Christian & Buddhist Mysticism: What Are The Differences?

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Randolph said:
Try to develop a mind that does not cling to anything—-INCLUDING GOD)
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Should read “including our understanding, our image of God” . Big difference. How many people worship their own image of God? probably most.

All this arguing over abstractions. Just sit down and pray as you pray best.
 
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Shakuhachi said:
Should read “including our understanding, our image of God” . Big difference. How many people worship their own image of God? probably most.
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It was about what Fr. Keating said—not what he “should” had been said, or “should” be understood.
 
It’s because when we become aware of a thought, we provide commentary to it and pull ourselves out of prayer.

Thought becomes and object when we dwell on it, which is why Fr Keating says to let it go. He was referring to erroneous thoughts that come into our minds constantly. The goal in Centering Prayer is the slow the flow of these thoughts so that we can be in the presence of God, with an openness toward “contemplation.”

Even when we begin to think about God, we create an image of God WE have made which is not God, but our image of God. We are made in God’s image. The Cloud of Unknowing is about detaching ourselves from the image of God we have created.

God must be the focus during meditations. In her book, “The Way of Petfection”, St. Teresa wrote:

The same thing Fr Keating taught. Our focus is being in the presence of God, which St Teresa called “Mental Prayer.” Again, as soon as we begin to provide commentary on who God is, we begin to create God in our image, which is what Fr Keating and St Teresa of Avila taught not to do. Being in the presence of God is the focus, but we can easily be drawn away by dwelling on a thought that comes into our mind which has nothing to do with God. Keep in mind that the word, “contemplation,” was not in the vocabulary of St Teresa and St John of the Cross’s time. They referred to it as “interior prayer,” which eventually became “Contemplative Prayer,” or “Quiet Prayer.”

“… If a person does not think Whom he is addressing, and what he is asking for, and who it is that is asking and of Whom he is asking it, I do not consider that he is praying at all…”

And here she’s not talking about erroneous thoughts as Fr Keating was addressing earlier in your post. She was referring to when we become aware that a thought has caused us to drift away from God’s presence, which is what happens when we allow erroneous thoughts to take over.

FYI, I’m a Discalced Carmelite Secular, OCDS. St Teresa and St John of the Cross works were part of my formation. Also, the spiritual director for my OCDS group, a Discalced Carmelite Friar OCD, told me to continue with “Centering Prayer,” as I was taught.

Contemplative Prayer isn’t for everyone and God will lead them to other forms of prayer, which is fine.

In all, St Teresa’s teaching about “mental prayer,” applies to all forms of prayer. We must be aware of just who it is we’re praying to.
 
Thank you.

The fact is that if we try to empty our minds, we will fail.
Even if all we want to do is be completely attentive and listen like we are listening to a flea, be fully available to what ever the Lord wants to do , or not do with us, that is a challenge.

The main task is to deal with distractions no matter what our focus is.
Some have a natural ability to dwell with inner silence and it can also be developed.
That doesn’t make it prayer.

What is the intention going in?
 
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It has been a long time since I read him. but the subject matter is so subtle. The distinctions are so fine. What is the danger if the intentions are devout? And I might add, what is St John of the Cross talking about when he speaks of abandoning all thoughts, understandings and images?

There is an apophatic tradition going way back.
 
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Shakuhachi said:
The fact is that of we try to empty our minds, we will fail.
Even if all we want to do is be completely attentive and listen like we are listening to a flea, be fully available to what ever the Lord want to do , or not do with us, that is a challenge.

The main task is to deal with distractions no matter what our focus is.
Some have a natural ability to dwell with inner silence and it can also be developed.
That doesn’t make it prayer.

What is the intention going in?
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I have been a contemplative for over 20 years and am in general are very supportive of prayers—be it vocal, meditation or contemplation. I am devoted to praying the Rosary and dwelling in contemplation.

I have seen the dangers of new comers getting into contemplative sprayers—with all the total surrendering of the minds and thoughts without appropriate guidance of staying focus on God—and ultimately lost faith in Christ and in the Catholic faith. I brought my concerns to my priests and 2 bishops. They told me they observed similar cases, and advised me to stay with the paths that our great saints have paved for us and the path that the Church has approved.

I got alarmed when a Centering Prayers speaker visiting many churches in my diocese could not easily answer questions regarding where was Christ in all that. He was more enthused in saying that Centering Prayers had Eastern/Buddhist influence in it.
 
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Well, I should not even be commenting on Centering Prayer. It has been decades since I read any of those guys. I am a do-it-yourselfer. I have tried a lot of things. I think I posted on here an article from a Psychiatrist on “Emptiness”. How funny that it can be so complicated.

The title asks, Christian & Buddhist Mysticism: What are the Differences. Of course, Christ is the difference and one could write a book about that.
 
