Christ vs. Mohammed

[paarsurrey]

I will pray for your conversion.

Hi

There is no harm if you pray for me, in fact you should have started praying for me even earlier. You are most welcome.

May GodAllahYHWH bless you also and guide you to the truest of His paths and bestow on you the sweetest of His fruits in this world and in the hereafter!

Thanks

I often give excerpts from the writings of the PromisedMessiah, to make it convenient for my Catholic friends to convert me to your cherished faith, if you refute his arguments and your arguments exceed that of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s arguments; I being steadfast on my faith, keep a window or a door open to welcome the truth from anywhere it comes to me. The Catholics are in this way in direct contest with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

 

[Ibn_Taymiya]

Previous threads tried to address this opposition by saying that Christianity was all rational and Islam is irrational.

I am a new comer, but I will show you the opposite Insha Allah.

Mohammed began preaching a peaceful Islam in Mecca, but was thrown out of Mecca and went to Medina. In Medina he gained a large following and an Army. Once he had power, Islam changed and became violent to outsiders. He killed and murdered unbelievers, and forced people who did not bend to his will to accept dhimmitude status (submissive) status and pay a Jizya (tax to the muslims).

Every stage has its right act, for example, Israelites at the age of the Pharoah, or the Babylonian captivity can’t act the same way they acted at the age of David or Joshua. It is the same way, in the beginning the Arab pagans were powerful, and if he tried to fight them, all Muslims will be killed, and God’s religion will vanish, so it is not wise to do something like that, and in the same time, it has nothing to do with hypocrisy, as Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was declaring monotheism, and rebuking the pagans for their idols that don’t benefit or harm, and he was tortured for that, but he was ordered to be patient for the reason I showed above, when he went to Medina, that reason is no longer, and he was ordered to fight the disbelievers so that all people can practise Islam safely, and that the world is submitted to God, and that the disbelievers become weak sects. Fighting the unbelievers is accepted in the Bible:
Deu 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thy heart, dost thou go in to possess their land; but for the wickedness of these nations Jehovah thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may establish the word which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah; of David and Samuel and the prophets: Heb 11:33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, waxed mighty in war, turned to flight armies of aliens.

Mohammed also, claimed that all words from God were corrupted over time and that he had the true revelation.From Islamic history none the less, Mohammed seems to have changed his story once he got power, He could not support his claims with history, so he just stated all other books were corrupted. This is a common way to avoid providing evidence for ones belief.

We believe that lots of interpolations happened in your books, this doesn’t mean that they don’t contain true scripts, they have some truth, but also have false scripts. I myself see this very clear within the Bible, we may have a different thread to discuss it.
Besides, Muhammad (Peace be upon him) argued a lot with the Jews and Christians, and many of them acknowledged that he is a prophet.

Mohammed became powerful, rich, and had many wifes (more than other muslims are allowed by the way).

Muhammad (Peace be upon him) didn’t fight for money or power or wives, Arabs offered all this for him to stop preaching, he refused and kept on preaching, and when he had money he kept on spending them on the poor and didn’t leave anything for himself, Ibn Abbas narrates:

The Prophet was the most generous of all the people, and he used to become more generous in Ramadan when Gabriel met him. Gabriel used to meet him every night during Ramadan to revise the Qur’an with him. Allah’s Apostle then used to be more generous than the fast wind.

The life of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was very simple, Aa’isha, Prophet’s wife, said, “O my nephew, we would sight three new moons in two months without lighting a fire (to cook a meal) in the Prophet’s houses.” Her nephew asked, “O Aunt, what sustained you?” She said, “The two black things, dates and water, but the Prophet had some Ansar neighbors who had milk-giving she-camels and they used to send the Prophet some of its milk.”

Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was very modest, he was never seen extending his legs infront of his disciples, and he refused that they stand up when he comes, his life was very simple, he used to milk his goat,mend his clothes, repair his shoes, help with the household work,and visit poor people when they got sick. He also helped his companions in digging a trench by moving sand with them. His life was an amazing model of simplicity and humbleness.

 

[Booklover]

I am a new comer, but I will show you the opposite Insha Allah.

Every stage has its right act, for example, Israelites at the age of the Pharoah, or the Babylonian captivity can’t act the same way they acted at the age of David or Joshua. It is the same way, in the beginning the Arab pagans were powerful, and if he tried to fight them, all Muslims will be killed, and God’s religion will vanish, so it is not wise to do something like that, and in the same time, it has nothing to do with hypocrisy, as Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was declaring monotheism, and rebuking the pagans for their idols that don’t benefit or harm, and he was tortured for that, but he was ordered to be patient for the reason I showed above, when he went to Medina, that reason is no longer, and he was ordered to fight the disbelievers so that all people can practise Islam safely, and that the world is submitted to God, and that the disbelievers become weak sects. Fighting the unbelievers is accepted in the Bible:
Deu 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thy heart, dost thou go in to possess their land; but for the wickedness of these nations Jehovah thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may establish the word which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah; of David and Samuel and the prophets: Heb 11:33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, waxed mighty in war, turned to flight armies of aliens.

