Christian & Buddhist Mysticism: What Are The Differences?

[Randolph]

That is all a strawman. But this ha been argued all to no point.

No straw man—You may want to believe it, but it’s just not true. The point you seemed to adamantly deny is humans are in fact separate from God. It was God who created humans. (Humans are not God). Each human being has his own immortal soul. At judgment time, souls will either be for eternity with God in Heaven, or be with Satan in Hell. The problem with Buddhism is that it cares not about God the Creator, nor about the relationship between God and humans. In Buddhism, God is irrelevant to human beings. As such, evil and sins do not exist.

In the garden of Eden, it was the very temptation of wanting to be like God that Adam dared to eat the forbidden fruit—thus causing his fall. The effect of this original sin is still felt to this day. It is this very fact that is taught in Buddhism that detaching from everything —including Christ—would bring enlightenment while leaving himself with nothing but his only self—thus another path of becoming God.

You may believe whatever you want to believe. But in Catholicism, any attempt to remove Christ contradicts the very foundation of its own faith—which centers only on Christ.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, I have the experience you don’t, so I have the knowledge about Centering Prayer of which you don’t. It is the same as Quiet Prayer, and Fr Pennington wrote the origins of it going back to the 4th Century. if you don’t believe Fr Keating, try Fr Martin Laird " Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation."

Fr Dreher is wrong that Fr Keating was taught by spiritual Masters from Eastern Religions, that’s not what happened. Pope Paul VI asked the contemplative orders like the Trappist, to dialogue with masters of Eastern Religions, in order to learn why young Catholics were leaving the Church for Eastern Religions. So, Fr Keating, when he was Abbot at St Joseph’s Abbey, hosted a weekend where they invited a group from a nearby Buddhist monastery to attend. As soon as Fr Keating and Fr Pennington saw how the Buddhists were meditating, they already knew that the tradition of Contemplative Prayer was already in Christianity. They had been practicing “Quiet Prayer,” and “Lectio Divina,” as handed down for centuries by monks before them. They then decided to teach THIS to those not in monasteries. It was called “Quiet Prayer,” originally. The term “Centering Prayer” didn’t come about until they were hosting a retreat for religious and were using Thomas Merton’s teaching on St John of the Cross. St John used the term “center” and “centering” so much, that the attendants began to call it “Centering Prayer.” This was back in the early 1970’s BTW. Anyway, the monks were not taught how to meditate by the leaders of the Eastern Religions as Fr Dreher claims.

No point in showing you that the articles you’ve posted are wrong. It takes divine intervention to transform a soul.

 

[Randolph]

Well, I have the experience you don’t, so I have the knowledge about Centering Prayer of which you don’t. They are the same as Quiet Prayer, if you don’t believe Fr Keating, try Fr Martin Laird " Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation."

No point in showing you that the articles you’ve posted are wrong. It takes divine intervention to transform a soul.

How do you know that I don’t have experience in Centering Prayer? Or Eastern/Buddhist Mysticism?

How do you in fact know that I hadn’t participated in many Centering Prayer gatherings myself?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I know by what you write, it’s contrary to what Fr Keating taught and what I know.

BTW, go back and read my post, I had edited a part of how Fr Dreher was wrong.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

BTW, don’t confuse Centering Prayer with New Age “Centering.” They are not the same.

Centering Prayer is Christ Centered, nothing more.

 

[Randolph]

I know by what you write, it’s contrary to what Fr Keating taught and what I know.

No, you don’t. I did attend Centering Prayers talks and gatherings. I asked many questions of their speakers giving talks in my diocese. I researched and even asked priests and bishops about it.

You are advancing a controversial prayer movement that potentially put vulnerable souls at risk. I care not what you think. What you do for your own soul is your business. But I care for readers on this forum and warn them the potential dangers of Centering Prayers. As St. Teresa of Avila correctly taught her sisters, all contemplative prayers aim to unite souls to God—-not to themselves.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It’s not a prayer movement, which again shows you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Contemplative Prayer has been with us since Jesus Christ walked the earth.

Anyway, CAF always brings out the people who’ll attack what they don’t know.

I remember having to defend Contemplation years back, as it was attacked as being New Age.

 

[Randolph]

t’s not a prayer movement, which again shows you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Contemplative Prayer has been with us since Jesus Christ walked the earth.

. . . .
Don’t even start conflating the Centering Prayers movement that was originated by Keating in the 1970’s that partially relied in Eastern/Buddhist mysticism to great contemplatives in the Church like Elijah, St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, etc… The Centering Prayers speaker told the audience that it was sort of New Age and Eastern spirituality. When I asked him about where was Christ, he was dancing around and could not give a straight answer. That was where I became suspicious of it.

My priests and a few bishops advised me to stay away from Centering Prayers and stick with proven contemplatives whom the Church has made saints such as St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, etc…

 

[Shakuhachi]

The point you seemed to adamantly deny is humans are in fact separate from God

It seems more that it is you who deny God’s immanence and omnipresence. What does St Paul mean wen he says that it is in God the we “live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28).