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rossum said:
Why is there no way to find out anything about God’s judgement? You are criticising Buddhism for having the same failings as Christianity. Something about motes and beams comes to mind.
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Sorry, but I believe the evidence argues against your statement. What is unclear about the 10 commandments? What is unclear about the two destination points, heaven and hell? Nothing unclear at.

On the other hand, here is a list of the questions about karma, very basic question I might add, that you are unable to even try to answer:

Why is there no way to find out anything about karma, if it is a force built into the very structure of the universe?

If karma is a consciousness, what is it? Where is this consciousness, and how long has it existed, and where did it come from?

If it is not a consciousness, then how can there be karma, since the physical universe has no obvious spiritual component?

Karma claims to be a force for justice, but it is a justice without explanation, without a moral sense, and therefore it is unclear and unjust. Or can you prove otherwise?

Why should the universe care if a person kills another, any more than if a bird eats a worm? Who set up karma, and why? What is its purpose? What keeps it running? Please explain.

What rules does karma go by, so that each person can know what to do?
Why is there no shadow of a proof for karma in this world?

Why do the bad frequently flourish and the good suffer?

If every person is not truly real, why is karma hunting non-existing people down and punishing and rewarding these non-existent people? Doesn’t that strike you as utterly irrational?
 
Randolph said:
I have seen the dangers of new comers getting into contemplative sprayers—with all the total surrendering of the minds and thoughts without appropriate guidance of staying focus on God—and ultimately lost faith in Christ and in the Catholic faith. I brought my concerns to my priests and 2 bishops. They told me they observed similar cases, and advised me to stay with the paths that our great saints have paved for us and the path that the Church has approved.
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All too often, those people who introduce such practices know little of Buddhism or Hinduism, and how opposed Buddhist meditation is to Christian meditation. The purpose of Buddhist meditation is to extinguish self; the purpose of Christian meditation is to talk to God. This is an extraordinary difference.

The Catholic church has always taught that God is separate from the beings He created. Claims that God is inside you, except in a poetic sense, are dangerous, sometimes implying that you are becoming God. This is a frequent claim in various eastern meditations, and it is opposed to Christianity, period.
 
Yes, and for me, I get tired of words, outer an dinner. So I listen. I exercise awareness of God’s presence…within, outside, all around…whatever it is. I know I cannot do it alone, can’t do anything alone. That is another difference. Something that concerns me is that many people seem afraid, or rather too impatient to get comfortable with silence, outer an dinner. I don’t know how they can stay healthy without that peace.

So, in that contemplation, in that inner silence, stillness and peace, it seems to me that there is a cycle, like when we dive underwater and have to come up for air and then go back down again. The going up and down is the meditation on something, even if only an invocation or name of God. Sitting on the bottom is the stillness. What happens there is mystery and is probably different for all of us. All the names for states…not important. What are the fruits of all this? Certainly nothing to brag about. Are we bringing anything back to the rest of our lives? Love? Compassion? Patience? Peace? Joy? Well I guess I could name all the fruits of the spirit. Or do we come back frustrated that the experience was not what we hoped for? I have been there also.

I don’t think many people give themselves enough time in sitting in silence encountering the Holy Spirit int the temple of their hearts. and that probably includes me also. Yes, even I let anything be an excuse. so many important things I do, you know.

I think it is good we discuss this. It shows we are interested and care. And it helps us to sort things out a bit. But language is a problem.
 
O Boy, well, who do you think you are? That is a good question. We have so many roles to play. But we are not those roles. Who are we then. We can come up with some labels from faith: “Child of God”, 'Christian", etc. What does all that mean?

And Colossians 3:3 3
“For you died, and your life is now hidden in Christ.”

We do not know who we truly are because it is a mystery as deep as Christ. Only God knows who we are. we have some incomplete and inaccurate ideas but they are all provisional.

Now that is different from the Buddhist approach. For them there ultimately is no “we” to be hidden anywhere. Only the false sense of self that we live in.
 
Shakuhachi said:
The fact is that if we try to empty our minds, we will fail.
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See, I don’t get it when people say stuff like this. Is it not very easy to clear the mind? Just don’t think. At least for a short time, it is very easy, no?
 
rossum said:
For one visit to a temple you get 100,000 gods. Much better odds than just one God in a Christian Church.
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When I’d see things like this from you, I would assume you always meant from a Buddhist point of view who don’t understand Christian claims, due to the vast difference in worldview, since (if I recall) you used to be a Christian, so it would be weird for you to believe such things. But seeing stuff like this, are you aware of the tremendous difference between the Christian belief in (the) God, and the various pagan gods? Between classical monotheism in general and the pagan gods?
 
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I can only speak for myself but I notice more subtle thoughts. Not like the inner voice but subtle movements of the mind. almost at the subliminal level. Most of our waking time is with big loud thoughts. Am I making any sense?
 
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