We believe that lots of interpolations happened in your books, this doesn’t mean that they don’t contain true scripts, they have some truth, but also have false scripts. I myself see this very clear within the Bible, we may have a different thread to discuss it.
Besides, Muhammad (Peace be upon him) argued a lot with the Jews and Christians, and many of them acknowledged that he is a prophet.

Muhammad (Peace be upon him) didn’t fight for money or power or wives, Arabs offered all this for him to stop preaching, he refused and kept on preaching, and when he had money he kept on spending them on the poor and didn’t leave anything for himself, Ibn Abbas narrates:

The Prophet was the most generous of all the people, and he used to become more generous in Ramadan when Gabriel met him. Gabriel used to meet him every night during Ramadan to revise the Qur’an with him. Allah’s Apostle then used to be more generous than the fast wind.

The life of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was very simple, Aa’isha, Prophet’s wife, said, “O my nephew, we would sight three new moons in two months without lighting a fire (to cook a meal) in the Prophet’s houses.” Her nephew asked, “O Aunt, what sustained you?” She said, “The two black things, dates and water, but the Prophet had some Ansar neighbors who had milk-giving she-camels and they used to send the Prophet some of its milk.”

Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was very modest, he was never seen extending his legs infront of his disciples, and he refused that they stand up when he comes, his life was very simple, he used to milk his goat,mend his clothes, repair his shoes, help with the household work,and visit poor people when they got sick. He also helped his companions in digging a trench by moving sand with them. His life was an amazing model of simplicity and humbleness.

How about this other side of Muhammad? How come your hadiths and even the Quran state that he did horrible crimes or had them committed? What you’ve posted here is nothing more than a fictional and very childish account of his life. This is the sort of thing that has kept Muslims believing in Muhammad for centuries, but the real Muhammad is finally being unmasked courtesy of the internet! It’s about time!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Again, your ignorance–still not sure of your motives–belies you message of gap bridging: all you show is that you do not understand the Bible.

In your ignorance, on a Catholic website you misuse the Bible to deny the divinity of Christ.

Please kindly keep your ignorant and disgusting views to yourself.

I will pray for your conversion.

Just about every post of his is an insult!

Vickie

 

[Ibn_Taymiya]

How about this other side of Muhammad? How come your hadiths and even the Quran state that he did horrible crimes or had them committed? What you’ve posted here is nothing more than a fictional and very childish account of his life. This is the sort of thing that has kept Muslims believing in Muhammad for centuries, but the real Muhammad is finally being unmasked courtesy of the internet! It’s about time!

Vickie

You must understand everything in its context instead of keeping on telling what you hear. If you have any questions, you can ask.

 

[Palladio]

Just about every post of his is an insult!

Vickie

Yes, I can see that now. I have complained to the moderators. With what effect I don’t know.

I must say that, having quit one site for its lunatic posts, I am surprised to see Mulims gone wild on a Catholic site.

I don’t think I would deserve any credit for avoiding Muslim sites where, of course, I have nothing to offer.

There is concerted effort here on the part of Muslims, complicit with this sort of posting.

I wonder if they are paid, or charged by their Imam, for their useless claptrap.

God bless you, Vicki.

 

[Booklover]

You must understand everything in its context instead of keeping on telling what you hear. If you have any questions, you can ask.

What context are you talking about? Those horrible crimes of his are recounted in the hadiths and stated by his own followers, so they must be true! They are a complete contradiction of the story you posted. The historical Muhammad was nothing like you’ve stated. I’m surprised you didn’t bring up the story of Jewish lady who threw garbage at Muhammad. Just about every other Muslim has brought that up.

The fact is that Muhammad had people assassinated for writing satyrical poems about him, so it would have been completely out of character for him to have acted the way Muslims believe he did. You live in complete denial of the true personality of the man you call a prophet!

See here and here! Is this your idea of a prophet of God and the model for all mankind? Wake up!

Vickie

 

[thistle]

Hi

The subject is mentioned in the start of the post; and it remains untouched by me.

These are shortcuts to bridge gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics; and these consist of excerpts from my own previous posts in the forum where the discussion remained unwound up for reasons.

I search for Truth; this is a tool of my search for it.
It is a dessert after a refreshing meal.

You should be searching for some professional help because clearly you are demented!

 

[Booklover]

Yes, I can see that now. I have complained to the moderators. With what effect I don’t know.

