Christian Rivalry Burns at Site of Jesus’ Tomb

[Lance]

What a shame Christian priests and monks can’t act like Christians!
Jerusalem - With big egos competing for sacred space and urgent claims that a miracle is imminent, Jerusalem’s latest religious conflict has all the makings of a classic Holy City conflagration. All, that is, except for the cast of characters: There is not a single Jew or Muslim involved.

Tensions are so bad between two of the six Christian denominations that share control of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre — by tradition the site of Jesus’ tomb — that some fear priests and pilgrims may come to blows over Easter.

The high point of Easter celebrations at the church is a ceremony known as the Miracle of the Holy Fire, during which candles are said to be lit by the miraculous intervention of the Holy Spirit in the shrine reputed to contain remains of the tomb. The event takes place on Orthodox Easter Saturday, falling this year on April 27. It typically attracts thousands of pilgrims.

The question of who enters the tomb to receive the fire is an ongoing cause of friction among the church’s resident sects, and this year tensions have been exacerbated by a series of physical altercations, here and in Bethlehem, that left monks and priests variously hospitalized, arrested and banned from the church.

forward.com/articles/12997/

 

[roanoker]

They’re going to have to send in old Jimmie Carter to broker a deal, I guess. Roanoker

 

[Ghoti]

Surreal.

The other fight between the Armenians and the Greeks had to be broken up by Palestinian police.

Whodathunk – Muslim peacekeepers in a Christian civil war.

What happened in 2002 that the Greek Orthodox alluvasudden cold-shoulders the Armenians?

I always figured that if any inter-Christian tensions popped up in the Holy Land, it would be between the Latins and everyone else. Only because that’s the way it always seems to go.

 

[brockmac]

This is just sad. I will continue to pray for a reunification of all who call on Christ. That we may be one even as the Father and the Son are One.

 

[Prayerjohn]

This is just sad. I will continue to pray for a reunification of all who call on Christ. That we may be one even as the Father and the Son are One.

 

[pprimeau1976]

The question of who enters the tomb to receive the fire is an ongoing cause of friction among the church’s resident sects, and this year tensions have been exacerbated by a series of physical altercations, here and in Bethlehem, that left monks and priests variously hospitalized, arrested and banned from the church.

I don’t mean to make light of a serious situation but I can’t get out of my mind multiple priests going into the tomb like Laurel and Hardy going through a door.

 

[robert_ambrose]

now you know why the key to the church is in the hands of a muslim

 

[CreosMary]

Curious? Dear Friends of mine just returned from pilgrimage and spent Easter in Jerusalem and all the relevant Churches and Holy sites; no dramas or problems were seen or heard of by them!

 

[Mighty_Q]

now you know why the key to the church is in the hands of a muslim

It’s like when kids fight over toys-put it on top of the refrigerator.

 

[zab]

We went on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land two and a half years ago with members of our Catholic Parish. Our tour guide was a Christian (non-Catholic) Palestinian and our bus driver was a Muslim. We all got along great and had a wonderful time. This past year, our pastor led another pilgrimage to the Holy Land and specifically asked for the same tour guide and bus driver.

 

[Muzhik]

Curious? Dear Friends of mine just returned from pilgrimage and spent Easter in Jerusalem and all the relevant Churches and Holy sites; no dramas or problems were seen or heard of by them!

The reason is that they spent WESTERN Easter in Jerusalem. The Orthodox Churches use a different calendar; they’ll be celebrating Easter on April 27.

Our Lady of Soufanieh, please pray for us and for the unity of the Western and Eastern Churches.

<><

 

[Antonin]

The news media just loves a story like this one. Sadly, some of the folks who post on this web site do too. Whatever happened to the “do unto others as you would like them to do unto you” saying? Do you Catholics like it when there is a nasty, juicy news story about one of your priests? This event is absolutely inexcusable, I agree. But why keep mentioning it? I too pray for the Christian Church to reunite, however people of different faiths have different ideas about what that reuniting would consist of. Let’s concentrate on things that we all have in common as Christians rather than the differences.

