My interpretation is that the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices re-instituted under the final Anti-Christ. The plans are already in the making, as there are among the Jews, people tracing their ancestry to the Levitical Priesthood, while others are re-creating the temple vessels needed for the sacrifices for use when the Temple is rebuilt. In the current situation it seems impossibly far-fetched, yet there it is. Hard to say how Islam would react.My interpretation is that Islamic refugees will one day takeover the Vatican. At that time, the one-world religion of the Anti-Christ will be ushered in. It will be the new sensation of hybridization of Islam and Christianity…Chrislam.
Hi!Your post makes no sense. If a hybrid Christian/Islam religion is instilled by the anti-christ then surely we will be in trouble. It will come.
(St. Matthew 24:23-24)23 ‘If anyone says to you then, “Look, here is the Christ” or, “He is there”, do not believe it; 24 for false Christs and false prophets will arise and produce great signs and portents, enough to deceive even the chosen, if that were possible.
Don’t think we can get more authoritative than this?…instead of saying it’s Church Doctrine, could you demonstrate through actual citing of text (i.e.: “Jesus wept;” John 11:35 vs. it says so in Romans 1:19)?
DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS said:3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their desserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.
Hi Patrick, your question here seems to be about how to deal with Islam but in your post you mentioned only Muslims. There is a difference here.I have a serious question about how a Catholic should deal with Islam.
Hi, Jim!Don’t think we can get more authoritative than this?
)The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter. (thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
But … I do want to say … that was a marvelous post. And I do want you to know, I do not have any hard feelings toward Muslims, and I wish them all the happiness in the world right where they are at.It hurts me to say this, but I believe that most Christians are going to Hell because of what the Qur’an says in surah 5:17: “They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary…” As I said before, I don’t want Christians to go to Hell, but I do believe that most of them will.
No I do not see you guys as hate mongers and I do believe the fear is sincere. It is understandable to seek the protect oneself and those we love, even if it is at the cost compromising what the Gospel teaches. I can’t speak for Jesus but I would rather think that he will forgive us for doing so, starting with me I hope. Of course America being the large country it is, harbours some racist hate mongers (to use your term) but I do not believe they are in this forum. It remains a minority; vocal yes but a minority nevertheless.I know what I sound like to you … a hate monger. But that isn’t what this is about. It is sincere fear for my fellow brother/sister Catholics and all the other christians around me, beside all the other fellow Americans.
There is a difference. In my country Christians are a minority but Muslims are an even smaller minority in US. There is a lot you can do and do not underestimate the power of the American dream, American values, America as an ideal. America has always been aspirational to the rest of the world. A Green card is still more valuable than a Platinum card. People still wants to come to America because of their dreams for their children. You just have to make sure that they are willing to give up that part of their identity incompatible with that dream. They must become American-Muslims: Americans who happen to be Muslims, not Muslims who happen to have a right to work in America.In fact in your situation you just proved to me what I have been saying is correct.
Hi, Jim!(Continued)
The problem encountered in Europe is a failure to integrate Muslims. This was originally due to a respect for pluralism in a multi-cultural society - some may say a misplaced respect… British (everyone retain their identity within a British way of life)… while the Scandinavians are moving faster to identify factors behind radicalisation and deal with them within the Muslim communities.
Muslims have been taught from young that their religion is a total way of life and is the best among all religions. But when they grow up they see the unavoidable conclusion that Muslims lag behind other religious groups and some respond by blaming others. This is just an example of a cultural factor leading to radicalisation. There are many other factors, many purely cultural, some stemming from the way Islam is organised/practiced and a few from the religion itself. And these factors sometimes differ with the host country.
The American model of integration has been rather more robust as the American identity takes precedence over any ethnic-religious origins one might have. The problem is not so much Americans who became Muslims but rather Muslims who become Americans. It is important that Muslims who did not grow up with American values can be Americanised or at least their children will be. By Americanised, I mean imbued with American values of tolerance, democratic decision-making, separation of church & state, etc. But what will you do with those who cannot or refused to be Americanised and find themselves on the wrong side of the socio-economic dice? Are the tools of the past still relevant? I don’t know but it is an answer Americans must decide where their values lead them.
There is a difference. In my country Christians are a minority but Muslims are an even smaller minority in US. There is a lot you can do and do not underestimate the power of the American dream… A Green card is still more valuable than a Platinum card. People still wants to come to America because of their dreams for their children. You just have to make sure that they are willing to give up that part of their identity incompatible with that dream. They must become American-Muslims: Americans who happen to be Muslims, not Muslims who happen to have a right to work in America.
