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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
I’m prolly stepping right into it, but there’s something I’ve been wondering…
I’ve followed the stories of several prominent Christians who became famous or gained fans from Christianity then “came out” as non-believers.
Something I’ve noticed is a lot of them were Evangelical, and they mention about they couldn’t view believe Young Earth Creationsism anymore.
Now to me, it’s an enormous leap from “God didn’t make the world in six days” to “therefore there is no God at all”.
I think about this because I have a couple good friends who are YEC Evangelicals and I wonder if belief in YEC is so central that it holds up every other belief.
I’ve followed the stories of several prominent Christians who became famous or gained fans from Christianity then “came out” as non-believers.
Something I’ve noticed is a lot of them were Evangelical, and they mention about they couldn’t view believe Young Earth Creationsism anymore.
Now to me, it’s an enormous leap from “God didn’t make the world in six days” to “therefore there is no God at all”.
I think about this because I have a couple good friends who are YEC Evangelicals and I wonder if belief in YEC is so central that it holds up every other belief.
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ATraveller
Guest
If only the works and thoughts of the Early Church Fathers were a prominent part of Evangelicalism.
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niceatheist
Guest
In my encounters with YECs, Sola Scriptural completely informs their world view. Out of this flows the absolute necessity of denying evolution and geology. It can be more nuanced than that, but at its core, the world view of Creationist Christians is completely confident in a literal reading of Genesis.
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William_Scott
Guest
Hello ATraveller,
I’m an evangelical who gives prominent place to the full 2000 year Tradition of the Christian faith. Consequently, I side with the normative YEC position of the early Church. My undergrad education was in the field of physics. In that branch of science, and every other branch of science I’ve looked into, the YEC position has always shown itself to be a reasonable interpretation (and I would argue, the most reasonable interpretation) of the scientific evidence.
YEC was the standard position of the entire church until 18th century rationalists put forth their old earth/uniformitarian geological paradigm (with specific intent to disregard and discredit the Mosaic record). Unfortunately, many Protestants and Roman Catholics in the 19th century shelved the clear Scriptural teaching on origins and the Flood–and the ample evidence for the same in the geological record–and bought into this new unbiblical old earth paradigm…and the rest is history.
I’m disappointed to see that certain articles even here on Catholic Answers have (I’ll presume unintentionally) obscured the normative young earth creation position of the early church through out of context quotations:
It looks like the author of the the linked article intended to frame the beliefs of Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, etc. as something other than young earth creationists, and possibly even to place them in the old earth camp. Nothing could be further from the truth–as a careful reading of the actual passages those quotes are taken from, as well as a broader review of their writings, shows.
p.s. I likely won’t have an opportunity to comment again on this thread, so I’m officially checking out. Have a blessed Lord’s Day.
I’m an evangelical who gives prominent place to the full 2000 year Tradition of the Christian faith. Consequently, I side with the normative YEC position of the early Church. My undergrad education was in the field of physics. In that branch of science, and every other branch of science I’ve looked into, the YEC position has always shown itself to be a reasonable interpretation (and I would argue, the most reasonable interpretation) of the scientific evidence.
YEC was the standard position of the entire church until 18th century rationalists put forth their old earth/uniformitarian geological paradigm (with specific intent to disregard and discredit the Mosaic record). Unfortunately, many Protestants and Roman Catholics in the 19th century shelved the clear Scriptural teaching on origins and the Flood–and the ample evidence for the same in the geological record–and bought into this new unbiblical old earth paradigm…and the rest is history.
I’m disappointed to see that certain articles even here on Catholic Answers have (I’ll presume unintentionally) obscured the normative young earth creation position of the early church through out of context quotations:
It looks like the author of the the linked article intended to frame the beliefs of Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, etc. as something other than young earth creationists, and possibly even to place them in the old earth camp. Nothing could be further from the truth–as a careful reading of the actual passages those quotes are taken from, as well as a broader review of their writings, shows.
p.s. I likely won’t have an opportunity to comment again on this thread, so I’m officially checking out. Have a blessed Lord’s Day.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I am sorry they lose their faith for whatever reason and I hope they come back.
I can’t help but feel they get seduced by all the attention they get as performers, and drift away.
I can’t help but feel they get seduced by all the attention they get as performers, and drift away.
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niceatheist
Guest
I’m gathering you took engineering
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William_Scott
Guest
Hello niceatheist,
My bachelor’s degree is in physics, not engineering. I did turn to the dark side, however, by later becoming a lawyer. Given my schedule over the next few weeks I assume I won’t have an opportunity to comment further on this thread.
Do keep your heart open to the Creator. His love for you in Christ is real and unfathomable.
My bachelor’s degree is in physics, not engineering. I did turn to the dark side, however, by later becoming a lawyer. Given my schedule over the next few weeks I assume I won’t have an opportunity to comment further on this thread.
