Christianity and The Truth

[ralphinal]

Again, this is assuming that the Bible alone is true.

Correct. What proof is there for any holy book?

Since I am Hindu, I am assuming you are talking about Hinduism.
It is a common misconception that Hinduism is “polytheistic.”
Most schools of Hinduism assert that there is one God. The multitude of “Gods” that one sees in Hindu iconography are actually the various ways that the One God shows Himself to us. There is no contradiction in saying that their is One God that shows Himself in many ways.

Again, it is an example of Christian misunderstanding (intentional or not) to say that Hinduism is “polytheistic” and therefore inferior.

I should have clarified. I dated a Hindu girl in college and had some Hindu Friends. I knew that and I am sorry that I misrepresented it.

Say that the “other” is somehow wrong or untrue makes it easier to maintain an attitude of superiority. That doesn’t make one’s position actually true.

So all answers are correct?

Why are you assuming that God showing Herself in more than one way is creating confusion and chaos? It seems to me that it is human misunderstanding of God’s ways that creates confusion and chaos

Well, it does contribute to it.

Again, your statement presupposes that there is only one way to know God.

As Arjun says in the 15th verse of the 10th Chapter of the Gita:

svayam evatmanatmanam vettha tvam purusottama
bhuttabhavana bhutesa deva deva jagat pate

O Supreme Person, Universal Father, Lord of all beings, Lord of the Universe, only You can know Yourself, by Your own Divine Potency

Then what does it matter?

 

[Neil_LA]

Correct. What proof is there for any holy book??

Exactly! That is what I’m trying to say! To say that one and one only is true denies the posibility that the fullness of truth could reside in more than one place at the same time

I should have clarified. I dated a Hindu girl in college and had some Hindu Friends. I knew that and I am sorry that I misrepresented it.

That’s quite alright. You can understand my desire to clarify?

So all answers are correct?

All answers that lead to God are correct. As Jesus said “By your fruits you shall know them”

Well, it does contribute to it.

Only if you are convinced that your way is correct to the exclusion of all others. Why do the various sects of Christanity fight each other? They all believe in the same Jesus and read the same (almost the same) Bible.
Why are there so many divergent beliefs? And so much discord?

 

[ralphinal]

Exactly! That is what I’m trying to say! To say that one and one only is true denies the posibility that the fullness of truth could reside in more than one place at the same time

Not Fullness: Truth can, but to be fully true, there can only be one answer.

That’s quite alright. You can understand my desire to clarify?

Yes, but I should not have made you feel the need.

All answers that lead to God are correct. As Jesus said “By your fruits you shall know them”

Only if you are convinced that your way is correct to the exclusion of all others. Why do the various sects of Christanity fight each other? They all believe in the same Jesus and read the same (almost the same) Bible.
Why are there so many divergent beliefs? And so much discord?

First part, yes by your fruits you shall know them. Second part, because humans are not good people.

 

[Neil_LA]

Then what does it matter?

It matters because only God knows the Fullness of God and God can reveal aspects of God in various times and places.

To say that “Now we know the Fullness of God” leaves no room for growth or the posibility that God might show us more of himself in some other time…

 

[ralphinal]

It matters because only God knows the Fullness of God and God can reveal aspects of God in various times and places.

To say that “Now we know the Fullness of God” leaves no room for growth or the posibility that God might show us more of himself in some other time…

Oh wait, we claim to have the Fullness of Truth about God on earth, not everything about God. there is a very big difference. Humans on earth can never fully comprehend God.

 

[Neil_LA]

Not Fullness: Truth can, but to be fully true, there can only be one answer.

But if God is Infinite how can any “answer” that we have in our limited minds not leave more questions?
.

First part, yes by your fruits you shall know them. Second part, because humans are not good people.

Another place where I think that the Bible and the Church are completely wrong.

People are not intrinsically bad. The evils that people commit are a result of ignorance and bad choises.

If people are created by God, how can anything created by God not be good?

 

[ralphinal]

Another place where I think that the Bible and the Church are completely wrong.

People are not intrinsically bad. The evils that people commit are a result of ignorance and bad choises.

If people are created by God, how can anything created by God not be good?

I never said that people are intrinsically bad, and neither does the Catholic CHurch, although some demoninations do. What the Church teaches is that we have a nature that causes us to drift towards selfish desires if left unchecked. That is why humans are bad people: they let themselves drift away.

 

[VociMike]

Yes…Well I contend that the claims of the Church and the Bible are untrue. So therefore it IS arrogance.

Contending something is not the same as establishing that thing. But obviously we’re just going around in circles here. You are set on believing the Church is false, and I am set on believing the Church is true. Not sure where we can go from there.