That is not to say that our ego is aligned with God. We all know full well our limitations and failures. As Christians we come to Christ for salvation, for transformation but that involves a dying to self, a surrender of the ego.

I think the problem is that we try to talk about things that are beyond words. People like Fr. Dreher apply some kind of uncharitable legalist, interpretation to the intentions of others. How does he know what goes on within a person’s prayer? We can all pick on anyone’s words and find fault.

To be honest. I do not know what a Buddhist really thinks he is up to in that interior realm and they even argue among themselves. Christian mystics also use different words and images to try to talk about the ineffable.

The only dangers are when the ego gets inflated and thinks it knows so much.

 

[Randolph]

It seems more that it is you who deny God’s immanence and omnipresence.

I don’t deny anything about God. What we know is we are made in the image of God—not God made in the image of man. Because of the fall of Adam, humanity is broken and is in need of healing and transformation. With the help of God’s grace, our prayers aim to unite our souls to God—not to our own selves to the exclusion of God (which is precisely what Eastern/Buddhist meditation does).

 

[Shakuhachi]

Buddhism does not even reference God. Hinduism does and it is a recognition that all things are manifestations of God. But that is different than saying all things are God as in Godhead perfection.

When you say, “our own selves”. What do you mean? Are you talking about the ego?

 

[Randolph]

When you say, “our own selves”. What do you mean? Are you talking about the ego?

When nirvana is reached, there is nothing left/attached to one’s consciousness but one’s very empty self. It’s a state devoid of all things—including Christ. Therein lies the dangers. What will be filled in the void?

 

[Shakuhachi]

Even Buddhist do not agree are even care to talk about Nirvana. It is not something that can be talked about. But it is true that their intention isn’t explicitly to encounter Christ or to be one with God. These terms do not have a place in their metaphysics.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Another distinction, I think, has to do with grace. In Buddhism and most Eastern spirituality more emphasis is placed on the effort of the meditator. Maybe some graceful help from a god or Bodhisattva, but mostly do - it - yourself. In Christianity there is plenty of room for personal effort and methods of prayer and meditation but the ultimate goal is pure grace ,gift from God. Our work is to be disposed, ready and accepting of it.

Randolph, I believe your main concern is Qietism.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12608c.htm

 

[Randolph]

Thank you for the link

 

[Shakuhachi]

The point you seemed to adamantly deny is humans are in fact separate from God

One more word about that. I do not deny that I tend toward the Quietism or Hesychasm and the mystics who were not always appreciated. But I think we get too nit picky about what we think we are doing when we pray and how we describe what we are and our relationship with God. It is essentially sacred mystery.

 

[rossum]

Buddhism does not even reference God.

Not strictly true. A creator god does get a mention, though in a section about errors found outside Buddhism:

“I am the Brahma, the great Brahma, the conqueror, the unconquered, the all-seeing, the subjector of all to his wishes, the omnipotent, the maker, the creator, the supreme, the controller, the one confirmed in the practice of meditation, and father to all that have been and shall be. I have created these other beings.”

– Brahmajala sutta, section 42 (Wrong View #5):

That god’s description of himself: “the omnipotent, the maker, the creator, the supreme” and “father to all” is reminiscent of the Abrahamic God.

Even Buddhist do not agree are even care to talk about Nirvana. It is not something that can be talked about.

It cannot be talked about because all descriptions of nirvana are necessarily incorrect. The least incorrect was probably Vimalakirti:

Then the Bodhisattva Manjushri said to Vimalakirti, “We have all given our teachings, noble sir. Now, may you elucidate the teaching of the the entrance into the principle of nonduality.”

Thereupon Vimalakirti kept his silence, saying nothing at all.

The Bodhisattva Manjushri applauded Vimalakirti: “Excellent! Excellent, noble sir! This is indeed the entrance into the nonduality of the Bodhisattvas.”

– Vimalakirtinirdesa sutra, Chapter Nine

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We are all spiritually connected to God, as God created us and breathed His spirit into mankind from the beginning.

As St Paul wrote, we are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is God.

The fact is, we are connected to God and everyone. It’s why the choices we make are not in a vacuum buy have an effect on everyone.

But enough arguing about it. I trust in God and trust that he is leading me to where HE wants me.

 

[mercyalways]

It cannot be talked about because all descriptions of nirvana are necessarily incorrect. The least incorrect was probably Vimalakirti:

So the goal of every non self is to achieve death/nirvana? But surely death is already achieved, again and again and endless agains? And if there is a non self, then how can a non self be judged and earn some sort of karma? And what on earth is doing the judging and upon what list of rules does the judgment rely on?

 

[rossum]

So the goal of every non self is to achieve death/nirvana?

No. The goal is to avoid death. If you are born then you will die, so you have to avoid being (re)born in the first place. To do that you have to attain nirvana before you (re)die. If you don’t succeed, then you get to go round and try again and again and again and again…

Hence the joke about the Buddhist coroner:

Q. Why was the Buddhist coroner fired?

A. Because she always put “Birth” as the cause of death.