Christian & Buddhist Mysticism: What Are The Differences?

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mercyalways said:
So the end goal of Christian mediation is to talk to God, and to gain more grace, whereas the end goal of Buddhist meditation is to kill oneself entirely, to so utterly extinguish yourself that you die forever and are never again reborn.
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" the end goal of Christian mediation is to talk to God"?
I think anyone can talk to God anytime. It doesn’t seem like a goal at all.
Rather, “the union and transformation of the soul with God”. Now that is a goal of meditation.

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3. In order, then, to understand what is meant by this union whereof we are treating, it must be known that God dwells and is present substantially in every soul, even in that of the greatest sinner in the world. And this kind of union is ever wrought between God and all the creatures, for in it He is preserving their being: if union of this kind were to fail them, they would at once become annihilated and would cease to be. And so, when we speak of union of the soul with God, we speak not of this substantial union which is continually being wrought, but of the union and transformation of the soul with God, which is not being wrought continually, but only when there is produced that likeness that comes from love; we shall therefore term this the union of likeness, even as that other union is called substantial or essential. The former is natural, the latter supernatural. And the latter comes to pass when the two wills — namely that of the soul and that of God — are conformed together in one, and there is naught in the one that repugnant to the other. And thus, when the soul rids itself totally of that which is repugnant to the Divine will and conforms not with it, it is transformed in God through love.
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/ascent.v.v.html
 
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The goal of every single human being on earth is to achieve heaven. There is no other goal. Everything else is a chimera. Of course prayer is dialogue, or it ought to be, and I am sorry for you if you haven’t found it to be. Prayer and meditation are excellent methods for obtaining grace.

You quote from St John of the Cross but apparently completely misunderstand him, since he is very, very clear that the soul of a human being can never be anything other than separate from God. Yes, I know he talks about union, and of course meditation, good works, daily Mass, and a thousand other methods can lead us to a greater union with God. But each human being, even imbued with the greatest of graces, even utterly burning with love for God, never becomes God.

Again, here is the very clear statement from St John of the Cross: “it is true that its natural being, though thus transformed, is as distinct from the Being of God as it was before”.

A number of eastern religions talk about having God within, or becoming God. By this they do mean full divinization, which is, well, not exactly supported a any fact.

Again, don’t you find that trying to attain nirvana is all about self-love, instead of finding love for God, as with Christians?
 
St Teresa AKA Mother Teresa, went through a severe “dark night of the soul.” She never lost her faith, but felt isolated from God and was tempted with doubts about her mission.

Critics didn’t understand what the “dark night of the soul,” and assumed it was a loss of faith. Such wasn’t the case.
 
The desire is “union” with God, which is heaven.

Few are given this gift in this life as there are those who have reached union as best can be done in this life.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
St Teresa AKA Mother Teresa, went through a severe “dark night of the soul.” She never lost her faith, but felt isolated from God and was tempted with doubts about her mission.

Critics didn’t understand what the “dark night of the soul,” and assumed it was a loss of faith. Such wasn’t the case.
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This is so true! There is an audio series by Father Groeschel where he talks about seeing Mother Teresa just a few weeks before her death. Of a sudden, he relates, she was bright with joy, utterly happy, transformed. The darkness had lifted.

It always struck me how interesting that was, how it revealed that every single human being is given different graces, each grace tailored just to that person. God will seek us and try to help us, no matter what state we are in, if only we would listen.
 
mercyalways said:
Again, don’t you find that trying to attain nirvana is all about self-love, instead of finding love for God, as with Christians?
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What makes you think I am trying to attain Nirvana?
But for the sake of discussion, no don’t think it is about self-love at all. How could it be when it is the self that one is seeking to extinguish.

How do you account for CCC
  1. The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.
 
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Shakuhachi said:
ng to attain Nirvana?
But for the sake of discussion, no don’t think it is about self-love at all. How could it be when it is the self that one is seeking to extinguish.
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Seeking your own death is utterly opposed to seeking and finding God. It is the exact opposite. And how can seeking your own ultimate death have anything to do with love, since it involves no one else, but is only a measure of your own self interest, self-love. It is a rejection of God.
Shakuhachi said:
What makes you think I am trying to attain Nirvana?
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Are you a Buddhist, then, or how would you classify yourself? Obviously, you are not a Catholic, since you don’t appear to know much about Catholicism, and can even ask me again about a stray quote, as if somehow you will find the right quote and make Catholic dogma disappear.

From the perspective of a Catholic, you appear to not be able to grasp St John of the Cross or many of the other Catholic mystics, but only to read them on a painfully literal level, almost like a child. You pick out a few pages from one of his books and ignore his life, which was utterly in service to the church, and in an exigent attempt to achieve sainthood.

Many of the Catholics on this forum know St John of Cross and every one of his works like the back of their hand, and they know his full life, understand the meaning of it and of all that he did.

As for prayer and meditation, how many members of this forum, for example, also have practiced prayer and meditation for decades, and done so on a level that would likely astonish you? St Theresa of Avila suggested, as a basic level, to spend two hours a day on prayer. That’s the beginning, I would note. The beginning.
 
Well, goodbye mercyalways.
Your condescension and insults are not something I want to enable.
You don’t want to discuss anyway.
Peace be with you.
 
Shakukhachi,

This world will pass away, but you will remain, and remain forever, because God loves you. He is searching for you now, calling you, and wants to show the the depths of his love. Aquinas said each one of us is more important than the entire of the universe. You are going to live forever, and live as the unique you with your memories and preferences. Let this knowledge fill you with joy.

Do not believe that you were here in this thread for no reason, not even for the reason you imagine you had. For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.

If there is anything I have done or said that offended anyone in any way, I most abjectly apologize and promise, once again, to try and do better, sigh.
 
mercyalways said:
If there is anything I have done or said that offended anyone in any way, I most abjectly apologize and promise, once again, to try and do better, sigh.
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Thank you for the conditional apology but there really is no “if”.

Can you reread your post 2 posts ago and try to imagine what might be offensive, insulting and condescending to someone who has been Roman Catholic for 65 years?
 
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JimR-OCDS said:
The desire is “union” with God, which is heaven.

Few are given this gift in this life as there are those who have reached union as best can be done in this life.
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This brings up an interesting question for me… What then is the relationship between doubt and faith in your opinion? Because it does not seem that faith excludes doubt… but rather it is an attitude of trust that keeps one going in spite of doubts.
 
ragus93 said:
This brings up an interesting question for me… What then is the relationship between doubt and faith in your opinion?
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I think the saints give us as many answers to this question as stars in the sky. Mother Teresa of Calcutta was in darkness until a few weeks from her death. Catherine of Siena flung herself at God at an early age and seemed to be in union with God very early.
 
Faith is always present as it is a gift from God. Faith is God’s revelation of himself to the individual, however that may happen.

Doubt happens not because of lack of faith in God, but because of distrust in oneself. The ego begins to tempt the person of faith with ideas that they’re not worthy for God and God has abandoned them.

However, a person of faith detaches themselves from egoic desires and accepts God’s will, and trust’s in Him alone.
 
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