I’m curious, have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? If so, what parts of it do you contend are false?

 

[lynnareyno]

Originally posted by Neil LA
Again, if the Catholic faith were the true faith, what need would there be to be so violently engaged in missionary activity? What violent activities are you referring to?

Simply present your views and leave it to the other person to accept or not. I thought that that is what is/has been done.

Jesus makes it impossible to be compassionate to other people. Why/How?
He himself says “Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16: 15-16 NAB) Those who are given the truth properly and understandably and still refuse to believe it. But He does not tell people/Christians not to be compassionate ever, just the opposite. Condemnation belongs to God alone, not people. And actually I believe that God does not condemn anyone, people condemn themselves by choice.

To me that is not the image of loving God.
That is your opinion. God is love, but also justice and mercy. I trust that He will handle everyones salvation in complete fairness. We are also limited not only by our finite human minds, but by semantics. I believe that as a human if I can completely understand God then He isn’t really much of a God. To be the infiinte creator of the universe, etc. God must be beyond the creation’s complete and total understanding.
For example: My dog understands me when I say “sit”. “food” do you want to go for a walk/’ and a lot of other phrases . She know that when I get my car key that I am going out and she gets in her crate. Or when I make the coffee and turn the lights out that we are going up to bed. But if I tell her of my plans for next week or discuss my faith with her she doesn’t understand me at all. There is limited understanding between us, just like between people and God. We do the best we can with the information we have and the limits of our minds.

This is maybe a reason why Christianity is so full of violence and hatred and contempt of other traditions. I completely disagree with this statement. I find no violence,hatred or contempt in any of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Certainly some people who call themselves Christians or even Catholics may exhibit these things, but they are ( like all humans) flawed.

Since I am Hindu, I am assuming you are talking about Hinduism.
It is a common misconception that Hinduism is “polytheistic.”
Most schools of Hinduism assert that there is one God. The multitude of “Gods” that one sees in Hindu iconography are actually the various ways that the One God shows Himself to us. There is no contradiction in saying that their is One God that shows Himself in many ways.

Again, it is an example of Christian misunderstanding (intentional or not) to say that Hinduism is “polytheistic” and therefore inferior.

Thank you for clarifying Hinduism belief in God. I did not know the above. I appreciate the information.
It is good to have misunderstandings/misinformation cleared up for the betterment of human relationships. I will not argue against your beliefs, but have only tried to clear up misunderstandings that you have about mine. I have a tendency to get cranky when people tell me how wrong Catholicism is and then base their arguments on misunderstanding of those beliefs.

PEACE AND LOVE

 

[Neil_LA]

I’m curious, have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? If so, what parts of it do you contend are false?

All of it, but especially paragraphs 2357-2359.

But that’s a COMPLETELY separate issue.

The entire cathechism is a complete fabrication of deluded minds.

IMHO…

Ok, I admit I’m being a bit dramatic. I’m willing to say that it contains “Partial Truth”

But I believe that the “Fullness of Truth” resides only in the Vedic Literature. Specifically Srimad Bhagavadgita, Srimad Bhagavat Mahapuran and the devotional poetry of Mahaprabhu Sri Hit Harivansh.

I believe that the devotional poetry of Sri Hit Harivansh has the most complete and perfect description of Who God Is.

 

[Neil_LA]

lynnareyno:
Thank you for clarifying Hinduism belief in God. I did not know the above. I appreciate the information.
It is good to have misunderstandings/misinformation cleared up for the betterment of human relationships. I will not argue against your beliefs, but have only tried to clear up misunderstandings that you have about mine. I have a tendency to get cranky when people tell me how wrong Catholicism is and then base their arguments on misunderstanding of those beliefs.

PEACE AND LOVE

You’re welcome.

I am unable to quote your question about violent missionary activity.

For one, the violent conquest of America and the East by Spain and Portugal.

If this doesn’t count of violent missionary activity, I don’t know what does…

 

[Namesake]

Namesake-
You said:

First of all…Catholic do not demand anything from anyone. Catholics believe that our faith is true and other religions believe that their faith is true. Why does that make Catholics any more arrogant than others?

Because Catholics are so sure that their way is the one true way. Not many world religions spout that sort of exclusivity.

 

[VociMike]

But I believe that the “Fullness of Truth” resides only in the Vedic Literature. Specifically Srimad Bhagavadgita, Srimad Bhagavat Mahapuran and the devotional poetry of Mahaprabhu Sri Hit Harivansh.

I believe that the devotional poetry of Sri Hit Harivansh has the most complete and perfect description of Who God Is.