We have our own model of integration in my own country but it got hijacked by corrupt political powers. Muslims in my country are instinctively tolerant but get confused or fearful when Saudi-influenced religious authorities tell them otherwise. A generation of political conditioning and education have also eroded our tradition of tolerance. But now broader minded Muslims in Malaysia and Indonesia are organising themselves to oppose the Wahabist thinking. I have faith in human nature and in the Holy Spirit and the night will pass. We just have to endure because as they say, the night is always the darkest before the dawn.
You are right fred to place your trust in the Holy Spirit but we only do that after doing all that we can. The question is what do you do up to that point: How do you imbue migrant Muslims with American values without betraying the symbolism of the Statue of Liberty and our common Gospel values?
Of course I can see your fear. But then didn’t John tell us the love drives out fear?Could you not see the fear of allowing a mosque to be built near Ground Zero?
Hi, Jim!Of course I can see your fear. But then didn’t John tell us the love drives out fear?
Each one of us has to decide how much we intend the Gospel to guide our actions. I cannot speak for you, only for myself. You make your own choice and it is not me you need to justify your decision to. There is a time and place for that. I too have to justify my own myself and that too is not to you.
No but then I am not answerable for how the Nazi respond to God. Or for the response of ISIS or anyone who persecute me, for that matter. Any more than the early Christians were answerable for those who threw them to the lions. I am only answerable to how I respond to God’s invitation to love and to a much smaller extent for my family and those close to me.Yes, we are Called to peace and Love… but do you truly believe that nazis, and others such as them, left to their own device, would simply yield to Love and understanding?
The reason why I am a Christian today is because some two millennia ago, bands of my ancestors in faith chose extinction with full trust in God rather than compromise the injunctions of Jesus and fight against extermination. Had those brave souls gave in to the fear that drives out God’s love in them, then there is no reason for any of us to be Christians today. And from the watering of their blood sprang the tree that became the Church under which we all shelter today. But should someone else come along and cut it down - burn every single chapel, seize every single school, profane every single altar - it does nothing more than bring us back to those days when we had nothing but our dependence on God.But do you truly believe that Christ’s Call is that Christians should face extinction rather than to fight against extermination?
Hi, Jim!No but then I am not answerable for how the Nazi respond to God. Or for the response of ISIS or anyone who persecute me, for that matter. Any more than the early Christians were answerable for those who threw them to the lions. I am only answerable to how I respond to God’s invitation to love and to a much smaller extent for my family and those close to me.
I am also not answerable for your response. My responsibility ends with my passing on the message of Jesus and if necessary persuade to the extent of the persuasive abilities God has given me. So, really it is not necessary to justify to me your response.
If you choose to accept the call to peace and love (your words) in words but not in action that is how you choose to respond. I am not in the position to say you are right or wrong. That reckoning is by someone else in another time and another place. And I really do not know what the judgement will be any more than I know what the judgement on my decision will be. I can only respond to God’s invitation in the way he led to me understand it.
The reason why I am a Christian today is because some two millennia ago, bands of my ancestors in faith chose extinction with full trust in God rather than compromise the injunctions of Jesus and fight against extermination. Had those brave souls gave in to the fear that drives out God’s love in them, then there is no reason for any of us to be Christians today. And from the watering of their blood sprang the tree that became the Church under which we all shelter today. But should someone else come along and cut it down - burn every single chapel, seize every single school, profane every single altar - it does nothing more than bring us back to those days when we had nothing but our dependence on God.
I am not advocating that only a hermit with no worldly attachment can be a true Christian. All I am saying is that nobody wants to be persecuted and nobody wants to live in fear. But if we were to be in that situation, the history of the Church tells us that the only legacy to leave behind is the stories of steadfastness to Gospel values. No matter the persecution, the Church survives, be it communist Poland, shogun Japan, or pagan Rome.
Still I do not think the Church in America is anywhere near to such persecution. And let us not ask for her to undergo such persecution. The choice is the way of the world or the way of Christ. The way of the world is easy and tempting, but those who live by the sword will die by the sword, or whatever other implement contrary to the Gospels one may choose to use. The way of the Church could mean integrating Muslims into the American way of life just as the Church in times past integrated pagans into the Church. The Viking terror did not end in their defeat in a world-ending conflagration but in their baptism. I believe the jidadhist threat to America will not end with the expulsion of Muslims from the US but rather when their children one day make their daily pledge to the flag with sincere American values in their hearts.
Jim, in the days of early Christianity one Emperor outlawed Christians, and the next Emperor let them be. It was an off and on situation. The Christians did not have part in how things would be run in the world, but rather were run by the world.Originally posted by jimkhong
The reason why I am a Christian today is because some two millennia ago, bands of my ancestors in faith chose extinction with full trust in God rather than compromise the injunctions of Jesus and fight against extermination. Had those brave souls gave in to the fear that drives out God’s love in them, then there is no reason for any of us to be Christians today.