I must say that, having quit one site for its lunatic posts, I am surprised to see Mulims gone wild on a Catholic site.

I don’t think I would deserve any credit for avoiding Muslim sites where, of course, I have nothing to offer.

There is concerted effort here on the part of Muslims, complicit with this sort of posting.

I wonder if they are paid, or charged by their Imam, for their useless claptrap.

God bless you, Vicki.

I’m sure they’re sent here at least to try to convert us! They come prepared with all sorts of rebuttals for everything we believe! They certainly don’t come because they really want to learn anything about our faith, and no matter what we say they keep accusing us of being polytheists and worshipping statues and all that stuff!

God bless you too, Palladio!

Vickie

 

[Bishopite]

Hi

Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are brothers in prophethood assigned to them by GodAllahYHWH. They had the same covenant, the same mission and the same teachings and no differences between them any whatsoever.

Jesus neither gave my Catholics friends a Book written all by him or authored by him or authenticated by him; nor did Jesus give any Church to my Catholics friends, until they erected one at Rome and made a Book now called NTBible; courtesy Paul and associates.

Thanks

The ultimate truth is that GodAllahYHWH is absolute Truth and other things exist only in relation to Him and created by HIM.

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir

There are distinct differences between Muhammad and Jesus. Muhammad NEVER claimed to be God, Jesus did and gave a sufficient amount of evidence to support His claims. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. And God doesn’t assign truths to Jesus since Jesus is God from God light from light, true God from true God, begotten NOT made (as was Muhammad) Jesus is one in being with the Father (homoousius).
Muhammad is a mere man who was created by Jesus and not a prophet.

 

[paarsurrey]

I’m sure they’re sent here at least to try to convert us!

Hi

I have several times mentioned here, that Catholics need not convert to Muslims, after all what we would do with them, there is not going to be polls conducted that votes are needed. Numbers never matter much, it is the quality which matters most. We have already abundance of Muslims having blind faith, what would we do with a bigger lot of blind faith people from the West.

Catholics! not needed to convert, please; but if they do want, we cannot restrict them, there is no compulsion in religion.But for that they shall have to be first reason oriented, rational and logical. If that is not there, then no need to worry about, rest assured.

I love Jesus and Mary, and for their love I have joined this discussion forum . I am sincere about my love for them, and I would remain always. I feel quite comfortabel here, you are all my brothers and friends in humanity, and of course you people are polite, courteous, intelligent and educated, much better than the Protestant lot.

I salute you.

Thanks

 

[Ibn_Taymiya]

What context are you talking about? Those horrible crimes of his are recounted in the hadiths and stated by his own followers, so they must be true! They are a complete contradiction of the story you posted. The historical Muhammad was nothing like you’ve stated. I’m surprised you didn’t bring up the story of Jewish lady who threw garbage at Muhammad. Just about every other Muslim has brought that up.

The fact is that Muhammad had people assassinated for writing satyrical poems about him, so it would have been completely out of character for him to have acted the way Muslims believe he did. You live in complete denial of the true personality of the man you call a prophet!

See here and here!
Vickie

All what I posted are hadiths narrated by the Prophet’s disciples, every hadith must be understood well, and without double standards.

We as Muslims don’t accept that someone insults our Prophet or any other Prophet sent by God, because insulting them is insulting what he came with which is God’s religion, freedom of speech is not to insult, freedom of speech is to ask questions and discuss politely, and if we left everyone insulting God and any symbol of His religion, it will be a mess, which we don’t accept, we are jealous about God’s religion, and we don’t accept for it to be insulted on a Muslim country, if you are not, and you see this as freedom of speech, this is your opinion, which accepts that your God is insulted at your home and you have no problem with it, look now at what the Bible gives about insulting prophets:
2Ki 2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the word of Elisha which he spake. 2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Beth-el; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth young lads out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou baldhead; go up, thou baldhead. **2Ki 2:24 And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads of them. **

Is this an action done by a prophet who is supposed to be sent by God? To curse 42 children because they called him bald, they are even children, I would really like to see the day when Christians stop treating with double standards.

Is this your idea of a prophet of God and the model for all mankind? Wake up!

You’d better look at the crimes referred to your prophets and what the Bible tells, look at this for example:
Deu 20:10 When thou drawest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
Deu 20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that are found therein shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee.
Deu 20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
Deu 20:13 and when Jehovah thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
Deu 20:14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which Jehovah thy God hath given thee.
Deu 20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these peoples, that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth;
Deu 20:17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee;

According to your standards , these are not godly actions

 

[Booklover]

All what I posted are hadiths narrated by the Prophet’s disciples, every hadith must be understood well, and without double standards.