 

[Lance]

The news media just loves a story like this one. Sadly, some of the folks who post on this web site do too. Whatever happened to the “do unto others as you would like them to do unto you” saying? Do you Catholics like it when there is a nasty, juicy news story about one of your priests? This event is absolutely inexcusable, I agree. But why keep mentioning it? I too pray for the Christian Church to reunite, however people of different faiths have different ideas about what that reuniting would consist of. Let’s concentrate on things that we all have in common as Christians rather than the differences.

I did not mean to imply that this was an Orthodox problem. I was just asking why Christian clerics can act like Christians. No, it does not bother me when the news media or people on these threads talk about Catholic priests who abuse kids. It was covered up far to long. Maybe the embarrassment of being in the news will make the priests and monks act like Christians.

 

[Muzhik]

This is one of the advantages of having a non-national church. The Orthodox all seem to be organized along national or ethnic lines. The Roman Church is not immune to that, but it’s not built into the culture.

<><

 

[Antonin]

I did not mean to imply that this was an Orthodox problem. I was just asking why Christian clerics can act like Christians. No, it does not bother me when the news media or people on these threads talk about Catholic priests who abuse kids. It was covered up far to long. Maybe the embarrassment of being in the news will make the priests and monks act like Christians.

Dear “Lance” (original poster),
Well, I really did not want this whole posting incident to come to this. Sadly, however, I wonder if this whole story that lead to the post may not be misleading. You provide a link to this event from “The Jewish Daily Forward” the date of the article in their publication is March 20, 2008. They say that the fight that broke out between the Greek Orthodox priest and the Armenian priest was last month. By stating “last month”, anyone would think that they mean that the incident occurred around February 20th. However, here is a web address to where there is a story about that incident libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_philosophy&Number=295981782
As you can see, this story was published on December 27, 2007, by someone calling themselves AFP. December 27, 2007 is not last month from March 20, 2008. Now, this web site and AFP got the story from Breitbart. Out of curiosity, I took a look at this Breitbart web site. In addition to this story about the conflicting priests, they have a story there about "Moses being “high on drugs”. I really don’t want to look any further. I know that if I did I would become “enlightened” but I just wanted to write to you first.
Priests are human beings as you and I are. They certainly have their failings. What is the motive for dwelling on it though? The news media seems to have their finger on the trigger as they look for negative stories to report on about Religion. There was a case of a elderly Catholic priest, a Father Geoghan, who was convicted of fondling some boy a number of years ago. It seemed that during the proceedings, even though he had difficulty remembering, it came out that he touched someone on the buttocks in a swimming pool. He was convicted and sentenced to a maximum security prison. He was murdered there. (Why was he put into such a dangerous situation?) The New York Post had blaring headlines about this with such language as “Pervert Priest”. To me this is just very sad. But it is sad that some really want to go after the priests in this way.
One thing that our enemy wants is for us to be in conflict with each other. What better way is there than to have a “my church is better than yours” attitude. It seems like some of the folks who chimed in and posted about this story have this attitude. The Archpriest Seraphim Slobodsky, in his book The Law of God writes about how Jesus defeated Satan on the cross. Now Satan does his evil deeds from within the Church. I say that we do not give Satan this opportunity,

 

[patrick457]

What a shame Christian priests and monks can’t act like Christians!
Jerusalem - With big egos competing for sacred space and urgent claims that a miracle is imminent, Jerusalem’s latest religious conflict has all the makings of a classic Holy City conflagration. All, that is, except for the cast of characters: There is not a single Jew or Muslim involved.

Tensions are so bad between two of the six Christian denominations that share control of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre — by tradition the site of Jesus’ tomb — that some fear priests and pilgrims may come to blows over Easter.

The high point of Easter celebrations at the church is a ceremony known as the Miracle of the Holy Fire, during which candles are said to be lit by the miraculous intervention of the Holy Spirit in the shrine reputed to contain remains of the tomb. The event takes place on Orthodox Easter Saturday, falling this year on April 27. It typically attracts thousands of pilgrims.

The question of who enters the tomb to receive the fire is an ongoing cause of friction among the church’s resident sects, and this year tensions have been exacerbated by a series of physical altercations, here and in Bethlehem, that left monks and priests variously hospitalized, arrested and banned from the church.

forward.com/articles/12997/

Whoa. They haven’t stopped doing that yet? The different churches’ been going on like that for, like, years and years in the Holy Sepulchre.