According to the standards of this thread, that would make Hinduism arrogant, would it not?

 

[VociMike]

Because Catholics are so sure that their way is the one true way. Not many world religions spout that sort of exclusivity.

I don’t believe this. I don’t believe “many world religions” don’t claim to have more truth than the others. I think the claim you put forth is really no more than “conventional wisdom”, which is usually not. It’s a claim who’s sole purpose is actually to beat up on Christianity.

Does Islam deny that it has the fullness of truth, or at least more truth than other faiths?

Does Judaism deny it (not cultural Judaism, but Orthodox, serious Judaism)?

Does Hinduism deny it?

Does Buddahism deny it?

Tell me a serious, ancient religion that claims that other religions have as much or more truth as it does. I’d like to hear about it.

 

[Namesake]

I don’t believe this. I don’t believe “many world religions” don’t claim to have more truth than the others. I think the claim you put forth is really no more than “conventional wisdom”, which is usually not. It’s a claim who’s sole purpose is actually to beat up on Christianity.

Does Islam deny that it has the fullness of truth, or at least more truth than other faiths?

Does Judaism deny it (not cultural Judaism, but Orthodox, serious Judaism)?

Does Hinduism deny it?

Does Buddahism deny it?

Tell me a serious, ancient religion that claims that other religions have as much or more truth as it does. I’d like to hear about it.

Read what His Holiness, the Dalai Lama has to say about this. Pretty cool stuff I believe.

 

[Neil_LA]

I don’t believe this. I don’t believe “many world religions” don’t claim to have more truth than the others. I think the claim you put forth is really no more than “conventional wisdom”, which is usually not. It’s a claim who’s sole purpose is actually to beat up on Christianity.

Does Islam deny that it has the fullness of truth, or at least more truth than other faiths?

Does Judaism deny it (not cultural Judaism, but Orthodox, serious Judaism)?

Does Hinduism deny it?

Does Buddahism deny it?

Tell me a serious, ancient religion that claims that other religions have as much or more truth as it does. I’d like to hear about it.

Various schools of Hinduism say that truth is contained in all religions.

God is absolute and so all forms of God are absolute.

All paths to God will reach the form of God they preach.

As for Buddhism, they don’t talk about God.

Abrahamic religions each believe that they are the only one and no one else is valid.

 

[Neil_LA]

According to the standards of this thread, that would make Hinduism arrogant, would it not?

No because I believe I said “I believe…”

Various other schools of Hinduism would completely disagree with me and that is completely ok.

 

[VociMike]

Various schools of Hinduism say that truth is contained in all religions.

Do they say that all religions have as much or more truth than does Hinduism? Does Hinduism claim that it is no better than any other religion?

Abrahamic religions each believe that they are the only one and no one else is valid.

What does that even mean, “no one else is valid”?

 

[Neil_LA]

Do they say that all religions have as much or more truth than does Hinduism? Does Hinduism claim that it is no better than any other religion?

What does that even mean, “no one else is valid”?

Hinduism is not one single thing, so one can’t say “it” says one thing…

Abrahamic religions each say that they contain the “fullness of truth” and no else does:

Judaim = The “Chosen” People (as opposed to the rest of humanity)

Christianity = God’s One and Only Incarnation on Earth

Islam = The Complete and Final Revalation of God to Humanity

Why do you think they each fight each other so much? Let alone the issue of them fighting other religions…

 

[Neil_LA]

For a good view of one acspect of Hinduism I quote from Swami Adiswaranand on Sri Ramakrishna Paramahans

" The greatest contribution of Sri Ramakrishna to the modern world is his message of the harmony of religions. To Sri Ramakrishna all religions are the revelation of God in His diverse aspects to satisfy the manifold demands of human minds. Like different photographs of a building taken from different angles, different religions give us the pictures of one truth from different standpoints. They are not contradictory but complementary. Sri Ramakrishna faithfully practiced the spiritual disciplines of different religions and came to the realization that all of them lead to the same goal. Thus he declared, “As many faiths, so many paths.” The paths vary, but the goal remains the same. Harmony of religions is not uniformity; it is unity in diversity. It is not a fusion of religions, but a fellowship of religions based on their common goal – communion with God. This harmony is to be realized by deepening our individual God-consciousness. In the present-day world, threatened by nuclear war and torn by religious intolerance, Sri Ramakrishna’s message of harmony gives us hope and shows the way."

Please forgive me for such a long quote, but I believe it highlights the difference between a Hindu approach to God and a Abrahamic approach.

Ramakrishna did practice other religions, but he never converted. He stayed a devotee of the Divine Mother.