P
pro_universal
Guest
I certainly do not find it obnoxious, just unusual and to me, does not ring true.
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K
Keikiolu
Guest
Satan called that famous fruit in the garden of Eden a “fruit”, which agrees with what God said it was.
The question is not what God and Satan agree on, but what use they put to those things they “agree” on.
God said to help ALL the poor,… Satan said to help “OUR” poor.
Revelation was exposed over time, a piece at a time. Their God is indeed God, but their understanding of God (as Catholics know it to be in it’s fullness) is deficient.
Your basic problem is the problem of discerning those who have learned the truth from those who have erred from the truth, from those who have been deceived from the truth.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
B
Bishopite
Guest
Actually that analogy is false. Both of those people are mere created creatures, Jesus is divine and eternal. Comparing Jesus to any mere human is comparing finite to infinite.
B
Bishopite
Guest
It’s not a question of either or but both and. If one by faith trusts in Jesus one does live by moral or ethical teachings which are doctrinal teachings, and that consists of feeding the poor.
This is taught in Mt 25:34-40
“Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’”
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
False dilema.
Christ emptied Himself of His riches to feed them to us.
We let this mind be in us which was in Christ Jesus (Philipians 2.5)
Therefore we empty ourselves to feed Christ in the poor.
Abstract moral precepts have limited milage. The stats comparing secular and religious charity show that.
It doesn’t matter whether Christ was crucified in 33 or 26 or 29 AD.
How the fact of His Crucifixion effects me matters a great deal.
P
pro_universal
Guest
Of course it can be both and. But that doesn’t really address the point I was making.
The substance of faith is acknowledging a historical event (crucifixion) and that Jesus was God; everything follows from that. I don’t deny that Christians believe it’s good to help the poor-but you seem to be acknowleding that the core belief is in Jesus’s divinity and death, and that other things follow from it.
So I maintain the point: Christianity is first and foremost about believing a man is God, and that he died. Believing that it’s right to do good deeds is secondary too, and indeed only proceeds from that belief.
P
pro_universal
Guest
Again, there is no “dilemma” or any dichotomy as I see it. I’m just pointing out that the root of Christian faith is believing in a historical fact and that God is a man, rather than believing that any number of laws are commanded by God.
I do agree that it’s harder to just believe that God commanded something and that it’s the law, period. It’s certainly much easier for people to worship a charismatic figure, and then to use that figure as a role model.
M
Montalban
Guest
This won’t fully answer you, but…
There are two verses that indicate that some parts of the Koran were abrogated.
2:106
Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.
16:101
And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.
Generally speaking when two verses seem to contradict then the latter ones are taken as truer to the wishes of Al-lah.
Most of the war-like verses come latter.
M
Montalban
Guest
His actual death and rising was an act of love. Without love he wouldn’t have done this to redeem us. They are linked; the act, and why he did it.
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
You forgot that “and that He rose again from the dead” part. It’s the punch line.
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Not me, but Christ in me.
B
Bishopite
Guest
You are dividing “believing” with “good works” which is NOT Christianity. I submit that “Believing” is a verb not just an adjective therefore to believe is to act, to do, so it is not secondary but primary as believing and helping the poor are one in the same.
This is metioned in James 2:14-24 that those who say they believe but don’t feed
“14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. 18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe–and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? 21* Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23* and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
Also, James 1:27 mentions what IS true religion (Christianity)…"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. "
A
Ahimsa
Guest
I’ll start a new thread on abrogation, which is a deep topic.
T
thistle
Guest
Christ is God but Mohammed was Satan’s best student!!
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are brothers in prophethood assigned to them by GodAllahYHWH. They had the same covenant, the same mission and the same teachings and no differences between them any whatsoever.
Jesus neither gave my Catholics friends a Book written all by him or authored by him or authenticated by him; nor did Jesus give any Church to my Catholics friends, until they erected one at Rome and made a Book now called NTBible; courtesy Paul and associates.
Thanks
**The ultimate truth is that GodAllahYHWH is absolute Truth and other things exist only in relation to Him and created by HIM.
The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir**
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Thank you, paarsurrey, for your beliefs stated (just above). Whether or not they are the “ultimate truth” is debatable (and, dare I say, laughable). But why are you changing the subject of the discussion? Even your quote from Flying Bison has nothing to do with your post. 
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The subject is mentioned in the start of the post; and it remains untouched by me.
These are shortcuts to bridge gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics; and these consist of excerpts from my own previous posts in the forum where the discussion remained unwound up for reasons.
I search for Truth; this is a tool of my search for it.
It is a dessert after a refreshing meal.
P
Palladio
Guest
You have so many facts wrong–the last one, for instance–that your attempt to bridge gaps, as you put it, seems very insincere and is anyway doomed to fail.
By the way, the gap between Catholicism and Islam is insuperable: we neither need nor want Islam, which is a false religion with the clearest example of a false prophet in Mohammed in history.
Not meaning to be rude, but I cannot help but think that you are wasting your time here.
God bless you to know the truth.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
May GodAllahYHWH bless you also and guide you also to the truest path He knows to be.
Thanks
Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
P
Palladio
Guest
Again, your ignorance–still not sure of your motives–belies you message of gap bridging: all you show is that you do not understand the Bible.
In your ignorance, on a Catholic website you misuse the Bible to deny the divinity of Christ.
Please kindly keep your ignorant and disgusting views to yourself.
I will pray for your conversion.
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