Christian & Buddhist Mysticism: What Are The Differences?

[mercyalways]

Nirvana is the realization of the Oneness of Absolute Reality. Is there any Christian counterpart? Do we have the same experience and interpret it differently, call it something else?

Nothing could be further apart. Nirvana is achieved when you finally die, after being reborn for many lives.

Jesus Christ conquered death, which is why we all will live forever.

The two cannot be compared, as I see itl

 

[mercyalways]

the Oneness of
Absolute Ultimate Reality. I

would you consider this a form of pantheism? It sounds like it.

 

[mercyalways]

rossum:

There is no rule saying “Thou shalt not throw a stone straight up in the air.”

Moral judgments aren’t stones falling on your head, however. A staggering lack of stones fell on Mao’s head, for example. Nothing in this life suggests that the wicked are punished.

Buddhists say that there is a mysterious force, karma, which will punish. So the karmic force will see to it that Mao is punished, although no one knows why. Why is the karmic force doing this? What taught the karmic force to do this? Why hasn’t the karmic force given clear explanations as to right and wrong, as did Jesus Christ?

Karma cannot be seen by any scientific method whatsoever. There is not the smallest hint of karma throughout history. So upon what basis do you believe karma exists?

Moral judgments aren’t stones falling on your head, however. A staggering lack of stones fell on Mao’s head, for example. Nothing in this life suggests that the wicked are punished.

Buddhists say that there is a mysterious force, karma, which will punish. So the karmic force will see to it that Mao is punished, although no one knows why. Why is the karmic force doing this? What taught the karmic force to do this? Why hasn’t the karmic force given clear explanations as to right and wrong, as did Jesus Christ?

Karma cannot be seen by any scientific method whatsoever. There is not the smallest hint of karma throughout history. All the vague pronunciations of wrong in Buddhism are mere suggestions, which vary from time to time, country to country.

I would be fascinated to see your references to the scientific papers showing the existence of heaven and hell. You do have those references, don’t you? Oh…

No, that would be the promises of God.

Consider the proofs of Christianity through science, which are impressive, such as the big bang and the reason and logic present in the universe.

Compare that tto karma. Where did karma come from? What forces in the universe proclaim that there is karma and that people need to be punished by reincarnation?

 

[Shakuhachi]

When you create something, speak a word, it may fully express you and since it comes forth from you, your breath, creating those sound waves, it is an extension of you. But it is not the fullness of who you are.

 

[mercyalways]

There is an extraordinary difference in the meditation of Buddhists and Christians, one so deep it is more important than any small similarities. That is this: the point of Christian prayer is to talk to God. The point of Buddhist meditation is to extinguish the self.

All prayer and contemplation in Christianity is an attempt to reach God. The entire aim of Buddhism is to end the bitter cycle of reincarnation by finally, finally extinguishing yourself once and for all and dying. Therefore the aim of Buddhist meditation is never to talk to anyone. It is to kill all thought and feeling in yourself so that you can finally die.

 

[mercyalways]

it is not the fullness of who you are.

There is no self in Buddhism therefore there is no fullness that I can see

 

[Kei]

This is really helpful. I have been blending meanings with each other through my life!

 

[rossum]

No, that would be the promises of God.

So the fact that I have no scientific references is a big fault in my religion. The fact that you also have no scientific references is of no consequence to your religion.

Erm… You are not going to convert many Buddhists to Christianity that way.

 

[mercyalways]

So the fact that I have no scientific references is a big fault in my religion. The fact that you also have no scientific references is of no consequence to your religion.

Erm… You are not going to convert many Buddhists to Christianity that way.

Let me see…choosing between Christianity, where God may send you to hell for making the wrong choice, or Buddhism, in which the choice itself is as meaningless as the unending lives you live out.

Given those two choices, possibly landing in hell for eternity, or just living out yet another pointless life, no one would pick Buddhism. No one.

Besides, and I repeat: from the big bang, which cries out that there is a God, to the evidence of a logical universe, all of nature proclaims the existence of its creator. And God has proven His existence throughout history by reaching out to man, and then by coming into the world.

Karma, on the other hand, is without any plank of logic whatsoever. Why should the universe care if a person kills another, any more than if a bird eats a worm? Who set up karma, and why? What is its purpose? What keeps it running?

What rules does karma go by, so that each person can know what to do? Why is there no shadow of a proof for karma in this world? Why do the bad frequently flourish and the good suffer? If every person is not truly real, why is karma hunting non-existing people down and punishing and rewarding these non-existent people? Doesn’t that strike you as utterly irrational?

 

[rossum]

Let me see…choosing between Christianity, where God may send you to hell for making the wrong choice, or Buddhism, in which the choice itself is as meaningless as the unending lives you live out.

Buddhism has hells, sixteen of them, so hell is an option in Buddhism as well. If you don’t want to spend a lifetime in a hell then you avoid the actions that put you there. “As you sow, so shall you reap,” as a good man once said.

Buddhism is a universalist religion, everyone ends up in nirvana eventually, though “eventually” may take a very long time for some. Even Mara, the equivalent of Lucifer, will get there in the end.

 

[mercyalways]

Buddhism has hells,

Again, I repeat: no one would choose Buddhism over Christianity if you compare the result. If you chose wrong today, and Christ is God, then you may well end up in hell for ever and ever, in unending anguish.