We as Muslims don’t accept that someone insults our Prophet or any other Prophet sent by God, because insulting them is insulting what he came with which is God’s religion, freedom of speech is not to insult, freedom of speech is to ask questions and discuss politely, and if we left everyone insulting God and any symbol of His religion, it will be a mess, which we don’t accept, we are jealous about God’s religion, and we don’t accept for it to be insulted on a Muslim country, if you are not, and you see this as freedom of speech, this is your opinion, which accepts that your God is insulted at your home and you have no problem with it, look now at what the Bible gives about insulting prophets:
2Ki 2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the word of Elisha which he spake. 2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Beth-el; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth young lads out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou baldhead; go up, thou baldhead. **2Ki 2:24 And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads of them. **

Is this an action done by a prophet who is supposed to be sent by God? To curse 42 children because they called him bald, they are even children, I would really like to see the day when Christians stop treating with double standards.

You’d better look at the crimes referred to your prophets and what the Bible tells, look at this for example:
Deu 20:10 When thou drawest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
Deu 20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that are found therein shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee.
Deu 20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
Deu 20:13 and when Jehovah thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
Deu 20:14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which Jehovah thy God hath given thee.
Deu 20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these peoples, that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth;
Deu 20:17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee;

According to your standards , these are not godly actions

Yes, we know very well that you don’t accept insults against Muhammad, Islam and the Quran. We know very well how you deal with those who do! We on the other hand do not kill those who insult our religion because to do so, would go against the teachings of our faith. We are not barbarians!

Vickie

 

[Ibn_Taymiya]

Yes, we know very well that you don’t accept insults against Muhammad, Islam and the Quran. We know very well how you deal with those who do! We on the other hand do not kill those who insult our religion because to do so, would go against the teachings of our faith. We are not barbarians!

Vickie

But it seems that your Bible Elisha and His God are:
2Ki 2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the word of Elisha which he spake. 2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Beth-el; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth young lads out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou baldhead; go up, thou baldhead. 2Ki 2:24 And he looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Jehovah. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two lads of them.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi

May GodAllahYHWH bless you also and guide you also to the truest path He knows to be.

Thanks

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Oh dear, paarsurrey; I think it’s time for another new thread. I hope you’ll find it and join it.

 

[rpp]

Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.

Paarsurrey,

That is one of the most insulting things anyone has ever posted on this forum.

It is a fundamentally, intrinsically and thoroughly evil assertion.

Not to mention is is an absolute LIE.

It is a gross insult to all Christians.

For someone whose signature line says he is trying to bridge the gap between religions, I am shocked. You have not bridged any gap. Instead you have burned those bridges. You have lost all credibility with me.

 

[paarsurrey]

Deu 20:10 When thou drawest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
Deu 20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that are found therein shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee.
Deu 20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
Deu 20:13 and when Jehovah thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
Deu 20:14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which Jehovah thy God hath given thee.
Deu 20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these peoples, that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth;
Deu 20:17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee;

Hi

Are the above revelations from the CatholicGod on Moses, when he had not yet become a humane Son of Man?!!!

The realities of the CatholicGod’s innerself, unfolded from the past!

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Oh dear, paarsurrey; I think it’s time for another new thread. I hope you’ll find it and join it.

Hi

Thanks you for starting yet another thread for our discussion (not a debate, mind you) and you know I am a good listener.

I like polite group discussions in a search for truth with rational, reasonable and logical arguments from all, for which everybody here is welcome to participate.

Thanks again

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey,
That is one of the most insulting things anyone has ever posted on this forum.
It is a gross insult to all Christians.

Hi

Personally I have not insulted anybody here; if I have insulted you in person, please quote from me.

I address here only my Catholics friends/brothers in humanity, so kindly correct your sentence “all Christians”, I am not so bad, though I am a little frank with my Catholic friends. I love them, and I think they like me also and pray for me.

Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.

As you would please observe from the following quote, the most of the above is from NTBible (and there are several versions of the NTBible, may be some/one have the words “Because of his righteousness” in stead of the words “because of his reverent submission”, you never know.)

Hebrews 5:7 (New International Version)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the **one who could save him from death **, and **he was heard because of his reverent submission **.

“and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross,” is not that far stretched from the quotation, you would please agree. Moreover, it is a Catholic faith that " (Jesus) getting a cursed killing on Cross".

So, please don’t accuse me entirely when it is from NTBible, and of course these are not words from Jesus’ mouth.

Thanks

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

paarsurrey, you’re reading too much into Hebrews 5:7. Your interpretation of this verse is inconsistent with other verses which signal an eye-witness account of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Hebrews 5:7 can be easily read in the context of his earthly ministry, and not His Passion.