Christ is everything

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underdog said:
Thank you Ralph, I agree with everything that you posted. I will take a break for awhile. I was very worried until I read your posting. Orthodox Roman Catholicism is actually very good. It is the distortion of it that worries me greatly.

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For the record…I hope you do not view my posts as a “distortion.” What Raphinal said is precisely what I’ve been saying, though he summed it up much more eloquently:)
What is this "distortion" you see, and why does it worry you?
 
AshleyBelle said:
Nobody is “destined” to hell. Why do you believe God creates some with the destiny for damnation?
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I’ll let you wrestle with the Scripture for yourself for awhile.

1 Peter 2:8

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
 
AshleyBelle said:
For the record…I hope you do not view my posts as a “distortion.” What Raphinal said is precisely what I’ve been saying, though he summed it up much more eloquently:)
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 What is this "distortion" you see, and why does it worry you?
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Ashley, you are not even close to what Ralph posted. If anybody cares, all they need to do is read the postings over again.
 
underdog said:
I’ll let you wrestle with the Scripture for yourself for awhile.

1 Peter 2:8

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
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Why must I wrestle with the scripture? It is the Word of God… it doesn’t bring about unrest in my heart, but comfort and peace:)
 
Please, if I have gone “off base” as underdog seems to think… I would be open to hear replies from the other Catholics who may be more knowledgeable than I on these forums.
But, I think ultimately, I can speak for most of us, that we believe only the Holy Spirit may "convert" anyone.. and that it is not our place to judge heaven or hell on anybody. But that we are to see Christ in all people, and to BE Christ for all people:)
 
AshleyBelle said:
Please, if I have gone “off base” as underdog seems to think… I would be open to hear replies from the other Catholics who may be more knowledgeable than I on these forums.
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But, I think ultimately, I can speak for most of us, that we believe only the Holy Spirit may "convert" anyone.. and that it is not our place to judge heaven or hell on anybody. But that we are to see Christ in all people, and to BE Christ for all people:)
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Nah, you’re fine.

Just so long as you do not say that those without Christ are in the same state as those with him, or that all roads lead to heaven…
 
ralphinal said:
Nah, you’re fine.

Just so long as you do not say that those without Christ are in the same state as those with him, or that all roads lead to heaven…
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Ok thank you:)

I think underdog is assuming I believe the latter of your post… Because I think Christ may make himself manifest in the hearts of people, even if they do not recognize Him AS Christ. What we know and understand about truth, doesn’t change that truth… I have held firm that the only way for salvation is through Jesus! But I think he is confused, because I have repeated that we cannot be the judges of in whom, or how Jesus has revealed Himself to individuals.

Does that make sense?
 
AshleyBelle said:
Ok thank you:)

I think underdog is assuming I believe the latter of your post… Because I think Christ may make himself manifest in the hearts of people, even if they do not recognize Him AS Christ. What we know and understand about truth, doesn’t change that truth… I have held firm that the only way for salvation is through Jesus! But I think he is confused, because I have repeated that we cannot be the judges of in whom, or how Jesus has revealed Himself to individuals.

Does that make sense?
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Yes.

If he wants to, he should read about Melchesidec in the OT.
 
ralphinal said:
Nah, you’re fine.

Just so long as you do not say that those without Christ are in the same state as those with him, or that all roads lead to heaven…
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That’s a good rule to follow when you discuss things with non-Catholic Christians. Because the U stands for our vital union with Christ.
 
underdog said:
That’s a good rule to follow when you discuss things with non-Catholic Christians. Because the U stands for our vital union with Christ.
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Death in Adam, Life in Christ

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Of course we are to proclaim the gospel with gentleness and respect. The message of the gospel is an offense to those who are in the flesh when proclaimed. If you speak the truth in love with gentlenss and respect, you will be persecuted as a pomise by Jesus. Here is some help from Jesus for those who do not believe. The gospel is the power of God for salvation for those who believe, and an offense to those who are perishing.

You Are of Your Father the Devil

They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
 
Just proclaim the gospel with gentless and respect. More insight for you by Jesus. The most hateful thing you can do is to withold the gospel from your Muslim and Chinese friend. Perescution is part of the privlidge of bringing the good news to the lost.

Persecution Will Come
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant [4] above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign [5] those of his household.

Have No Fear
26 “So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. [6] 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? [7] And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
 
underdog said:
Just proclaim the gospel with gentless and respect. More insight for you by Jesus. The most hateful thing you can do is to withold the gospel from your Muslim and Chinese friend. Perescution is part of the privlidge of bringing the good news to the lost.

Persecution Will Come
16 “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant [4] above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign [5] those of his household.

Have No Fear
26 “So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. [6] 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? [7] And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
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She didn’t say she was “witholding” the gospel. But sometimes, it is important to remember that we share Christ through our relatsionships. You cannot just beat somebody over the head with a Bible, when they are not ready (prepared by the Holy Spirit) to hear it! We are to LIVE as Christ would want us to, and share His love… sharing His gospel through our relationships with one another. We can use words when necesary, but most of this is done through our actions.
 
It comes back to this: preach the Gospel constantly and if needed, use words.

If CHrist is everything, why not do as he did? Live the life you preach.

Now, if Christ is everything, why do you disobay him? He said that if you loved him you would keep his commandments…
 
Personally, I find a lot “hero worthy” about our blessed mother:)

If I had to choose an image for the “Catholic super hero” theme, I would find one of the paintings that portray our Lord, crucified, and His mother at the foot of the cross!
 
underdog said:
The Bridegroom is superior and supreme over His bride. The Spirit is purifying His bride through the washing of the Word. We need to always remember Christ is the head, and we are His body. The Church is not the head and the body. We proclaim Him and not the church to each other and the world. It sure seems Catholics continue to proclaim the church as compared to Jesus Christ. Thus, we have this thread.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
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I’m sorry; I missed this post earlier. Catholics do not separate the Bride from the Bridegroom nor place the Bride above her Head as others stated in response to this post. The mystical Body of Christ is unspotted and without wrinkle. She sojourns in the ragged flesh of sinners redeemed by their Saviour’s Blood.
 
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