 

[Lance]

Antonin,
Geoghan was far from a person who just happend to touch a boy in a swimming pool.

Over a 30-year career in six parishes, Geoghan was accused of sexual abuse by more than 130 people. Charges were brought in Cambridge, Massachusetts, concerning accusations of a molestation that took place in 1991. Geoghan was defrocked in 1998. He was found guilty in January 2002 of indecent assault and battery for grabbing the buttocks of a 10-year-old boy in a swimming pool at the Waltham Boys and Girls Club in 1991, and was sentenced to nine to 10 years in prison.

The trial included testimony from the victim; from a psychiatrist, Dr. Edward Messner, who treated Geoghan for his sexual fantasies about children from 1994-1996; and from Archbishop Alfred C. Hughes, who testified that he banned Geoghan from the swimming club after a complaint that he had been proselytizing and had had prurient conversations there.

After initially agreeing to, and pulling out of, a $30 million settlement with 86 of Geoghan’s victims, the Boston archdiocese settled with them for $10 million, and is still negotiating with lawyers for other victims. The most recent settlement proposed is $65 million for 542 victims. The settlements are being made because of evidence that the archdiocese had transferred Geoghan from parish to parish despite warnings of his behavior. Evidence also arose, as a result of allegations against Geoghan, that the archdiocese displayed a pattern of shipping other priests to new parishes when allegations of sexual abuse were made.

Two other cases were charged against Geoghan in Boston’s Suffolk County. One case was dropped without prejudice when the victim decided not to testify. In the second case, two rape charges were dismissed by a judge after hotly contested arguments because the statute of limitations had run out. The Commonwealth’s appeal of that ruling was active at the time of Geoghan’s death, and remaining charges of indecent assault in that case were still pending at that time.

And just for the record, I don’t think the Roman Catholic Church is any ‘better’ than any other church although I do believe we are right in that the pope is the leader of the church and other things but ‘better’ no. I can’t find them now but I am sure I have read where Catholic priests and monks have been involved in the same type of behavior. It is my honest hope that this type of behavior will cease and if it takes us lay people talking about it and putting pressure on our clergy then so be it.

 

[zab]

And just for the record, I don’t think the Roman Catholic Church is any ‘better’ than any other church although I do believe we are right in that the pope is the leader of the church and other things but ‘better’ no. I can’t find them now but I am sure I have read where Catholic priests and monks have been involved in the same type of behavior. It is my honest hope that this type of behavior will cease and if it takes us lay people talking about it and putting pressure on our clergy then so be it.

It has been almost 20 years since Archbishop Hunthausen broke ground in setting up a sex-abuse policy and created review panels including Catholics and non-Catholics and consisted of therapists, attorneys, prosecutors, church-law experts, and priests. "They hear from accusers, review psychological evaluations of the alleged abusers, and listen to testimony from counselors. " The panel is headed by a bishop. And the panel makes recommendations to the Archbishop. In 2002, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops developed a unified policy and the policy of the Seattle Archdiocese was a model for the national policy.

On April 8-11, 2008, Archbishop Brunette, Archdiocese of Seattle , will be hosting the 2008 National Safe Environment Leadership Conference. Here is a quote:

The Catholic Church is participating in the largest child abuse prevention campaign in the history of the United States. We are now presented with a unique opportunity to use our resources and energy to fight child abuse on a greater level. Beyond the charter, beyond the audit and beyond the boundaries of our programs, we can unite together to protect all children. Through education, awareness and advocacy we can Move Beyond Compliance, Toward Conversion.

I just attended one of the “Safe Environment” sessions that all of us volunteers, ministers to the homebound, teachers and anyone having anything to do with children or vulnerable idividuals are required to attend. And not only the employees, but all of us who volunteer or are involved in various ministries required to have background checks.

I don’t know of any organization, civil or religious, that has done as much as the Catholic Church has done in recent decades to prevent sex abuse. It is sad that so many of our good priests have suffered unjustly as a result of these scandals.

 

[Muzhik]

Could we get back to the original topic?

 

[Ghoti]

Well, can anyone tell me why the Greek church is now feuding with the Armenians?