Buddhism just has unending lives, which may, eventually, end up here or there, but which has no immediate prospect of eternal hell. None. So your choice today of Buddhism has no special result at all.

It simply goes against all logic to chose Buddhism therefore,.

 

[christofirst]

I hope your book comes to fruition successfully.

Here on CAF, whenever ways of prayer like Centering Prayer or Christian Meditation are brought up, certain posters over the years have assumed the roll of what I call the “prayer police,” pointing out their disapproval in what comes across as a threatening or even combative way. This has always put me off, so I appreciate the way you expressed your disagreement and explanation with respect.

 

[Shakuhachi]

The fullness is mistaken in thinking it is a self.

 

[rossum]

Again, I repeat: no one would choose Buddhism over Christianity if you compare the result. If you chose wrong today, and Christ is God, then you may well end up in hell for ever and ever, in unending anguish.

If it came to Pascal’s Wager i would pick Hinduism. For one visit to a temple you get 100,000 gods. Much better odds than just one God in a Christian Church.

Though Pascal’s Wager is off topic on this thread.

So your choice today of Buddhism has no special result at all.

Yes it does, and I have scientific evidence to support me: Buddhists ‘really are happier’. Though, getting back to the thread topic, I suspect that there would be similar results for Christian meditators if someone did the research.

 

[mercyalways]

he fullness is mistaken in thinking it is a self.

While I certainly don’t want to attack your beliefs, it strikes me that dismissing the fact of your own existence is a mistake on a quite spectacular scale.

 

[mercyalways]

If it came to Pascal’s Wager i would pick Hinduism

In a choice between Buddhism and Christianity, Christianity must win. An eternity in hell is an all too possible result if you refuse Christianity. However, there are no real consequences to becoming a Buddhist instead. Just more drops of water in the ocean, more endless lives. If you want to think of it as a variant of Pascal’s wager, go ahead, but I believe it’s much clearer than that.

 

[mercyalways]

I have scientific evidence to support me

There is also one research paper that claims to have found that Buddhist meditation can lead to psychotic breaks in some people.

No the problem with Buddhism and logic is that Buddhism shatters when anyone asks logical questions about karma. Why is there no way to find out anything about karma, if it is a force built into the very structure of the universe? If karma is a consciousness, what is it? Where is this consciousness, and how long has it existed, and where did it come from?

If it is not a consciousness, then how can there be karma, since the physical universe has no obvious spiritual component? Karma claims to be a force for justice, but it is a justice without explanation, without a moral sense, and therefore it is unclear and unjust.

 

[rossum]

Why is there no way to find out anything about karma,

Why is there no way to find out anything about God’s judgement? You are criticising Buddhism for having the same failings as Christianity. Something about motes and beams comes to mind.

 

[Randolph]

Centering Prayer is Christ Centered, nothing more.

You are advancing a deception and a lie. I will allow the originator of Centering Prayers in the 1970’s to speak for himself. In his book, “Open Heart, Open Mind”, Fr. Keating wrote:

“… If you are aware of no thoughts, you are aware of something and that is a thought. If at that point you can lose the awareness that you are aware of no thoughts, you will move into pure consciousness . In that state there is no consciousness of self. . . . This is what divine union is. There is no reflection of self. . . . SO LONG AS YOU FEEL UNITED WITH GOD, IT CAN NOT BE FULL UNION. So long as there is a thought, it is not full union…”

Fr. Keating continues:

“…Centering prayer is an exercise in letting go. That is all it is. It lays aside every thought. One touch of divine love enables you to take all the pleasures of the world and throw them in the wastebasket. Reflecting on spiritual communications diminishes them. The Diamond Sutra says it all: “Try to develop a mind that does not cling to anything…”

(Mind you that the Diamond Sutra is a Buddhist monk. Try to develop a mind that does not cling to anything—-INCLUDING GOD)

This absolutely contradicts the thoughts of great contemplatives (saints) such as St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross who adamantly insisted in no uncertain terms that God must be the focus during meditations. In her book, “The Way of Petfection”, St. Teresa wrote:

“…Represent the Lord Himself as close to you. … Try to carry about an image or painting of this Lord that is to your liking. … It is also a great help to take a good book written in the vernacular in order to recollect one’s thoughts”

…And in “Interior Castle”, St. Teresa emphasized:

“… If a person does not think Whom he is addressing, and what he is asking for, and who it is that is asking and of Whom he is asking it, I do not consider that he is praying at all…”

The Catechism of the Catholic Church further echoes the thoughts of the great saint:

“Contemplation is a gaze of faith, fixed on Jesus. . . . Contemplation also turns its gaze on the mysteries of the life of Christ. Thus it learns the “interior knowledge of our Lord,” the more to love him and follow him (cf. St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises , 104). Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God. Far from being passive, such attentiveness is the obedience of faith. . . . It participates in the “Yes” of the Son . . . and the Fiat of God’s lowly handmaid…”

 

[Shakuhachi]

While I certainly don’t want to attack your beliefs, it strikes me that dismissing the fact of your own existence is a mistake on a quite spectacular scale.

We must make a fine distinction between the of our ego and the deeper inner “self” we truly are in Christ.