτρος, Petrus), and upon this rock (πέτρα, petra) I will build my Church. In classical Greek, the distinction between πέτρα and πέτρος is well known - the former meaning “a rock,” the latter “a piece of rock,” or “a stone.” But probably no such distinction is intended here, as there would be none in Aramaic. There is plainly a paronomasia here in the Greek; and, if our Lord spoke in Aramaic, the same play of words was exhibited in Kephas or kepha. When Jesus first called Peter to be a disciple, he imposed upon him the name Cephas, which the evangelist explains to be Peter (John 1:42).
biblehub.com/matthew/16-18.htm

.

 

[Randy_Carson]

In classical Greek, the distinction between πέτρα and πέτρος is well known - the former meaning “a rock,” the latter “a piece of rock,” or “a stone.” But probably no such distinction is intended here, as there would be none in Aramaic.

Personally I have no opinion on the topic… I am just open to learn.I would also love to hear a good Catholic Rebuttal on this because I have been very curious about this script.

Petros in Homer’s Greek

According to Protestant apologists, the Greek word petra means “large rock” whereas the word petros means only a small stone or pebble. If true, this distinction would be significant since Matthew 16:18-19 refers to Peter as petros; consequently, the claim is made that Peter was only a small, insignificant stone or pebble and not the rock upon which Jesus promised to build His Church.

However, in The Illiad, the ancient Greek author, Homer, used petros to describe a very large stone. From The Illiad, Chapter 20, Lines 285-290:

285σμερδαλέα ἰάχων: ὃ δὲ χερμάδιον λάβε χειρὶ
286Αἰνείας, μέγα ἔργον, ὃ οὐ δύο γ᾽ ἄνδρε φέροιεν,
287οἷοι νῦν βροτοί εἰσ᾽: ὃ δέ μιν ῥέα πάλλε καὶ οἶος.
288ἔνθά κεν Αἰνείας μὲν ἐπεσσύμενον βάλε πέτρῳ
289ἢ κόρυθ᾽ ἠὲ σάκος, τό οἱ ἤρκεσε λυγρὸν ὄλεθρον,
290τὸν δέ κε Πηλεΐδης σχεδὸν ἄορι θυμὸν ἀπηύρα,

The last word in line 288 is petros. Was this a small stone, easily hefted? Homer has a far different image in mind. Here is the full passage translated into English:

But Achilles drew his sharp sword and leapt upon him furiously, [285] crying a terrible cry; and Aeneas grasped in his hand a stone—a mighty deed—one that not two mortals could bear, such as men are now; yet lightly did he wield it even alone. Then would Aeneas have smitten him with the stone, as he rushed upon him, either on helm or on the shield that had warded from him woeful destruction, [290] and the son of Peleus in close combat would with his sword have

classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.20.xx.html

Homer uses two words for the “rock” or “stone” that was described as being so large that it would require two normal men to lift. The second word in the passage above is petros. So, Homer sees petros as a movable stone but one that is by no means small.

Based upon a posting by Huiou Theou: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=45207&highlight=Homer