Do keep your heart open to the Creator. His love for you in Christ is real and unfathomable.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Yes, this too.I can’t help but feel they get seduced by all the attention they get as performers, and drift away.
And being in Hollywood (which worldview is radically different than us “normals”), theyre surrounded by cool, hip people doing cool hip things and the pressure to conform is enormous.
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Thorolfr
Guest
As an undergraduate, I took some courses in geology and went on a geology field trip to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, and I can’t see how any of what I learned and saw could possibly be explained by a YEC world view. I’ve also gone more than 300 miles from the Nile into Egypt’s western desert and found fossils of sea creatures in limestone deposits now surrounded by sand dunes which were obviously once deposited under a sea. But I can’t see how that could have gone from being a sea full of sea creatures to being a hot, barren desert in the last 6,000 to 10,000 years. That process must have taken far longer.My undergrad education was in the field of physics. In that branch of science, and every other branch of science I’ve looked into, the YEC position has always shown itself to be a reasonable interpretation (and I would argue, the most reasonable interpretation) of the scientific evidence.
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ATraveller
Guest
I can’t help but feel they get seduced by all the attention they get as performers, and drift away.
There’s some truth to these theories but this article reaffirms what I suspected:And being in Hollywood (which worldview is radically different than us “normals”), theyre surrounded by cool, hip people doing cool hip things and the pressure to conform is enormous .
They grew up in Christian homes. As Steingard stated he had “the word ‘Christian’ in front of most of the things in my life”. They live in a Christian environment, listen to Christian music, have Christian friends, watch Christian TV, eat Christian food (Chick-Fil-A?!), and generally swim in a culture which claims the name of Christ. It is more convenient to be a ‘Christian’ in that culture than not – especially if it offers you a career.
In an ironic reversal of the teaching of Christ where people won’t follow Him because they fear they will lose everything, these celebrity Christians fear that they will lose everything if they give up their Christian position! Which is not to say that every celebrity Christian is fake – but more to ask what we have done in creating a Christian world that mimics the secular world and holds up some people as celebrities, and pays and honours them for being so?
Steingard admits that now his Christian career has faded he finds it much easier to give up his Christianity: “I’ve got a whole lot less to lose now. The band isn’t playing shows or making music at the moment, and we’ve all found other work and careers to focus on for the time being.”
I’ve noticed this same trend as the author. Some of the names (including this band though I never listened to any of their songs, just familiar with the name) that were popular among Evangelicals my age in our teen years have become non-religious. And these names were popular because some had families that preferred them because they were pop culture alternatives. This created a massive industry and is still massive.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
They rise to fame partially on their Christianity (Christian families feel safe to let their kids watch), and okay, when they “stop” being Christian, they do so to applause from the more secular mainstream society, so they make a net gain.
It’s not a loss in any worldly sense
It’s not a loss in any worldly sense
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niceatheist
Guest
If the Creator demands I ignore or deny physical evidence. I’m not all that interested in anything He has to say. The universe is roughly 13.8 billion years old (well this part of it anyways), Earth is 4.5 billion years old and we evolved from earlier primates. Anyone who insists otherwise, particularly as a requirement of salvation, is convincing me of the opposite. I came from a YEC background and I was nine years old when I realized my religious leaders were lying to me.
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Feanor2
Guest
I can understand why someone who thinks sola scripture and American Evangelicanism is the face of Christianity would leave.
It’s building your faith on a shallow base. It’s all intellectually surface.
As an aside: I can’t stand Christian rock.
It’s building your faith on a shallow base. It’s all intellectually surface.
As an aside: I can’t stand Christian rock.
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Pattylt
Guest
When there arose Christian Death Metal bands, I was assured of my belief that the Christian Music industry was only in it for the money. I have a feeling that some of these Christians stars…not all…saw the hypocrisy and the conflict with their conscience became too much. Something had to give.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Um, “death metal” is often understood in recent years as a musical style rather than always having death-y themes. And in any event, Christianity has a huge focus on death, which I recently pointed out on a goth thread.When there arose Christian Death Metal bands, I was assured of my belief that the Christian Music industry was only in it for the money.
There’s nothing wrong with musicians who want to play death metal deciding that they would like to explore Christian themes rather than Satanic or other “black” themes, and there’s nothing wrong with them stating that fact so that consumers of metal music can know what they’re buying into.
“Christian death metal” also isn’t typically part of the whole “Christian Music” concept. Most people who want to listen to “Christian Music” don’t like metal, period. Christian metal groups are pitching to Christian metalheads, of which there are many, and a lot of them are grown adults rather than teenage kids.
Obviously any band will try to market itself so it makes some money, but the idea of “Christian death metal” as being a money grab by the Christian music contingent is a bit far fetched. It’s not going to make them much money if it was.
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